BooBooBear saw sicko and is looking at his bill from the cardiologist and is sicko.

[dumpster56]

Like him or hate him sure is a must see. Done very well, I would leave your feelings about Moore at the door. It is an eye opener.

Now for my bill and I have great insurance, these mothaEfhetrys don't want to pay for a procedure that the doctor did at the visit last month.

The movie is right on point with my situation!

 

[Martha]

I will eventually see it. I have never seen a Micheal Moore movie. The WSJ today says good job on the problems with health care for the middle class in the US, not such a good job when reviewing other countries as he tends to have rose colored glasses as far as what is available elsewhere.

 

[Zoocat]

I saw "Sicko" this afternoon and was very impressed. It's the best of his documentaries. But it is a polemic and no one should be under the impression that it is an unbiased look at the health care insurance industry. The parts about France are unrealistic because he does not consider the fact that France's government is, even more than ours, way over committed with future entitlements for the retired. I don't know if the portrait of Canada is accurate or not.

What is important about the documentary is the portrait of our own country.Moore's documentation of the "dumping" of homeless elderly at the shelters from Kaiser Permanente is heart breaking. In relation to this inhumantity, his question, "Who are we?" resonates quite vividly to me. As our country will struggle mightily to pay Medicare for all of us boomers, we should be very interested in the state of our health care system.

There are parts that make you ashamed of our system and that made me, for one, shed tears for the human hardships endured by fellow Americans.

 

[mountaintosea]

There are parts that make you ashamed of our system and that made me, for one, shed tears for the human hardships endured by fellow Americans.

I felt the same way when I thought about the Cannes Film Festival showing this film. Not to mention the woman who died on the emergency room floor completely ignored by one and all, recently. Pathetic really. But I laughed instead because the public here has bought the whole enchilada. We are led around by the nose. What I keep thinking about is the statement by one Frenchman that the French government is afraid of it's people whereas here, the people are afraid of our government. It rings true. Good film.

 

[TromboneAl]

All the reviews are great. Will it make a difference?

 

[maddythebeagle]

I have seen all of his work prior to this....I thought his last one Far. 911 was pretty stupid...he had a few tv shows also, The Awful Truth was pretty funny...Yeah, he is a liberal and can simply hit you over the head at times...

 

[Gumby]

I just came back from seeing Sicko and I agree with Old Babe -- the question "Who are we?" is a very powerful one.

All my life, I have believed that ours is the very best country in the world, the "shining city upon the hill" that John Winthrop preached about. I have always had confidence that if something needed to be done, the US could do it better than anyone else. And I have always believed, to steal a line often misattributed to de Tocqueville, that our country is great because our people are good.

Yet this movie made me rethink those fundamental premises. How can a great country with good people have such a truly awful health care system? Who could possibly justify dumping a disoriented indigent patient on the sidewalk next to a busy street because she had no health insurance. Who could possibly think it right to refuse treatment and allow a child to die because her mother took her to an emergency room that was not "in network" for her insurance plan? Why should we tolerate a system where a 22 year old woman now has untreated metastisized cervical cancer because the insurance company doesn't believe that someone that young could have cervical cancer and therefore won't pay. The entire system is madness.

While Moore may have sugarcoated the Canadian, British, French and Cuban health care systems, they appear to be on the right path -- everyone in the country can get decent basic health care. Surely we Americans can do even better if we set our minds to it.

Unfortunately, as the film also points out, the chances of changing things for the better appears to be remote. Politicians of both parties have been bought and paid for by the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries, both of which have every economic incentive to keep things exactly as they are. As the American woman living in France noted, the French government is afraid of, and therefore responsive to, its people. In America, the people are now afraid of the government (for good reason, in my opinion).

In sum, I found the movie to be a powerful indictment of the system. It is difficult to feel proud of your country after seeing it.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

It is difficult to feel proud of your country after seeing it.

