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Old 06-28-2014, 08:07 AM   #101
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The problem that I see with how you describe it is ratings... IOW, when it is being broadcast, the program gets a rating which had a direct impact on the amount they can charge for the commercials... if Aero is recording that signal for their subscribers to view at a later date.... they are not picked up as viewers.... hence, less money to the OTA broadcaster... that is why cable has to pay for rebroadcasting.... it make up for the money they do not get from the businesses buying commercials...


I have watched some OTA shows on the computer... from the site that originally broadcast it... and it has commercials... so again, if you can watch Aero, they do not get that money....
Actually, I think Aereo subscribers can also watch live so I don't see it being different from OTA or DVRing an OTA show using Tivo. IIRC the rating that determines what they charge for commercials is done by surveys of viewers using set-top boxes of what is being watched and extrapolated to the total viewing population that could also be done for Aereo households so I don't think that is a difference.
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:29 AM   #102
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The problem that I see with how you describe it is ratings... IOW, when it is being broadcast, the program gets a rating which had a direct impact on the amount they can charge for the commercials... ....
I was wondering about 'ratings' when I wrote that, and now I'm still wondering.

How does the broadcaster get 'ratings' determined? How do they know what channel I'm watching, or if the TV is on and I'm in the other room not even watching? Or I record it and skip commercials?

AFAIK, ratings come from what must be a pretty small sample of people who have a box from Nielsen rating service. If they don't have the tech to follow recordings or other ways people now watch, I think that is their problem. IMO, that is no reason to 'punish' a consumer who can't get a TV antenna on their property, and make then a 'criminal'.

BTW, broadcasters are adapting. More and more, there are product placements, and/or commercials woven right into the show itself. American Idol does a lot of this - they give away Fords to the competitors, and several times a season, a little routine is written around them getting in/out of these cars. And the ever-present Coke-labeled glasses on the desks of the judges - I swear that J-Lo's lipstick is usually the exact shade of Coke-Can-Red.


RE - freeware: Yes, I guess some authors put xyz restrictions on distribution, I haven't read up much as most don't apply to me (but I think many/most can be distributed on a CD and the 3rd party can charge if someone will pay). Some authors do limit use to non-business applications (TeamViewer is one I use like that). I can see that as they use the single use as advertising for the full version, which they have ways to profit from. So as I said earlier, the SCOTUS decision is probably legally correct based on the stipulations of the broadcaster, but I don't see what the issue is exactly. And it is complicated by the fact that these are 'public' airwaves - the broadcaster uses that bandwidth exclusively for profit - so why can't the public use the distribution as they see fit? That makes it different than freeware that was developed without using exclusive public property.

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Old 06-28-2014, 08:43 AM   #103
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It seems Aereo just got tangled in the legal aspect. I think the courts decision hinges on the 1992 retransmission law, Retransmission consent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, that requires them to "negotiate" with content providers. The court had to rule against them ( not saying the law is correct ).

Hadn't really followed this much but as I understand it Aereo provides the same content as OTA commercials and all. Paid only channels are not available, A&E, History etc. It's really no different than any OTA other than they collect before they send it to you and that's what got them, because of the retransmission issue. Even though they used local antennas and you can't watch outside of the area you would normally receive OTA, they lost based on the wording of the law.

Here's a primer on Aereo ( I had look it up to see what it was )

What Is Aereo Streaming Video Service? FAQ - Aereo basics
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:09 AM   #104
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say goodbye...with 2-1/2 hours notice

I looked into Aereo but never pulled the trigger to subscribe. I'm on their mailing list.

This email just arrived (emphasis added):

Quote:
A Letter to Our Consumers: Standing Together for Innovation, Progress and Technology - An Update on Aereo

"The world hates change, yet it is the only thing that has brought progress." --Charles Kettering, inventor, entrepreneur, innovator & philanthropist

A little over three years ago, our team embarked on a journey to improve the consumer television experience, using technology to create a smart, cloud-based television antenna consumers could use to access live over the air broadcast television.

