Chip and PIN in Europe

[SecondAttempt]

I've been going to Europe every few years or more often for over 40 years. I've watched the credit card landscape evolve from nonexistent to ubiquitous as it is today. They have evolved to a chip and PIN system where your card has a chip and you have to enter a PIN for each transaction. This is not really new. It was the way things were at least 12 years ago. It was a minor inconvenience in restaurants and often I could not use my card in public transport ticket machines.

I'll be in Europe this summer and the car rental company (Hertz) says it reqquires a chip and PIN card to rent. Even a prepaid rental seems to require a chip and PIN card to release the car.

I have previously tried to get a chip and PIN for my AMEX card. No joy. I contacted Chase for my other cards today, explained the problem, and they also refused me. They said they only do PINs for debit transactions.

Has anyone else run into this issue with not having a chip and PIN card in Europe? Are there workarounds? This would seem like a major hassle for thousands of customers who travel! For the record, my Chase cards are all travel cards (United, Marriott, Sapphire) so it is especially annoying.

 

[Alan]

I would expect that pay by phone such as Applepay would be acceptable if you can’t get an American card that does CHIP and PIN. Australia, by law, went completely CHIP and PIN during our long stay in 2014 and it was a real pain but we were still able to use our debit card to get cash from ATMs. (Don’t know if that is still the case today)

 

[Flyfish1]

Wow -this seems like a major hassle. We are traveling to Australia/NZ in 2024. Will have to figure that out in advance.

 

[braumeister]

A number of us here have a MasterCard from First Tech Federal Credit Union. It is set up the same way European cards are; PIN priority instead of signature priority like US cards.

It has worked perfectly in all the countries I've used it in, so I can recommend it.

 

[Alan]

Wow -this seems like a major hassle. We are traveling to Australia/NZ in 2024. Will have to figure that out in advance.

We had one instance of filling up at a gas station many miles from anywhere, no ATMs around and we really needed to fill up, so I filled the tank and went in to pay. The lady was distraught that I didn't have a chip and pin card or enough cash to pay so she had me sign a letter with my name and contact details that she could show her boss. The card worked, requiring a signature, but for the previous couple of months there had been lots of adverts on the TV telling folks that after a certain date the only type of cards that would be accepted would be chip and pin.

So, you do need to check ahead of your visit what will be acceptable where. Probably okay in the larger towns and cities

https://www.visa.com.au/about-visa/...rs will be,technology aimed at reducing fraud.

01/22/2014

Sydney - Australian cardholders will be required to use PINs instead of signatures from 1 August 2014 when paying with their debit and credit cards, Visa said today.

The move is part of an industry-wide upgrade of the payment system to chip and PIN technology aimed at reducing fraud.

“Chip cards have had a dramatic effect on reducing counterfeit card fraud, and when used in combination with PIN will keep Australia’s fraud rate low now and into the future,” said Vipin Kalra, Visa’s Country Manager for Australia.

“Chip has already cut counterfeit fraud losses on Australian cards by 44 percent in the 12 months ending June 2013 and the move to PIN will help close the door on lost and stolen card fraud .”

Mr Kalra said Visa is working with banks, merchants, cardholders, card schemes and the broader payments industry to manage the phasing out of signatures in Australia.

Over 60 percent of cardholders already use a PIN to verify their transactions at the point of sale and Visa is encouraging all Australian cardholders to PIN instead of sign.

“The move to PIN takes better advantage of EMV or the ‘chip technology’ on Visa cards, which is the international standard that provides the most security for electronic payments today,” Mr Kalra added.

“It’s important cardholders start using PIN now, so they are prepared for the change well before August 1. Consumers who don’t know their PIN can contact their financial institutions to receive one,” he said.

There is no change to online or Visa payWave transactions. For transactions under $100 cardholders can simply wave and go. Cardholders can also use Visa payWave for purchases above $100, with a PIN. Visa payWave is protected by multiple layers of security and meets all the same security standards as traditional chip cards.

There will also be no change for visitors to Australia with overseas-issued Visa cards, who will be able to sign or PIN as previously.

 

[audreyh1]

A number of us here have a MasterCard from First Tech Federal Credit Union. It is set up the same way European cards are; PIN priority instead of signature priority like US cards.

It has worked perfectly in all the countries I've used it in, so I can recommend it.

Right - that’s what we have. Works great, even though I almost never use it now because ApplePay and contactless in general is so common in Europe.

 

[camfused]

^^^ So let me see if I understand this. If your card supports the RFID contactless transaction, then you do not need to have Chip and Pin, with pin priority??

Also, if you have an Apple CC in your Apple Pay, there is no foreign transaction fees.

 

[Alan]

^^^ So let me see if I understand this. If your card supports the RFID contactless transaction, then you do not need to have Chip and Pin, with pin priority??

Also, if you have an Apple CC in your Apple Pay, there is no foreign transaction fees.

