Chip and signature cards

[Walt34]

I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.

Yes, I'm still waiting for my flying car.

 

[audreyh1]

I've often marveled at the lack of this simple method at restaurants. I suppose it would require good secure communications between the waiter's device and the server. But the Europeans seem to easily handle this.

I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.

It's really nuts that the US is soooooooo backwards with this. And what about all the server time wasted taking your card going to the terminal, bringing it back, someone has to reenter the tip amount, etc., etc? All this can be done at once by bringing you the terminal. [They don't always do the tip entry - in Europe we usually left the tip in cash which seemed to be a convention, plus the Europe tips are way lower than in the US. But I have used a few terminals where you could enter the tip.]

I know one restaurant in a quite small city in Washington state that such a terminal was brought to our table way back in 2011. So it's not rocket science. This is the kind of technology the US is very good at. There are other, non-technical reasons that the US is so far behind in this.

 

[aja8888]

I just left a restaurant in Toronto an hour ago and that was the neatest deal using the payment device that the table to make the charge. Real simple and quick. Why can't we do this in the U.S.?

 

[REWahoo]

I just left a restaurant in Toronto an hour ago and that was the neatest deal using the payment device that the table to make the charge. Real simple and quick. Why can't we do this in the U.S.?

The Chili's Restaurant chain uses tabletop payment terminals and has been doing so for more than a year.

 

[aja8888]

The Chili's Restaurant chain uses tabletop payment terminals and has been doing so for more than a year.

Oh, that's a payment terminal? Lat time I was in Chili's I thought those were for video games as kids were all over them.

 

[audreyh1]

The Chili's Restaurant chain uses tabletop payment terminals and has been doing so for more than a year.

Wow - I guess I haven't been to Chili's in over a year!

 

[REWahoo]

Yep, you can play video games with them, even order desert, pay your bill and tip your server. You have the option of printing out a receipt or having one emailed...

 

[meierlde]

Of course slightly less fancy restaraunts present the check and you go to the cashier to pay. The card will be swiped in your presence. I suspect this actually saves the store money, as one less round trip for the waiter/waitress.

 

[rodi]

I think Red Robin has one of those gizmos to pay at the table as well. But it doesn't do chip and anything - strictly magnetic stripe.

On this topic - airlines have terminals on the seatbacks you can order movies, call long distance, etc... do those support chip and pin? I don't think so.

 

[braumeister]

It's really nuts that the US is soooooooo backwards with this. And what about all the server time wasted taking your card going to the terminal, bringing it back, someone has to reenter the tip amount, etc., etc? All this can be done at once by bringing you the terminal. [They don't always do the tip entry - in Europe we usually left the tip in cash which seemed to be a convention, plus the Europe tips are way lower than in the US. But I have used a few terminals where you could enter the tip.].

As a nice antidote for this problem, I was introduced to a pretty cool smartphone app on a recent trip.
You install the app and link it to a credit card.
When you order, you inform the server that you're using the app. The server codes your account with your name or the code number the app provides.
When you're done, there's no need to ask for your check and wait for it to be brought. You open the app and see your bill. Check that it's correct, add the desired tip, and hit the pay button.
The advantage is that the restaurant never sees your credit card -- they only get a one-time code number.
The incentive to try it was that on your first use of the app, you get an automatic $10 discount on your bill.

It's only in a small number of cities so far, but I'm sure it will expand quickly since it's so convenient to use.

Details here: TabbedOut - Pay your tab with your phone

 

[audreyh1]

As a nice antidote for this problem, I was introduced to a pretty cool smartphone app on a recent trip.
You install the app and link it to a credit card.
When you order, you inform the server that you're using the app. The server codes your account with your name or the code number the app provides.
When you're done, there's no need to ask for your check and wait for it to be brought. You open the app and see your bill. Check that it's correct, add the desired tip, and hit the pay button.
The advantage is that the restaurant never sees your credit card -- they only get a one-time code number.
The incentive to try it was that on your first use of the app, you get an automatic $10 discount on your bill.

It's only in a small number of cities so far, but I'm sure it will expand quickly since it's so convenient to use.

Details here: TabbedOut - Pay your tab with your phone

Very, very nice!

 

[Chuckanut]

TabbedOut may be great in the states, but what about overseas?

 

[braumeister]

TabbedOut may be great in the states, but what about overseas?

I've always found cash a convenient and safe alternative.

 

[Meadbh]

As a nice antidote for this problem, I was introduced to a pretty cool smartphone app on a recent trip.
You install the app and link it to a credit card.
When you order, you inform the server that you're using the app. The server codes your account with your name or the code number the app provides.
When you're done, there's no need to ask for your check and wait for it to be brought. You open the app and see your bill. Check that it's correct, add the desired tip, and hit the pay button.
The advantage is that the restaurant never sees your credit card -- they only get a one-time code number.
The incentive to try it was that on your first use of the app, you get an automatic $10 discount on your bill.

It's only in a small number of cities so far, but I'm sure it will expand quickly since it's so convenient to use.

Details here: TabbedOut - Pay your tab with your phone

TD recently introduced a similar app, but thus far it does not support Apple devices.

TD Mobile Payment | TD Canada Trust

Scotiabank has it too, with the same list of devices:

http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/0,,8100,00.html

Hmmm! Could there be some concern about security on Apple devices?

 

[M Paquette]

Hmmm! Could there be some concern about security on Apple devices?

But they'll support Android devices?