On Wednesday, the United States Supreme Court reversed a lower court decision in favor of Aereo, dealing a massive setback to consumers.

As a result of that decision, our case has been returned to the lower Court. We have decided to pause our operations temporarily as we consult with the court and map out our next steps. You will be able to access your cloud-based antenna and DVR only until 11:30 a.m. ET today. All of our users will be refunded their last paid month. If you have questions about your account, please email support@aereo.com or tweet us @AereoSupport.

The spectrum that the broadcasters use to transmit over the air programming belongs to the American public and we believe you should have a right to access that live programming whether your antenna sits on the roof of your home, on top of your television or in the cloud.

On behalf of the entire team at Aereo, thank you for the outpouring of support. It has been staggering and we are so grateful for your emails, Tweets and Facebook posts. Keep your voices loud and sign up for updates at ProtectMyAntenna.org - our journey is far from done.
Yours truly,

Chet Kanojia

Founder & CEO
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:08 AM   #105
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The spectrum that the broadcasters use to transmit over the air programming belongs to the American public and we believe you should have a right to access that live programming whether your antenna sits on the roof of your home, on top of your television or in the cloud.
I totally agree with this.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:42 AM   #106
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Decision due on Aereo case in the Supreme Court.

A Preview of Possible Outcomes in Aereo Supreme Court Case - Disruptive Competition Project


My guess: Vacatur/Remand... with the current SCOTUS, anyone's guess.

Whaddya think?
.................................................. ........................


...........................
On a broader scale... and looking back about 70 years...

From a time when flying was an adventure,
What Flying Looked Like in the 1940s | Autopia | WIRED and parents wanted their kids to be president, and being a member of the three branches of government was an honor... and most people basically knew the difference between right and wrong...
and the world was a much larger place...

to the present...

Where connectivity is instant, exposure is very wide, but very narrow, where morality and law is confused, where money trumps the common good, where religion prompts more deaths than accidents or criminal acts, where governments become frozen in inaction and civility is becoming a lost art...

How to make judgements? How to dissect the dense body of laws and interpret meaning when the construct is based on the framers, who are often paid by their benefactors to protect vested interests?

And in that small, small world... nations and peoples who cannot agree to the simplest, basic, innate rules of survival.... never mind the concept of intellectual property, patents or trademarks.

So looking back about 70 years, I am not sure whether I was smarter then than now... but then, at least, I had a pretty good idea about what was right, and what was wrong. Now, not so sure.

Oh yeah... and about the "flying"... No one I knew ever flew, except in the Armed Services. My dreams were about flying in the Waco Hadrian... after being allowed to sit in the "pilot's" seat at Otis AFB when I was a Boy Scout.
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:05 PM   #107
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At the risk of repeating myself, the elephant in the room in this discussion is the lack of competition in the area of cable TV and Internet services.

The lack of real competition frustrate people who see their monthly bills climbing. Worse, some new customer gets a special deal while long time loyal customers get shoved aside.

A trapped animal usually fights back.
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:14 PM   #108
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There are worries that this could mean even legally purchased content hosted on Dropbox or some other cloud service could be liable for infringement. Supposedly the decision was crafted narrowly, to only apply here, not be a precedent for other cloud distribution models.

A Fox Broadcasting lawyer charged that Dish Network's Sling service is a violation in light of this decision.

Sling used to be taking the analog output of a TV signal, re-digitizing it and then streaming it to the person who has paid for the service when they're not home.

You give these media companies an inch and they try to take a foot ...
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:40 PM   #109
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Actually, I think Aereo subscribers can also watch live so I don't see it being different from OTA or DVRing an OTA show using Tivo. IIRC the rating that determines what they charge for commercials is done by surveys of viewers using set-top boxes of what is being watched and extrapolated to the total viewing population that could also be done for Aereo households so I don't think that is a difference.

I can watch live TV from my cable, but that does not let cable get away without paying a fee...