Contactless has a max limit per transaction so you need to be below that. In England it is £100

Apple Pay is linked to a credit card so that card would need to be foreign transaction fee free otherwise normal foreign transaction fees apply

 

[camfused]

Thanks, does the Apple Pay then need to be less than £100 ?

 

[Alan]

Thanks, does the Apple Pay then need to be less than £100 ?

No. Apple Pay is the limit of the credit card you have linked to it. You can have multiple cards set up and choose a different one when paying if you like

 

[audreyh1]

^^^ So let me see if I understand this. If your card supports the RFID contactless transaction, then you do not need to have Chip and Pin, with pin priority??

Also, if you have an Apple CC in your Apple Pay, there is no foreign transaction fees.

Does the Apple CC have no foreign transaction fees? Then yes via ApplePay too.

In Europe we used other non-PIN priority cards with ApplePay as most places, particularly restaurants, accepted ApplePay. It was a great workaround, and it was sweet being able to use our watches to pay at the table.

So that last trip I only used my PIN priority credit card to buy tram tickets in the ticket machine.

 

[fh2000]

I've been going to Europe every few years or more often for over 40 years. I've watched the credit card landscape evolve from nonexistent to ubiquitous as it is today. They have evolved to a chip and PIN system where your card has a chip and you have to enter a PIN for each transaction. This is not really new. It was the way things were at least 12 years ago. It was a minor inconvenience in restaurants and often I could not use my card in public transport ticket machines.

I'll be in Europe this summer and the car rental company (Hertz) says it reqquires a chip and PIN card to rent. Even a prepaid rental seems to require a chip and PIN card to release the car.

I have previously tried to get a chip and PIN for my AMEX card. No joy. I contacted Chase for my other cards today, explained the problem, and they also refused me. They said they only do PINs for debit transactions.

Has anyone else run into this issue with not having a chip and PIN card in Europe? Are there workarounds? This would seem like a major hassle for thousands of customers who travel! For the record, my Chase cards are all travel cards (United, Marriott, Sapphire) so it is especially annoying.

https://www.cardrates.com/advice/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/
From google search, and see that

Chase Unlimited CC
Bank of America Travel Reward CC

are Chip and PIN cards. I happen to have these. Have to find out what my PIN number is.

So, I guess I could try to tap Sapphire card first, then when asked for PIN, I could try the other two.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks, does the Apple Pay then need to be less than £100 ?

No. Not generally in my experience. I only ran into a limit once at a department store in Madrid where they applied the current contactless limit also to ApplePay, but most do not as it is just as secure as presenting the CC.

I’m pretty sure we used ApplePay as well at hotels where the total was way over 100 Euros.

 

[camfused]

https://www.cardrates.com/advice/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/
From google search, and see that

Chase Unlimited CC
Bank of America Travel Reward CC

are Chip and PIN cards. I happen to have these. Have to find out what my PIN number is.

So, I guess I could try to tap Sapphire card first, then when asked for PIN, I could try the other two.

Don't trust this list. It says my PenFed card is Chip and Pin, but it is not (I just chatted with them to check). To be clear, it is not PIN priority Chip and Pin.

 

[audreyh1]

Most of the US credit cards have the chip and a lot have an PIN you can set up, but are not PIN priority. PIN priority is a rarity in US issued credit cards.

My Bank of America Travel Rewards CC has a PIN, but it asks for signature first. Still I think I was able to use it in one machine and use the PIN. So sometimes they work as you hope.

 

[brett]

Chip and pin has been pervasive where we live for at least 12 years so this has never been an issue for us.

We spent 5 weeks in Portugal this past May/June. All we saw was chip and pin...including on the Lisbon transit system and train stations. Same in restaurants. More smaller restaurants seem to be insisting on cash and have signs and advice notices.

We had not been to Europe for several years because of covid. We noticed two things as regards to banking.

First...there seemed to be far less bank ATMS than there were in previous years. They have been been replaced by 'private' ATMS with much higher charges and excessive conversion fees. They are everywhere. And the nomenclature might lead one to believe that these units are bank sponsored. They are not. We saw several positioned in the middle of large glass shop windows! Avoid them. In one city we must have passed ten of the commercial ATM's in search of a bank ATM. They are more pervasive in tourist areas.

Second...every bank ATM withdrawal asked us if we wanted the ATM bank to do the currency conversion. Yes was a big green band. No was a big red band. The correct answer (for us ) is NO...have your own bank do the conversion.

We did not come across any retail vendors or restaurants offering 'dynamic currency conversion' on our credit cards. Lately we have been seeing more and more of this when we travel.

 

[OldShooter]

We've never seen this problem. Most of our charges are on my Visa issued by USBank, which is chipped. I suppose there is a PIN but I have never used it. I don't recall yea or nay on tapping during our recent trip to Italy but tapping works in the US just fine.

