College Degree Ain't What it Used to Be

a B.S.E.E. is more marketable than a Ph.D in Oceanography.
You really are a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

I worked with a lieutenant who had his BS EE, and while he was on his final two years of active duty he did an online MS EE from Hawaii with U of Wash. He got hired by an Oregon EE consulting firm, and the first thing they did was send him back to U-Dub for his PhD.

One very happy ex-nuke...
 
Makes one wonder if it is really worth it to run up all of those college loan bills. Sure am glad that I paid for my education the old fashioned way, work and scholarships.
I had the dream financial aid package...
NYS Regents Scholarship (tuition only to 4 year SUNY school)
NDSL (pay back loan)
BEOG and SEOG
College W*rk-Study Program, Physics lab assistant

Graduated in 1980 with a BS Physics into a screaming recession and what turned out to be an 8 year hiring freeze for the federal government. So much for my plan to w*rk for the USGS as a geophysicist. :(
So I w*rked as a small engine mechanic (again), PT substitute teacher, hardware/paint clerk, cleaned houses (again), and took some programming courses. I eventually got into computer system management (private sector) and was not able to return to anything purely scientific until 1988 (federal j*b). Then I was able to take graduate level Engineering courses while w*rking for the Fed.

Today's college graduates need to understand that they have to be flexible and stick to it. No j*b in their field? Put away the crying towel, and take some post Bachelor's broadening courses.
It ain't rocket science! :cool:
 
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I agree with Freebird - if you can't get a job in your field, then it's time to change fields. I think people tend to forget that jobs and careers are not always synonymous. I was just thankful to have any kind of a paying job in my early years. I picked vegetables, processed cattle, flipped burgers, worked in a trophy manufacturing company, did some office work, and then lucked into an entry level customer service job in a Megacorp and found I had almost unlimited possibilities there.

I never once stood around with my hands in my pockets doing a pity-party. I couldn't afford to...
 
When there are 15 million un/underemployed people and 3 million jobs available, what one studies makes a difference, but only up to a point. To call them whiners is cruel, but more importantly, it misses the point.
 
This link quotes real data that is significant.

Lifetime Earnings Soar with Education – How a Higher Education Leads to Higher Lifetime Earnings

HS vs BA vs MBA vs PhD earnings have been significant in every article read.

What you can question is the cost of the degree. If child goes to an expensive institution, and the degree does not directly relate to a career, it will be more challenging to overtake the hs student who goes right to work and chalks up 4-5 years of earnings while college graduate mounts $25-50K of debt.
 
Hell, I would have babysat, mowed lawns and shoveled snow if it came down to that. ;)

I guess my point was if there are no j*bs, you need to be creative and find something to do outside the traditional routes.

Employment environment in 1980.

http://stats.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1981/02/art1full.pdf
Creativity and a non-traditional approach is good advice, as is baby sitting, mowing lawns, etc. It may help you, or me, and a few more. But it does not help the other 10M+ unemployed.

When we look at this by individual we see training, attitude and personal initiative as the solution. In aggregate, however, the problem is the shortage of jobs, not a poor work ethic.
 
I really didn't expect that; if my recollection is correct, statistics would say that a B.S.E.E. is more marketable than a Ph.D in Oceanography. I would advise any young person in college to hit the books hard as an undergrad, since if you don't, you may not be able to get a graduate assistantship (and who could pay for grad school these days without one and the free tuition it generally includes?).

Anyone that has the brains and perseverence to go that far is impressive in my mind. W2R, have you considered a part time job helping retirees set up their reef aquariums?

images
 
Creativity and a non-traditional approach is good advice, as is baby sitting, mowing lawns, etc. It may help you, or me, and a few more. But it does not help the other 10M+ unemployed.
.............

Ironically, we have 12 million undocumented workers in this country and they are...........nannies, lawn mowers, etc. They are doing jobs that most Americans consider beneath them.
 
Ironically, we have 12 million undocumented workers in this country and they are...........nannies, lawn mowers, etc. They are doing jobs that most Americans consider beneath them.
About half that number are children, seniors or others that do not work. The labor force has 5.2% of undocumented workers. Many of these are jobs that employers (unlawfully) pay no payroll taxes, including nannies and lawn care. Cracking down on businesses (and individuals) that employ without complying with labor laws would be helpful for employment and also Social Security and Medicare funding. What jobs people are willing to take is not clear, but the measure should not be vs. unlawful exploitation.
 
The impression I get from some young people, is they have the illusion that a college degree is somehow a guarantee that they are shielded from working low hourly wage jobs. When that proves to be untrue, they return home to their sympathetic parents, rather than take what jobs are available.
 
Just for fun and to give myself a reality check on employment opportunites in a chronic economically depressed area (upstate NY) , I went to indeed.com and did a search on "minimum wage" j*bs within 50 miles of Utica NY.

