Buy-ology

[Zathras]

Teach basic logic classes in elementary schools.
When people actually have a better understanding of faulty arguments, they can will be much less likely to fall prey to it.

 

[happy2bretired]

This thread reminds me of our Chicago visit. My daughter always wants Cinnabons when going through airports. You know that smell that always grabs you as you walk through... Her nose was being marketed again on this trip. She bought one and said that it didn't taste as good this time - the smell was much better and less fattening. I hope she remembers that for her next trip.

 

[Amethyst]

I get the impression that Kdyounge isn't nearly as worried about her own ability to resist neuromarketing, as she is about its effects on the population at large, especially when it comes to marketing candidates or policies.

I contend that battle was lost quite a while ago (but will not bolster my argument, as I don't want to be censured for going political in the forum).

Amethyst

Unless you have some past history of addiction (gambling, etc) or para-addiction (excess shopping, etc) I wouldn't worry about it. ...ultimately you are the one deciding whether or not to put your hand in your pocket. These days I let most of this advertising BS just wash over me.

.

 

[Nords]

He's not writing a book instead of putting this expertise to work for MegaCorps, he's writing a book (not his first, either) in addition to doing that. What a silly question anyway! Who would publish a book that was written by an unknown, or someone who had conspicuously failed at the subject matter? If you want a book on investing, whose name will you look for on the cover, mine or John Bogle's?

I've learned a bit about writing books and finding publishers who'll take on unknown authors.

If his techniques are so good then he'd make far more money spending his time on applying them for big companies than he would on selling books to libraries for puny royalties. These books don't just spit themselves out, and if he's writing about it instead of doing it then there might be a reason for the suboptimal (and perhaps uneconomic) use of his time-- and the reason might be that the buy-ology tactics don't work as effectively as he's hoped.

I find that to be a bit ironic for a marketer.

 

[HFWR]

...

 

[Martha]

My guess is that worries about "neuromarketing" are way overblown. Remember when everyone was talking about subliminal messages in advertising? Well it turns out that the whole idea had very little evidence to back it up.

subliminal - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

I worry more about messages that are not subliminal. That are incessant and in your face. The messages that you need a nice house, a nice car, a certain type of job, etc. to be happy.

 

[kyounge1956]

I get the impression that Kdyounge isn't nearly as worried about her own ability to resist neuromarketing, as she is about its effects on the population at large, especially when it comes to marketing candidates or policies.

I contend that battle was lost quite a while ago (but will not bolster my argument, as I don't want to be censured for going political in the forum).

Amethyst

You're right. I already use most of the defenses suggested by T-Al, but how many other people do? The national average TV-watching time, movie theater attendance, and newspaper & magazine readership is what it is, and someone must be doing almost double their share in each of those categories to make up for my very low consumption rates in those areas. We can already see the effects of today's relatively inefficient marketing methods in beliefs about investing, in consumerism, in political polarization, in general fear-mongering...what happens when the people pulling the strings get really good at it? I fear that it will be like the first use of antibiotics on a never-before-exposed bacterial population—near 100% effectiveness.

 

[Joshua]

I fear that it will be like the first use of antibiotics on a never-before-exposed bacterial population—near 100% effectiveness.

This is why some of us hang out in places like this - knowledge increases our ability to become mutant cells.

 

[BigNick]

You're right. I already use most of the defenses suggested by T-Al, but how many other people do?

Assuming that you're right, and also that this sort of stuff is real and works, then why do we care?

In general, people who LBYM benefit from cheaper, better consumer products. We like to think that we do this in a smart way - spending less on the same or better versions of stuff we would have bought anyway - but we all benefit from, say, better healthcare, and that means machinery, and that means semiconductors, and that means an industry that doesn't just build devices with medical applications.

If you worry about high gas prices, and especially if you have to drive a lot, it makes sense to have Shell and Exxon in your portfolio. Similarly, if you think that people are going to be unable to resist the siren call of Coca-Cola or KFC in future, that's where you should put your money. Whether or not this stuff works, there isn't much point in just worrying about it. At least try and profit while you worry.