For ATMs I use my Schwab Bank debit card, for which I have and use a PIN.

Re AMEX I wouldn't consider carrying one because it is so widely refused by merchants overseas. Why ask for trouble? Visa for me.

 

[rodi]

Don't trust this list. It says my PenFed card is Chip and Pin, but it is not (I just chatted with them to check). To be clear, it is not PIN priority Chip and Pin.

I specifically got the penfed visa card years ago prior to a Europe trip... For the chip and pin. It has worked at tram stations in Amsterdam, ticket machines in Berlin, etc. It definitely is chip and pin. For cash I use my Schwab debit.

I'd double check with penfed... As I said, mine is definitely chip and pin.

 

[brett]

We've never seen this problem. Most of our charges are on my Visa issued by USBank, which is chipped. I suppose there is a PIN but I have never used it. I don't recall yea or nay on tapping during our recent trip to Italy but tapping works in the US just fine.

For ATMs I use my Schwab Bank debit card, for which I have and use a PIN.

Re AMEX I wouldn't consider carrying one because it is so widely refused by merchants overseas. Why ask for trouble? Visa for me.

Ditto. We have an Amex chip and pin card. We take it with us when we travel internationally as a backup card. I cannot remember ever using overseas in 12 plus years of international travel.

It is not accepted very often so we do not even bother trying it...other than airlines or multi national hotel chains.

 

[W2R]

What a pain in the neck all of this is for travelers!

Makes me so glad that international travel is at the absolute bottom of my list of all wishes and desires these days, right below collecting garbage 20 hours/day for a living out in 50-below-zero temperatures.

Have fun, y'all.

 

[walkinwood]

I haven't had any issues with our chip+signature cards on my last three trips to Europe - Netherlands, France, Spain & Portugal.

At times, the vendor would print out the receipt and have me sign. Other times, I didn't have to sign at all. The cards worked in automated ticket vending machines too. Where available, the tap & pay worked too.


I've rented cars in Spain & Portugal with a chip/signature card without issue - Enterprise on both occasions. I would call the location where you are renting from and check.

American tourists are a large part of European tourism, so it is not in their interest to make it hard for us.

 

[jollystomper]

Just curious if anyone has used the Fidelity Visa Signature Rewards card in Europe. I am considering using it for an upcoming trip. From the website it does not appear one can set a pin (you can set one of course for the Fidelity Debit/ATM card). I was able to indicate my travel plans via the website, but I will call them about this today. Just wondering if anyone has had experience with this card in Europe. I have other cards so it is not a critical issue.

 

[audreyh1]

Just curious if anyone has used the Fidelity Visa Signature Rewards card in Europe. I am considering using it for an upcoming trip. From the website it does not appear one can set a pin (you can set one of course for the Fidelity Debit/ATM card). I was able to indicate my travel plans via the website, but I will call them about this today. Just wondering if anyone has had experience with this card in Europe. I have other cards so it is not a critical issue.

No, because it has a 1% foreign transaction fee. This simply means that your credit card cash rewards effectively drop from 2% to 1%, but I have other international cards with no foreign transaction fee that pay higher rewards.

 

[braumeister]

I specifically got the penfed visa card years ago prior to a Europe trip... For the chip and pin. It has worked at tram stations in Amsterdam, ticket machines in Berlin, etc. It definitely is chip and pin. For cash I use my Schwab debit.

I'd double check with penfed... As I said, mine is definitely chip and pin.

Yes, certainly my PenFed VISA has a chip and a PIN. But the issue you run into at times overseas is that they often want a "PIN Priority" card, meaning that it asks for your PIN and doesn't care about a signature. Most American cards are "Signature Priority" and the foreign machines will have to spit out a paper receipt you have to sign. That's a nuisance but possible.

The problem you can sometimes run into is at places like train stations when buying a ticket, unattended gas station pumps, some restaurants where they hand you the machine to pay, etc. If they are looking for a PIN Priority card, it's so much nicer and quicker if your card works like the European cards. That's why I keep the First Tech card.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes, certainly my PenFed VISA has a chip and a PIN. But the issue you run into at times overseas is that they often want a "PIN Priority" card, meaning that it asks for your PIN and doesn't care about a signature. Most American cards are "Signature Priority" and the foreign machines will have to spit out a paper receipt you have to sign. That's a nuisance but possible.

The problem you can sometimes run into is at places like train stations when buying a ticket, unattended gas station pumps, some restaurants where they hand you the machine to pay, etc. If they are looking for a PIN Priority card, it's so much nicer and quicker if your card works like the European cards. That's why I keep the First Tech card.

I actually have had a US signature priority card switch to PIN when used in a ticket machine. It doesn’t always work, but sometimes it does. I think I used my old PenFed credit card that way a couple of times, and the Bank of America Travel Rewards VISA. It very much depended. In some cases ticket machines didn’t accept US credit cards outright, but they would accept a US debit card.