Thats pretty much the case with most michael moore movies. Having seen them all, I found them to contain about 50% absolute BS slanted to bolster his point, 25% somewhat correlative material thats been fudged or had some important pieces excluded, and 25% actual good content. A lot of faint implications.

But its funny how all of them are wound up to make you feel bad about being an american.

But maybe we should...at least a little bit. To not have the best healthcare, education and poverty levels in the world is...ridiculous.

 

[dumpster56]

Thats pretty much the case with most michael moore movies. Having seen them all, I found them to contain about 50% absolute BS slanted to bolster his point, 25% somewhat correlative material thats been fudged or had some important pieces excluded, and 25% actual good content. A lot of faint implications.

But its funny how all of them are wound up to make you feel bad about being an american.

But maybe we should...at least a little bit. To not have the best healthcare, education and poverty levels in the world is...ridiculous.

Not sure , I left my feelings for him as a person at the door. What the movie said to me was that we are really in deep stuff. I was at my pool yesterday and was speaking to a neighbors father 64 YO wife is 61, he is just getting back on his feet after 8 years of hell. Lost his house after he had a heart attack and stroke, wife has diabetis, and kidney failure which now has her on kidney dyalisis. She is stil working but can hardly get out of bed in the morning as he told me. She cries before she leaves for work. Oh she is doing it to pay off the medical bills that they incured when he got sick AND THOUGHT HE HAD INSURANCE! the company he was working for had stopped paying the premium and was uninsured when he ended up with bypass surgery at 2am after his heart attack, then the stroke a week after the surgery. I was dumbfounded. I had just seen the movie and run into this sweet older couple and did not know what to say. He is a cardiac cripple, he is now using the VA hospital system he spent 8 years in the service. His bills were over 300,000 dollars, ICU care the surgery. All happened so quick and emergent. When he was going home from the hospital was when he found out that his company had not paid the premiums. Lawyers and such found that ultimatly he and his estate were finacially responsible. They are very proud midwestern americans and you could tell by his story. They did everything to pay the bills he however is not able to work anymore. His wife is also now at the point of not being able to work. they went bankrupt after losing the house and moving in with their daughter.

It really is time for a march on washington. 10 million strong!

 

[Zoocat]

They did everything to pay the bills he however is not able to work anymore. His wife is also now at the point of not being able to work. they went bankrupt after losing the house and moving in with their daughter.

It really is time for a march on washington. 10 million strong!

BBBear, your story exactly parallels the elderly couple in Sicko who went bankrupt after the husband's heart attack. They had to move into the spare room with their children. I'll bet this starts to happen more and more to the middle and upper middle classes as our generation ages. When people other than the sick began to be really inconvenienced by the lack of universal health insurance, THEN we will see a 10 million march on Washington.

 

[farmerEd]

BBBear, your story exactly parallels the elderly couple in Sicko who went bankrupt after the husband's heart attack. They had to move into the spare room with their children. I'll bet this starts to happen more and more to the middle and upper middle classes as our generation ages. When people other than the sick began to be really inconvenienced by the lack of universal health insurance, THEN we will see a 10 million march on Washington.

As much as I would like to think that the reason we will end with universal care is because of a desire on the part of the politicians(and people who already have coverage) to do what is right (i.e. figure out a way to pay for care for everyone), we will get universal care, but we will get it because big business is waking up to the idea and they would like nothing better than to stop providing it to their employees (who can blame them with costs going up 10-15% per year every year)...

When corporate america finally decides they want it, they will hire the right lobbyists, buy the right politicians, and *voila* it will come to pass.

So , it will be for the wrong reason, but ultimately we will get it.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Canada has its flaws, too.

Health care is rationed. Your access is determined by someone else. As I understand it, diagnosis and elective procedures are low priority. What this means is that someone may have to wait too long to be diagnosed for cancer and die waiting. I have seen articles to this effect in the Calgary Herald. A friend took his infant into an emergency room and had to wait all day for access to medical service. He was told matter-of-factly by the nurse he finally saw that some children die while waiting this way. People needing joint replacement must wait a year or two and often wind up going to the Great Satan for service. My US doctor wanted me to have a colonoscopy immediately after a recent check-up. As I am paying into the Alberta health care system, I inquired about such a procedure in Alberta. I was told that as this was diagnostic, I would have to wait at least two years. I had it done back home.

