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Old 04-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #1
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Card cloned

Having been away from online banking for a couple of weeks, I just logged on to check the end-of-month situation and discovered that some $#@&%^£ has obtained some or all of my Visa card details and has been having a merry old time with online purchasing, to the tune of $5,000.

So, it's off to the bank in the morning to sort this out (but first, I apparently have to swing by the police station to make a formal complaint). According to the bank's web site, I'm not liable for a cent for fraudulent use without the physical card. I'll believe it when I see the refund; DW had a similar problem with cheque theft 30 years ago when she was poor and the bank found a very obscure reason why in her exact case the insurance didn't cover it.

And all the usual hassles: a week for the new card to arrive, then it will have a new PIN, so then I have to order a new "PIN selectable" card ($). Sigh.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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Every once in a while I am tempted to cut mine all up and notify the issuers to cancel the accounts, so far it's just talk. Visa here in usa limits holder's liability to $50, I think.

Hope you have a good outcome.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:19 PM   #3
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It's up to $50 if you physically lose the card. It's up to $0 if they just steal your information.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #4
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Went round to the police station this morning - closed, please go to another one. Went to another one, parked outside, parking ticket machine not working. So the first thing I said to the nice police lady was "Please don't give me a ticket". Then I had to help another police lady fill out a computer form with every one of the 18 transactions (date and amount) which have already been debited. She prints it all out and I went to the bank. The bank gave me another form to fill in - by hand - giving the date, amount, and payee name of each of the 18 transactions, which I copied carefully from the statement. Sent all that off to Paris in a registered envelope at my expense. Oh, and I managed not to get a parking ticket.

The bank's web site says I will be credited with the fraudulently spent €2,500 "as soon as we receive your declaration of opposition to payment." I mentioned this to the counter clerk who didn't quite roll his eyes, but said "I'd plan on four weeks if I were you - we can arrange an overdraft if you like". Hopefully I will have been credited with the money before the next statement rolls around. I have to wait for that (22 May, approx) before I can go and complain about the 11 other fraudulent transactions which fall in the next billing period, for another €1,500.

Interestingly, one of the fraudulent transactions is an airline ticket. I phoned their call centre and, from just the credit card number, the rep was able to tell me that the ticket was from Paris to Barcelona, and give me the booking reference. So presumably the perp, or one of his/her buddies, will have provided some form of photo ID to get on the plane - this airline uses exclusively online check-in and you have to provide your ID document details to get your boarding card, and that's checked at the gate. So I've faxed the airline's customer service department Dublin to see if they can find a way to communicate those details to the French police. (I saw a depressing documentary on UK TV which seemed to suggest that the British police don't follow up on this kind of crime, but the nice French police lady told me that their Financial Crime department takes this kind of thing pretty seriously. So maybe the perp will be getting a knock on the door.)
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:01 AM   #5
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Not something that will affect you, but I had an interesting conversation with one of the reps in the fraud bureau of a credit card that had been misused a few years ago.

The thief (no idea where, but my guess is a waiter at a restaurant) got the number and used it to buy a first-class round trip airline ticket for nearly $2,000. Then he (most likely with the collusion of a ticket counter clerk) got the airline to refund the ticket price in cash!

I never heard any more of the story after that point, but it shows that these lowlifes can be pretty organized.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:41 AM   #6
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Big Nick -

Any idea how they got your CC number?
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
The thief (no idea where, but my guess is a waiter at a restaurant) got the number and used it to buy a first-class round trip airline ticket for nearly $2,000. Then he (most likely with the collusion of a ticket counter clerk) got the airline to refund the ticket price in cash!

I never heard any more of the story after that point, but it shows that these lowlifes can be pretty organized.
No danger of that in this case - the airline in question (Ryanair) is tighter than a duck's gasket when it comes to refunds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryan View Post
Any idea how they got your CC number?
No. They must also have the CVC code from the back - I'm guessing somewhere in a store wrote it down surreptitiously. I'm not one of those people who keep visual contact of my card at all times while making any purchase.

Most of the purchases were around €75-€150, but two were for €350 and €550. I'm slightly surprised that the supplementary security mechanism for online transactions (a text message sent to my phone with a confirmation code) didn't kick in for those.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:08 AM   #8
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My credit cards are all signed "PHOTO ID" instead of my signature. I really appreciate it when a clerk actually asks to see my ID, but they only look at the back of the card about half the time.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #9
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... and to think of all the online purchases where you need to give everything (but your first born) ..... Enough info there for identity theft and a shoping spree.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:10 PM   #10
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... and to think of all the online purchases where you need to give everything (but your first born) ..... Enough info there for identity theft and a shoping spree.
I'm more concerned about the number of times where I make a phone purchase and they ask for the CVC code (3-digit number on the back of the card), which is explicitly intended only ever to be given to a computer. The problem is that lots of tele-sales clerks are sitting in front of the same online payment processing system which you and I use every day on Web sites.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #11
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I use Discover or ATT UniversalCards virtual CC numbers. I just used one to make a payment through the mail. Once used only that company will receive authorization to use that number again. I used them online, on the phone, through the mail, and have never had a problem.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #12
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What's the downside of using a debit card linked to an account that you keep topped up with a small amount of money? I don't know, honestly maybe that is really inconvenient.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:26 PM   #13
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Just as a side issue, I recently had my credit card number stolen and had ~$3500 in charges racked up. All I had to do was call the CC company, report it, then wait for my new card. No police, no cost, pretty much no hassle. After hearing your story I'll never use a debit card for a purchase again, except maybe at Costco since I don't have AmEx.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:32 PM   #14
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BigNick, let's cut a deal: you give us your health care system and we'll give you our CC theft reimbursement process.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:32 PM   #15
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After hearing your story I'll never use a debit card for a purchase again, except maybe at Costco since I don't have AmEx.
I think you may be over-reacting a little.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I think you may be over-reacting.
Well, I pretty much never use the debit card for purchases anyway (except for Costco). And I didn't catch the France aspect of the situation. That probably makes it apples and oranges. I'm not sure what the process would be over here for debit card number theft.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #17
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Same as for credit card - minus the police report. Call the bank, they freeze the card, issue you a new one and reverse the charges, after investigating.

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