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Old 01-07-2015, 09:42 AM   #61
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I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.
That is good to hear. Although I'm not sure I believe it. Can someone test it out for me. (Only half kidding) I think Alan was told the same thing - but found out the hard way it wasn't true. So our data points right now are 50/50 - Audrey had confirmed chip and pin, Alan has confirmed NOT chip and pin, despite having the card replaced a few times.

I looked into Andrews FCU - which is widely confirmed to have true chip & pin. Turns out you can join Andrews even if you're not/never been military... You need to pay $5 to join a consumer organization, (American Consumer Association?) and that qualifies you. I already have an account at Penfed (used the redcross volunteer thing to join there - not bad - work a blood drive and qualify) - so I'd prefer to do the PenFed option.
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:54 AM   #62
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Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?
Scratching and then some white touch-up car paint to cover it up. Never been questioned about it. Handing it over to a merchant, they don't need it, it exists only for not-in-person transactions to "prove" you physically have the card as that number is not stored (or supposed to be stored) in on-line systems that may have been hacked. An in-person transaction is where they are supposed to check the signature or your picture id, and on-line or by phone where they are supposed to check the security number.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:05 AM   #63
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I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.
Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:09 AM   #64
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I'll miss signing my reciepts...err rather...I usually make my 4 year old sign for me. I always get strange looks, but no one ever challenges me. If my 4 year old isn't with me the signature line usually gets a big "X" or maybe if i'm in a good mood it gets a wavy line.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:47 AM   #65
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Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.

It is very possible he didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he was referring to the chip and not the PIN.

Is the PIN encoded in the chip? I was wondering why he said I would not be able to change the PIN.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:00 PM   #66
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Scratching and then some white touch-up car paint to cover it up. Never been questioned about it. Handing it over to a merchant, they don't need it, it exists only for not-in-person transactions to "prove" you physically have the card as that number is not stored (or supposed to be stored) in on-line systems that may have been hacked. An in-person transaction is where they are supposed to check the signature or your picture id, and on-line or by phone where they are supposed to check the security number.
I took the plunge and scratched off the 3 digit code. On the Chase Sapphire it's a raised set of numbers. Underneath appeared the letters "OID" (for perhaps Online ID?). In my wallet I carry a little paper with some codes, so just added this to that sheet. I'm going to feel a lot better about giving the card to a waiter who disappears with it.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:08 PM   #67
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It is very possible he didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he was referring to the chip and not the PIN.

Is the PIN encoded in the chip? I was wondering why he said I would not be able to change the PIN.
I think you are correct, and it was not just one person, it was 3 different folks over a 6 month period as I applied for and got my first CHIP & notPIN in the Fall of 2013 when they first came out. Over a year later I would expect that you have a very good shot at getting the card you need.

Yes, the PIN is encoded on the CHIP, which has a CPU not just memory, and in Europe I believe it is possible to change it at a bank that has a machine that can re-code the PIN on the CHIP.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:13 PM   #68
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Info here on changing your PIN in the UK, at an ATM providing "PIN services"

Can I change my PIN? | Barclays


I expect it will be a long while before such options appear in the USA
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:38 PM   #69
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I looked into Andrews FCU - which is widely confirmed to have true chip & pin. Turns out you can join Andrews even if you're not/never been military... You need to pay $5 to join a consumer organization, (American Consumer Association?) and that qualifies you.
The chip&PIN card was the only reason I opened an account at Andrews. I've been pleased with it (no foreign transaction charge is a big reason), but as noted here, it won't work at places in Europe that simply don't honor non-Euro cards.
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Old 01-07-2015, 01:33 PM   #70
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I like the idea of scratching off the 3 digit code on the back.

We've had chip and PIN cards in Canada for awhile. I like them and I think that most do. One of the nice things is that in restaurants your card never leaves you. The POS terminal comes to you, you insert the card or just wave it over the terminal ('tap'), ok the amount and enter a tip as an amount or a percent depending on your preference.

One can definitely change the PIN - at a terminal at the bank, online or by phone. Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?
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Old 01-07-2015, 01:39 PM   #71
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Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?
Sadly, No. It's actually the jokers who run US banks.
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:09 PM   #72
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Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.
I accepted the system generated PIN instead of requesting my own.

Also, I used it for a least one transaction with signature overseas before trying to use it in an automated kiosk because I had read a couple of times that was important? I don't know if it's actually true.
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:12 PM   #73
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I like the idea of scratching off the 3 digit code on the back.

We've had chip and PIN cards in Canada for awhile. I like them and I think that most do. One of the nice things is that in restaurants your card never leaves you. The POS terminal comes to you, you insert the card or just wave it over the terminal ('tap'), ok the amount and enter a tip as an amount or a percent depending on your preference.

One can definitely change the PIN - at a terminal at the bank, online or by phone. Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?
There is nothing preventing someone bringing out a terminal to a table in the US. Current (magnetic stripe) cards work just fine. I've occasionally used such a thing in the US. It's really retail resistance to change.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:11 PM   #74
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Also, I used it for a least one transaction with signature overseas before trying to use it in an automated kiosk because I had read a couple of times that was important? I don't know if it's actually true.
My supposed chip and pin card had instructions to do exactly that. Use it one time in a foreign country as a chip and signature card and from then on it could be used as a chip and pin card. Alas, it never worked once as a chip and pin card even though it was a chip and signature card over and over and over again.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:22 PM   #75
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There is nothing preventing someone bringing out a terminal to a table in the US. Current (magnetic stripe) cards work just fine. I've occasionally used such a thing in the US. It's really retail resistance to change.
I've often marveled at the lack of this simple method at restaurants. I suppose it would require good secure communications between the waiter's device and the server. But the Europeans seem to easily handle this.

I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:32 PM   #76
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I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.
Yes, I'm still waiting for my flying car.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:03 PM   #77
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I've often marveled at the lack of this simple method at restaurants. I suppose it would require good secure communications between the waiter's device and the server. But the Europeans seem to easily handle this.

I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.
It's really nuts that the US is soooooooo backwards with this. And what about all the server time wasted taking your card going to the terminal, bringing it back, someone has to reenter the tip amount, etc., etc? All this can be done at once by bringing you the terminal. [They don't always do the tip entry - in Europe we usually left the tip in cash which seemed to be a convention, plus the Europe tips are way lower than in the US. But I have used a few terminals where you could enter the tip.]

I know one restaurant in a quite small city in Washington state that such a terminal was brought to our table way back in 2011. So it's not rocket science. This is the kind of technology the US is very good at. There are other, non-technical reasons that the US is so far behind in this.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:17 PM   #78
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I just left a restaurant in Toronto an hour ago and that was the neatest deal using the payment device that the table to make the charge. Real simple and quick. Why can't we do this in the U.S.?
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:24 PM   #79
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I just left a restaurant in Toronto an hour ago and that was the neatest deal using the payment device that the table to make the charge. Real simple and quick. Why can't we do this in the U.S.?
The Chili's Restaurant chain uses tabletop payment terminals and has been doing so for more than a year.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:34 PM   #80
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The Chili's Restaurant chain uses tabletop payment terminals and has been doing so for more than a year.
Oh, that's a payment terminal? Lat time I was in Chili's I thought those were for video games as kids were all over them.
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