From what research I have done, systems such as Costa Rica's, Panama's and Mexico's, where there is a mix of public and private health care available--public with public health insurance, private with cash or private health insurance (typically traveler's insurance), look the best to me. I have read that Cuba's system will hit foreigners with a bunch of unnecessary stuff--but it is reasonably priced. The cost of private health care in Costa Rica appears to be close to the US for emergency service to tourists, according to a friend whose mother broke her hip there several years ago. (The mom's hip is fine. Her faculties are failing, however.)

Looking forward to seeing this Moore flick. If I can get the wife to see it, she may be more inclined to let us retire south of the border.

 

[CuppaJoe]

I arrived at the ER with a 90% blockage of a coronary artery (LAD, "the widow-maker") after being told for years that patients like me don’t have heart disease and cannot be referred to Cardiology. I found out later that there was something on my EKG that only a cardiologist would be able to interpret. At the six-week appointment after a stent was placed, I asked my newly-acquired cardiologist how would I know if it happens again, symptoms? He said, "yes, symptoms are all we have to go by." Kaiser is my HMO and OMG, my joints need attention.

 

[windsurf]

sicko

I'm glad I searched the title before starting a new thread. I may take DW to see it this evening. Preaching to the choir though for me (med defense att'y for 25 years). I say wtf is everybody waiting for? We pay collectively for highways, dams, military, congressman and senators who showboat the issue du jour. The cozy relationships between the guaranteed winners in the present scheme amount to socialism on the backs of those who are not on the receiving side of the equation anyway (i.e. stacked deck). Let's wake up.

 

[ERD50]

Science Friday did a show on Health Care a while back. Had a panel of experts, rehashing the issues. At one point, the host (Ira Flatow) interrupts and asks very bluntly:

"Someone must be doing this right. Which country has a system that we could just emulate? Let's pick one and do it".

Dead air.

Then some stumbles, fumbles about picking the best of several systems, and that many in the US (ones that already have good coverage) would be unhappy with some aspects of those systems, etc.

It's screwed up in some ways, but fixing it may not be very easy.

-ERD50

 

[dumpster56]

10 million person march on washington on labor day!

Health care for all americans.

Time to start a movement! A summer blow out in DC!!!

 

[samclem]

Great idea. See if you can get everyone "free" food, too! Everyone needs houses--let's demand those while we are there! This is super!

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
Why didn't anyone think of this before?

 

[AltaRed]

Ed's comments about the Canadian health care system are true in a small minority of cases. Calgary's health care system is overburdened because of the tremendous population growth in the last few years. That is not typical of most Canadian centres. There are long waiting lists especially for diagnostics which is a real shame because diagnostics can catch medical problems early, but urgent health care cases get moved up the queue. People who need emergency treatment generally get it right away. There are always exceptions and it is those that get the press. I am in queue for cataract surgery this fall (about a 5-6 month wait in Calgary's overburdened system - but less in other less burdened centers). The mother of a friend of mine broke a hip not long ago and she got surgery within 24 hrs for a hip joint.

FWIW, several reviews of Sicko from a variety of Canadian and European sources have indicated that Sicko got the descriptions about non-American health systems about right. The biggest complaints from reviewers were about omissions rather than errors.

I spent several years in the American health system over the last 20 years. For those who can afford it, it is a great system. I always got what I wanted in a relatively short period.....at significant cost. The primary issue with the American system in my view is the horrendous level of administrative expense. It siphons off a lot of dollars that could be better spent providing less costly health care. A system of standardization for every health procedure needs to be put in place to cut overhead expenses dramatically.

 

[farmerEd]

Great idea. See if you can get everyone "free" food, too! Everyone needs houses--let's demand those while we are there! This is super!

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
Why didn't anyone think of this before?