 

[kyounge1956]

Assuming that you're right, and also that this sort of stuff is real and works, then why do we care? (snip)

Basically four reasons:

1. If this stuff is real, and works, it will do absolutely nothing to increase human well-being, and may even decrease it. Once basic needs are met, more money and stuff is not correlated with more happiness. But producers and advertisers won't make any money promoting contentedness, they only make money if they sell a product or service. The basic message of advertising—"buy this and you will be thin, rich, happy, sexy, popular...."—is false. The products can't deliver what they promise. If this stuff is real, and works, more people will devote more of their lives to chasing a will-o-the-wisp.
2. If this stuff is real, and works, it will increase usage of products that have adverse effects on some users, and I doubt that the cost resulting from that damage will be borne by the people who caused the increased use and profit from it. I would instead expect a policy of "privatize profit, socialize cost" to prevail. If the number of smokers, alcoholics, problem gamblers, or even morbidly obese people (see Cinnabons, above) increases as a result of the increased effectiveness of techniques to sell these products, I do not think it will be the tobacco companies, distilleries, casino operators or purveyors of empty calories who bear the resulting costs, but the affected individuals themselves and their families, their victims (e.g. of drunk drivers), and to some extent the taxpayers, who pay.
3. If this stuff is real, and works, I don't see any way to exclude the possibility that an evil megalomaniac could make use of these techniques to seize power. This outcome is perhaps unlikely, but the consequences would be horrific. Maybe more likely would be imposition of a government "of the companies, by the companies and for the companies", through effectively selling such a program, and candidates that support it, to the general public. I think corporations already have too much influence on policy. If it's real, and works, neuromarketing would give them much more.
4. And lastly, if this stuff is real and works, I think it's an affront to human dignity. I am revolted by the idea that people's unconscious minds will be manipulated by soulless corporations for their own profit, regardless of whether the effects on the people these techniques are directed at are beneficial or detrimental.

Whether or not this stuff works, there isn't much point in just worrying about it. At least try and profit while you worry.

You're right, worrying won't stop it. And right now, I'm probably profiting from it too, to some extent, because some of my retirement savings are in the stock market via mutual funds, which probably include companies that use, or will use, these methods. Maybe it's time for me to go read Slow Money again, and see if there is a fund yet based on those principles, with a view toward ceasing to profit from it when I retire and can roll over my 457 account to a custodian with wider investment options.

 

[TooFrugal]

Maybe the antidote for people to all this marketing is watching the show hoarders?

I buy a lot of things on Amazon - even grocery items. By the time I factor in mileage and my time it is often the cheapest way to purchase stuff. I don't really get shopping as a hobby.

 

[BigNick]

[*]And lastly, if this stuff is real and works, I think it's an affront to human dignity. I am revolted by the idea that people's unconscious minds will be manipulated by soulless corporations for their own profit, regardless of whether the effects on the people these techniques are directed at are beneficial or detrimental.

You don't think that that's a pretty close approximation to how marketing works today?

 

[kyounge1956]

And lastly, if this stuff is real and works, I think it's an affront to human dignity. I am revolted by the idea that people's unconscious minds will be manipulated by soulless corporations for their own profit, regardless of whether the effects on the people these techniques are directed at are beneficial or detrimental.

You don't think that that's a pretty close approximation to how marketing works today?

I think that's what marketing tries to do today. My concern is that neuromarketing will make it possible to do it much more effectively, and with less potential for the individual to counteract it than is true nowadays.

 

[BigNick]

Well, the present situation seems to be that a very large number of people can be easily persuaded to borrow more than they can afford to buy all kinds of consumer cr*p, until the banks pull the plug. What do you imagine will be worse than that in a world where all that's changed is that some of the marketing techniques have been tested slightly better than today?

Again, the neuro-stuff is used to calibrate marketing messages. It doesn't materially affect what those messages do. It's not like some bad sci-fi show where they make a sound at 453.766 Hz and it makes everyone writhe on the ground and declare allegiance to our new insect overlords.

 

[HFWR]

It's not like some bad sci-fi show where they make a sound at 453.766 Hz and it makes everyone writhe on the ground and declare allegiance to our new insect overlords.

Speak for yourself. Bzzzzzzzzzz...

 

[ERD50]

Strikes me as much ado about nothing. Unlax.

Businesses have always aggressively tried to convince people to buy their products. It is what they do. A Ford dealer isn't concerned that a Ford is the best choice for you, he/she will try to sell you a Ford. Maybe they have better tools now. So how about a look at the flip side:

Consumers have better tools now too. On-line reviews, comparison shopping on line, forums to ask for help in a product purchase, craigslist, freecycle.

Use the tools. If we are looking for the average person to become a more discerning consumer, they will need to be educated. Focusing on that would be more productive than fretting about the tools the marketers use, IMO.

-ERD50

 

[yakers]

Something to eally worry about is the 'next' level read Feed: ( Amazon.com: Feed (9780763622596): M.T. Anderson: Books )
Ultimate story of internal data used for marketing.

Yet the allure of an internalized internet is real, wouldn't it be nice to be able to search data realms just by thinking about it? The 'cost' would be the commercialization of that internal process. It may be [possible to develop defenses but wouldn't it be nice not to have to. I spend a lot of time trying to get "juicy Fruit" commercials out of my head already.