No, it's not security. Some banks view Apple initiatives such as ApplePay as competition. A number of institutions are already partnered with MCX Mobile and their CurrentC mobile wallet. These will be on Apple mobile devices once the CurrentC app gets past its early teething pains.

That said, note that the apps you mention are just using the standard wireless 'near field' payment mechanism of newer POS terminals. Any phone with the compatible RFID hardware can use these, including Apple's iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. The terminal just sees the unique virtual card number and routes it through the payment system like a chipped card.

The particular bank backing the card does have to agree to let their card participate in the systems, which is where we see some cards limited to the bank's own app rather than the more generic wallet apps. The bank just doesn't want to share the network transaction fee with a third party.

 

[explanade]

Current C exposes your checking account number to merchants.

As opposed to Apple Pay which doesn't hand over your credit card numbers..

I picked up an iPhone 6 Plus last night and one of the reasons was Apple Pay. Just in the last week, my Chase Freedom Visa was used for a fraudulent transaction on a foreign web site.

Funny thing is I've never used that card overseas because of the forex charges. My other cards that I've used overseas, the Chase Sapphire Preferred and BofA Visa, have already been replaced at least once each, because of things like the Target and Home Depot breaches.

So I've loaded some cards into Apple Pay and waiting for the new Chase Freedom, which is offering 5X points for supermarkets this quarter. But to use Apple Pay, I would have to shop more at Whole Foods. I don't think Safeway supports contactless payments.

Good news is that most of the new terminals which support chipped cards also have contactless so it should work, unless like Target and Best Buy, they specifically disable contactless to block Apple Pay in favor of their own Current C.

Hopefully more locations overseas will support contactless and mobile payments in general. Though it seems the deals Apple makes with banks and credit card networks are boosting the support of mobile payments in general, hopefully they cut deals in other countries as well.

Then maybe we don't have to worry about this chip and PIN vs. chip and signature mess.

 

[HFWR]

Just in the last week, my Chase Freedom Visa was used for a fraudulent transaction on a foreign web site.

Hey, I have to pay for my porn habit somehow...

Both my [-]Shitty[/-] CitiBank MC and my Costco AMEX are being replaced with a new chip card, sometime this year allegedly. Guess I figure out what that means when I get the new cards.

As long as I can continue to rack up air miles and cash-back, I can live with it...

 

[audreyh1]

We had a chipped card replaced last year. Right after a trip to Europe, where the card never left our sight, we had a few foreign transactions show up of online orders from Tokyo merchants. They had to change the number and replace the card. I don't remember if we used it right on our return or not.

Chips don't help prevent online fraud which is where most stolen numbers are used anyway, as far as I know. That's how our cards have always been used when someone got our numbers.

 

[explanade]

We had a chipped card replaced last year. Right after a trip to Europe, where the card never left our sight, we had a few foreign transactions show up of online orders from Tokyo merchants. They had to change the number and replace the card. I don't remember if we used it right on our return or not.

Chips don't help prevent online fraud which is where most stolen numbers are used anyway, as far as I know. That's how our cards have always been used when someone got our numbers.

Problem is, you're using that card in the US where it is swiped and that unprotected magnetic stripe is read by store systems, which are hacked, a la Target, Home Depot, etc.

I've had two chipped cards replaced but I don't believe there were fraudulent charges on them. Just the banks being proactive after the Target and Home Depot breaches.

 

[Chuckanut]

Another reason we need real chip-and-pin and not chipped signature cards. Had the thief needed to enter a pin, the groceries could not have been purchased. Of course, online orders would still be possible.

Customer catches Starbucks cashier stealing credit card info | Clark Howard

But while the customer waited for the cashier to return with her credit card and receipt, the 19-year-old employee allegedly wrote down the woman's credit card information.
<snip>
claims that the cashier was caught on camera making a purchase of $212 at a Ralph's grocery store.

 

[W2R]

Another reason we need real chip-and-pin and not chipped signature cards. Had the thief needed to enter a pin, the groceries could not have been purchased. Of course, online orders would still be possible.

Customer catches Starbucks cashier stealing credit card info | Clark Howard

My bank gave me a chip-and-pin debit card in October. But, since there don't seem to be any chip-and-pin readers around here yet, it also has the magnetic stripe on it like the old debit cards. So, for the time being I use it in the magnetic card readers just like my old debit card.

Apparently the advantage is that if I ever encounter a chip-and-pin reader, it can be used there too. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[rodi]

W2R - Target has rolled out chip reading machines. I was there before Christmas and had to insert rather than swipe.

My local grocery store has the chip reading machine - but it's still being used in swipe mode.

 

[Lsbcal]

Scary boots with that Starbucks story.

I use an app on my phone now for Starbucks. They just scan the bar code. I gave my wife the Starbucks gold card I used to use. Just load the account up with some $'s.

 

[Dash man]

W2R - Target has rolled out chip reading machines. I was there before Christmas and had to insert rather than swipe.

My local grocery store has the chip reading machine - but it's still being used in swipe mode.

Target's chip reading machines still require a signature. Until they implement the requirement to use a PIN, the chip is useless.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[W2R]

W2R - Target has rolled out chip reading machines. I was there before Christmas and had to insert rather than swipe.

My local grocery store has the chip reading machine - but it's still being used in swipe mode.

I should check out Target, then! I haven't been inside our Target lately, but maybe ours has a chip reading machine too. Given their stolen CC information scandal, I think that would be pretty cool.

Target's chip reading machines still require a signature. Until they implement the requirement to use a PIN, the chip is useless.

Oh.... my understanding is that my debit card is strictly chip and pin. Oh well.