I think the whole thing about the antenna was probably to get around the law... heck, I wonder if it really does anything at all... why would you need an antenna if you are getting thing over the internet (then again, I really do not know if they even used the internet to send the signal.... and I don't really care)...
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:45 PM   #110
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I looked into Aereo but never pulled the trigger to subscribe. I'm on their mailing list.

This email just arrived (emphasis added):

I think that the part where they say 'the cloud' is where the issue is.... if they record the program and send it to you at a later time.... it is not watching live... and THEY recorded it...
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:49 PM   #111
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There are worries that this could mean even legally purchased content hosted on Dropbox or some other cloud service could be liable for infringement. Supposedly the decision was crafted narrowly, to only apply here, not be a precedent for other cloud distribution models.

A Fox Broadcasting lawyer charged that Dish Network's Sling service is a violation in light of this decision.

Sling used to be taking the analog output of a TV signal, re-digitizing it and then streaming it to the person who has paid for the service when they're not home.

You give these media companies an inch and they try to take a foot ...

I do not have Sling.... but from what I have read, the recording of the show is on your own DVR.... at your own home (correct me if I am wrong)... that is a big difference if Dish recorded it at their location and streamed it to you at another time....


BUT, even if they did.... Dish PAYS to broadcast the shows...

I would think that the closer example would be the Comcast view on demand... I know that my sis can watch an OTA show at a different time of her choosing even if she did not record it on her DVR.... (maybe it is only cable... she is out of town so I cannot ask her)....
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:54 PM   #112
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Actually I think a big part of the decision was that Aereo walked like cable tv and quacked like cable tv. Originally cable tv (when in small towns) took OTA signals and sent them to subscribers in the small town (typically the small town was outside the range of TV signals without significant antenna expense). As cable expanded into metro areas congress provided two options carry all tv signals in the market (including the shopping and religious channels, or pay to transmit some. This then became pay to retransmit.). But since Aereo looks like old style cable tv it is cable tv for legal purposes, thus the need to pay to retransmit.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:49 PM   #113
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The statement from Charles Kettering founder of Aereo, re the decision and plans for the future:

http://view.email.aereo.com/?j=fec71...7561017877&r=0

And the website that stated the Aereo position:
Aereo | Protect My Antenna

All of the previous decisions that led to the lower court's 2013 decision to allow Aereo to broadcast, are listed, and presented in their entirety. Not a simple yes or no, but citations of decisions that directly and indirectly affected the 2013 judgement in favor of Aereo.

Also interesting is the list of corporations that brought the case to the Supreme Court... as well as a complete listing of the amicus briefs that were presented by lawyers, trademark authorities, scholars, district courts and recognized experts on intellectual property law.

The dissenting SCOTUS judges may be an indication that remanding the case may mean this is still a work in progress.

A reading of the most recent (prior cases won by Aereo) is fascinating... all stems from this:
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:14 PM   #114
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At the risk of overdoing this discussion, I found that after reading the Aereo Respondent's brief of March 16 2014... that the question before the court was much more complicated that what we see and hear about the case. The heart of the issue was not the copyright law, but the Public Offering factor, and prior decisions that go back to the beginning of wide area transmission, where Community Antennas were legally permitted to extend broadcast range, when cable TV had not been stretched to outlying areas.

At a time when the news we receive from TV or newspapers is truncated and directed to a distracted public, the decisions of the Supreme Court are accepted as judgements from the wisest solons. The long range implication may well go beyond the wisdom to foresee the pace of technology. Perhaps our aging seats of power could use a semester of singularity to help in understanding the structuring of the cloud.

http://protectmyantenna.org/pdf/2_ae...%20FILED-1.pdf
Argument begins on Page 2 (PDF page 14).
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:46 PM   #115
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It looks like our communications regulatory framework needs to be updated. There were many issues when satellite was barred from re-transmitting local OTA programming, this was not resolved in the courts but by changing the law.

Funny, as a society we criticize TV programming and portray it in a most negative way, but then get angry when even the slightest barriers affect our access.
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:32 PM   #116
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It looks like our communications regulatory framework needs to be updated. There were many issues when satellite was barred from re-transmitting local OTA programming, this was not resolved in the courts but by changing the law.