Hey Sam, can you point me to the posters here on ER where they believe that national health care would be "FREE"? Do you really think one-liners like your post add anything to the debate?

I got news for you, if we get nationalized health care it won't be FREE. Just like the trillions of dollars wasted by the military aren't FREE, and the national highway system isn't FREE and public school system isn't FREE, and Medicaid and Medicare isn't FREE and police department coverage isn't FREE and fire departments aren't FREE.

Now if we could just get back the estimated $1,400,000,000,000 we have or will piss away in IRAQ, we could have our FREE national health care.

 

[F-One]

DW and I saw Sicko. There are a number of good points, I think the biggest point is politicians aren't going to do anything without a massive push from the voters. Only when people unite to push this issue will it override the insurance and medical profession lobbyists influence. (As an example, the recent change of heart of a few republican senators support for the Iraq situation - all are up for re-election next year and are they're re-election is in question based on poles).

I can't imagine why anyone who is on this board would be against a universal health care (except for those who work for the health insurance or big pharma industries)- a guaranteed health coverage is certainly a major issue for all who are retired and those who plan to.

 

[dumpster56]

Hey Sam, can you point me to the posters here on ER where they believe that national health care would be "FREE"? Do you really think one-liners like your post add anything to the debate?

I got news for you, if we get nationalized health care it won't be FREE. Just like the trillions of dollars wasted by the military aren't FREE, and the national highway system isn't FREE and public school system isn't FREE, and Medicaid and Medicare isn't FREE and police department coverage isn't FREE and fire departments aren't FREE.

Now if we could just get back the estimated $1,400,000,000,000 we have or will piss away in IRAQ, we could have our FREE national health care.

I for one have tried to stay out of political threads these days here, however saw the movie and was impressed. Now for sams one liners, I really wonder why he would be against a march of some magnitude to washington to deliver the worthless politicians here in america a wake up call!!

I am ready to go to washington on Labor Day. Anyone else? The fact that we allow the health care system to be run for profit is a crime.

Screw the HMO CEOs! Wake up america take back our country!

 

[AltaRed]

A national universal health care system could be funded via a 'managed' account separate from the general account with the source of revenue being like a FICA component in the corporate and personal tax system. IOW, it should be transparent so that the users (general public at large) know how much of their taxes is required to support it. And a 'financial statement' would be published each year with performance benchmarks showing how well the system is working and where the money is spent.

 

[Meadbh]

I am ready to go to washington on Labor Day. Anyone else? The fact that we allow the health care system to be run for profit is a crime.

Call the Institute for Healthcare Improvement (Institute for Healthcare Improvement: Home). They have been coming around to the conclusion that a universal health care system is the only way to go. While they work at the policy level, sometimes a critical mass of public demand can add the spark for change.

 

[samclem]

I got news for you, if we get nationalized health care it won't be FREE.

It's not news to me. On the other hand, when an individual receiving a service is insulated from its true cost, the situation is ripe for artificial shortages/rationing. BTW, this de-linking of the patient from the cost of the services is also a problem with the present US health care system.

I might be strongly in favor of a march if anyone could describe exactly what result the demonstration is intended to accomplish. End the employer-based insurance (actually--payment) system ? (yes!). Socialized medicine ("single payer") with no allowance for the free market option? (no, thanks). I'm not sure "waking up the politicians" is really smart, unless we know what they might do once they stumble out of bed. Some of the "good ideas" are clearly worse (IMO) than the present , very flawed, patchwork.

 

[farmerEd]

It's not news to me. On the other hand, when an individual receiving a service is insulated from its true cost, the situation is ripe for artificial shortages/rationing. BTW, this de-linking of the patient from the cost of the services is also a problem with the present US health care system.

Kind of like that abortion we have going on in Iraq?...I for one think that everyone should get a bill each month for their full cost of the previous months war, including the future cost for caring for the families and injured left behind during the month...wonder how long the war would continue when people suddenly realized it wasn't FREE.

Then again, there is always plenty of money for war...