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Chip and signature cards
Old 01-05-2015, 11:58 PM   #1
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Chip and signature cards

According to this article in the WSJ, American banks will be giving us chip and signature cards this year. Apparently, they believe their customers will find chip and pin cards to inconvenient.

"U.S. bank executives said they are choosing the signature version so customers won’t be burdened at the checkout line to remember a new four-digit code."

Why New Credit Cards May Fall Short on Fraud Control - WSJ

Sorry if the article is behind a pay wall.


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Old 01-06-2015, 12:17 AM   #2
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I think US banks are underestimating the intellectual capacity of the American public. It's really not that difficult to remember a PIN.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:42 AM   #3
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Since Americans don't like using the dollar coin, I'm not surprised by the thought they will find the chip and pin a pain.
Getting rid of the $1 and $2 and the 1 cent makes so much sense, yet nobody wants to do it in the USA.

In Canada, they use the dollar coin and $2 coin got rid of the 1 cent, and they use chip and pin Credit cards.

When you stick in the Credit Card, it locks in (at gas stations) and then you have to do the pin and make other selections, then it unlocks the card and allows you to remove it. Then you pump gas.

When you buy something at a store, you don't swipe, you stick in the correct end of the card, wait for it to ask for pin, enter pin, wait for it to say "valid" or "wrong pin" , then if "valid" you can take out the card.

So yeah, it is a pain to use, because its more than remembering a pin.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:44 AM   #4
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Unbelievable!

We remember PINs all the time for other purposes. It isn't THAT tough.
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Old 01-06-2015, 04:35 AM   #5
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I think US banks are underestimating the intellectual capacity of the American public. It's really not that difficult to remember a PIN.
Yes, especially since US customers have been using debit cards with pins for over a decade.

The bank executives are lying. What the banks really want is to maintain the higher fees associated with processing signature transactions.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:00 AM   #6
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And many who can't remember a PIN will write it on their card.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:44 AM   #7
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That story was just sad, but not too surprising.
However, some (if not most?) chip & sign cards will also work as traditional chip & PIN cards in some situations. I had both a Visa and a MasterCard with me in Europe last year, and both worked as chip & PIN when I needed them to (train ticket kiosks, etc.), although the Visa defaulted to chip & sign at most restaurants.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:50 AM   #8
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The whole mess is irritating. I wanted a chip and pin for use in machines other than ATMs overseas - for example, some bike sharing systems require C&P cards. All I could get from my banks are chip and signature. They ought to at least offer a choice.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:56 AM   #9
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No bank wants to be the first to impose Chip and Pin when their competitors are offering Chip and Signature due to the perceived risk of loss of market share.

NPR aired a news story on Monday (1/5).

-gauss
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:38 AM   #10
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My Chase card is chip and signature and I don't see what it adds to security. Now if is was chip and pin, I would totally get that.

Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:30 AM   #11
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The WSJ article suggests that there are no cards for online purchase safety. But there are. Currently, I use the BOA ShopSafe system. But more convenient ones exist where a computer chip is included on the credit card and the pin is dynamic fir online purchases.
NagraID Security But, if our banks do not trust us with a pin, they will not invest in this next generation of technology unless we demand it.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:35 AM   #12
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My Chase card is chip and signature and I don't see what it adds to security. Now if is was chip and pin, I would totally get that.

Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.
It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:58 AM   #13
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It adds security by making sure the original card is present at the time of purchase, as opposed to the one the bad guy skimmed at the gas station, or the one copied by the bad guy at thr restaurant. The banks are too big to care to do anything that would be more efficient...that's going to take an upstart. You'll probably see chip and pin at some entity trying to break into banking (did anyone think "Walmart"?)
Good point. Actually Walmart is the only place that has made me use the chip feature of the card so far.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:06 AM   #14
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Anyone can steal my card and forge my sig. The other way they would have to know my pin.
Yes, and how often do stores actually LOOK closely at the signature on the back of one's card, and compared it with one's signature? Not often as far as I can tell.

I don't think the signature is any kind of security at all for us.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
That story was just sad, but not too surprising.
However, some (if not most?) chip & sign cards will also work as traditional chip & PIN cards in some situations. I had both a Visa and a MasterCard with me in Europe last year, and both worked as chip & PIN when I needed them to (train ticket kiosks, etc.), although the Visa defaulted to chip & sign at most restaurants.
A chip and signature card won't work this way. You really have to get a card that is explicitly a chip and PIN card. Unfortunately, the optional PIN available for the signature card to is only for cash advances.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gauss View Post
No bank wants to be the first to impose Chip and Pin when their competitors are offering Chip and Signature due to the perceived risk of loss of market share.

NPR aired a news story on Monday (1/5).

-gauss
I don't believe this. Especially since the US issued chip and PIN cards default to signature priority. You don't even know the difference until you try to use it in an automated kiosk.

So, IMO, the above line about perceived risk of loss of market share is just an excuse to mask the real issue - fear of lowering of transaction fees.

There are US issuers. I got one last year, and a lot of people have jumped through hoops to get a true chip and PIN card for use overseas. The US media does NOT understand the whole story.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:28 AM   #17
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:29 AM   #18
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The WSJ article suggests that there are no cards for online purchase safety. But there are. Currently, I use the BOA ShopSafe system.
I also use BofA Shopsafe. It's a minor inconvenience, but I really like the one use numbers it hands out. I use it for all online shopping, except Amazon. I probably should use it with them too, but they make it so darn convenient to just keep a cc on file and use that.

I truly hope we move from the chip and signature/pin card phase and quickly adopt ApplePay and Google Wallet like solutions. My wife has an iPhone 6 and uses ApplePay at Meijer and a few other places. It's very convenient and very secure. I hope more stores support it by the time I get a new iPhone next fall.

So far the Apple biometrics (finger print sensor) has held up pretty well.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:31 AM   #19
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Good point. Actually Walmart is the only place that has made me use the chip feature of the card so far.
Walmart was the first around here. Now some area grocery stores have dual readers too.

My Fidelity AMEX has been replaced 3 times in the last year(2 were chip and sign). The last replacement, after the Home Depot breach, was no chip, just swipe and sign. Maybe they couldn't make enough replacements.

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Old 01-06-2015, 09:52 AM   #20
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Audrey and Braumeister - who issued your chip and pin (that defaults to chip and signature)...

I'm heading to Europe this summer and want to make sure I have options.

I think I recall from an older thread that one of them was Penfed... is that right? How well did it work at kiosks. (We're doing a lot of train travel so kiosk use would be nice)
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