Funny, as a society we criticize TV programming and portray it in a most negative way, but then get angry when even the slightest barriers affect our access.
Not a slight barrier. If the decision went the other way, this could have accelerated cord-cutting. The broadcast networks threatened to stop over the air broadcasting.

Every couple of years, the networks have some kind of impasse when its time to renegotiate retransmission fees with a big cable system or satellite TV. So for a couple of weeks, they warn that such and such a system could lose ABC or CBS. They air out this possibility in public to pressure both sides.

And it's usually the threat of losing a big event, like the NFL playoffs or the start of a new season of some popular show, that finally leads to an agreement. The content companies are always raising fees and the cable and satellite cos are trying to get the lowest prices.

But you know in the end, we always get price increases on our bills.


As for streaming away from the home, that's something they negotiate too. For instance, Comcast can stream certain channels on iPads but not all. They can do the same for some On Demand content, but not all. It's all a matter of how much money changed hands.

Same thing with stuff like WatchESPN, HBO Go, etc.

Me, I just use my Vulkano, which is a cheaper Sling box clone and I can use it anywhere in the world whereas the official sanctioned streaming apps. don't work outside the US (though there are ways around it).

Content companies have to also protect foreign rights, their home video business, etc., so they put all these restrictions, in order to monetize the different distribution methods of the same content.

So if you watch some show on TV, you pay. Watch the same show online, you better be paying. Want to watch it again on DVD or Blu Ray, you pay again. Want to watch it while on vacation overseas, you pay again, only if the rights to that particular show and episode has beeb sold.

I remember going on a trip to Sicily right before the season 1 finale of Game of Thrones. I would have to wait to return from vacation to watch it on my DVR. Or I could have downloaded the torrents and watched it during some down time in my vacation. I've paid a lot of money for HBO over the years (subscribed to it for over 10 years straight, even bought some box sets). But they'd have wanted me to wait to watch.
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:42 AM   #117
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... The broadcast networks threatened to stop over the air broadcasting. ...
I also heard of this recently. It makes sense in a way:

Only Seven Percent of TV Households Rely on Over-the-Air Signals, According to CEA Study - CEA


But I really have to wonder, switching to digital OTA was a huge expense and trouble and disruption, and that just happened a few years ago. If they wanted to drop out, wouldn't that have been a great time to do it?

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Old 06-29-2014, 12:40 PM   #118
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I also heard of this recently. It makes sense in a way:

Only Seven Percent of TV Households Rely on Over-the-Air Signals, According to CEA Study - CEA


But I really have to wonder, switching to digital OTA was a huge expense and trouble and disruption, and that just happened a few years ago. If they wanted to drop out, wouldn't that have been a great time to do it?

-ERD50
Of course the switch was delayed a number of years from when it was first supposed to happen. Now one thing before the FCC is to pay broadcasters to turn their channels in in for money so that the frequencies can be used for cell phones. Of course the TV channels are about the best frequencies for penetrating buildings etc, so the cell companies want them. Interestingly the white space usage of unoccupied channels really benifts rural areas as you can use the unused frequencies for broadband internet access without having to string wires as far. (If you go to the white space database you find areas west of San Antonio where you have most channels free.
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:16 PM   #119
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The reach of the broadcast networks is still greater than most cable networks.

They're on all the cable systems and they also reach millions who use antennas.

Plus, they were awarded a lot of valuable spectrum in the conversion to digital, some of which some stations have leased to other parties. For instance, in the SF area, there are sub stations dedicated full time to ethnic programming.

I think it was an empty bluff. What they might have done was to set up their own antenna arrays if Aereo won the case. That would also give them leverage against cable when renegotiating transmission fees.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:09 PM   #120
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The reach of the broadcast networks is still greater than most cable networks.

They're on all the cable systems and they also reach millions who use antennas.
.
Note that other coverage I have seen suggests that only 7% of TV viewers now view broadcasts off air.
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