I was very surprised at the results. If you scroll down to the Related Searches, there are quite a few j*bs out there.
Minimum Wage Jobs, Employment in Utica, NY | Indeed.com

Same geographical area, this time using keywords "bachelor degree".
Bachelor Degree Jobs, Employment in Utica, NY | Indeed.com
 
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Our niece's husband dropped out of med school to be a full time pilot. He now flies corporate, and is going back to school - photography. I can't figure that one out - can't see where the secure jobs are. Nor can I figure out why at the age of 56 I want to go back and get a degree in history. I'm not looking for a job. Maybe one's passion for a degree isn't related to their need for employment as much as I once thought it was.
 
Sometimes I think this board should be called, "The Glass House ER Forum". When you were in college, in the good old days, everyone studied hard and joined "worthwhile" groups like student government and never skipped class or did anything crazy? That tells me that you missed the 60s. It also tells me that no one here graduated during the 70s oil crisis, or the 80s crisis, or the 90s recession, or the 00 dot bomb. Or, perhaps, everyone here is an economic automaton, always making the correct decisions since they were 3 years old.

Empathy isn't a four letter word.
 
I graduated in the early 90s recession and delivered pizza for several months until I landed a job with a car rental agency. Great use for my economics degree, but within a year or two I had started my real career. The problem now is that that period of struggling seems to be extended and that student loan load is not real forgiving.
 
There are always j*bs available. The question is how much time is one willing spend for what amount of $ or in kind return, and what the nature of the poop scooping is.

Some think mucking out stalls is beneath their BS or MS in basketweaving, and go off to oocupy wall street, others find it helpful in putting food on the table. Until something more likeable or at least tolerable comes along with more $$.

I went to w*rk for the railroad as grease monkey with a BS, right alongside with guys with BSEE's and MSs and one MBA and another w/BS in chemistry. The job market sucked. 3 years later as a management type I was still interviewing guys with BSEE for grease monkey jobs. 40 job openings, for light Rail startup, 900 + applicants. That is not a misprint really 900 + applied.

Yeah, the job market still sucked. 6 years later we could not get anyone with HS diploma to walk in the the door for $14/hr and knowing nothing, in spite of the gold plated health benefits.

By now I'sure they are back to cherry picking EEs and MBAs for grease monkey jobs.

I just can't work up any sympathy for the unemployed.
 
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There are always j*bs available. The question is how much time is one willing spend for what amount of $ or in kind return, and what the nature of the poop scooping is.

Some think mucking out stalls is beneath their BS or MS in basketweaving, and go off to oocupy wall street, others find it helpful in putting food on the table. Until something more likeable or at least tolerable comes along with more $$.

I went to w*rk for the railroad as grease monkey with a BS, right alongside with guys with BSEE's and MSs and one MBA and another w/BS in chemistry. The job market sucked. 3 years later as a management type I was still interviewing guys with BSEE for grease monkey jobs. 40 job openings, for light Rail startup, 900 + applicants. That is not a misprint really 900 + applied.

Yeah, the job market still sucked. 6 years later we could not get anyone with HS diploma to walk in the the door for $14/hr and knowing nothing, in spite of the gold plated health benefits.

By now I'sure they are back to cherry picking EEs and MBAs for grease monkey jobs.

I just can't work up any sympathy for the unemployed.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Actually, my summer j*bs as a vacuum cleaner/small engine/automotive "grease monkey" for Sears and then post bachelor's j*b as a small engine mechanic for Wards, helped me out later on. I knew how mechanical and simple electrical components fit together, was used to reading parts diagrams, and locating the failure points in a system. I learned how to diagnose, prepare estimates of repair, and do the w*rk. :)
 
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When we look at this by individual we see training, attitude and personal initiative as the solution. In aggregate, however, the problem is the shortage of jobs, not a poor work ethic.
About half that number are children, seniors or others that do not work. The labor force has 5.2% of undocumented workers. Many of these are jobs that employers (unlawfully) pay no payroll taxes, including nannies and lawn care. Cracking down on businesses (and individuals) that employ without complying with labor laws would be helpful for employment and also Social Security and Medicare funding. What jobs people are willing to take is not clear, but the measure should not be vs. unlawful exploitation.
I think the point here is that some unemployed choose to go out and find their own jobs, even if the Bureau of Labor insists that they don't exist. Others wait for their calls to be returned, and a few go home (or go occupy somewhere else). Some job seekers thrive on adversity, others quit at the first sign of it. Which would you hire?

Any suggestions on how to help the last two groups? It doesn't seem to be very effective to hunt them down and stuff a roll of taxpayer cash in their faces.

Alabama is finding out what happens when them durn illegal immigrants (and their legal friends) are driven outta town:
Why Americans Won't Do Dirty Jobs - Businessweek

Sometimes I think this board should be called, "The Glass House ER Forum". When you were in college, in the good old days, everyone studied hard and joined "worthwhile" groups like student government and never skipped class or did anything crazy? That tells me that you missed the 60s. It also tells me that no one here graduated during the 70s oil crisis, or the 80s crisis, or the 90s recession, or the 00 dot bomb. Or, perhaps, everyone here is an economic automaton, always making the correct decisions since they were 3 years old.
Empathy isn't a four letter word.
I pulled plenty of crazy/stupid tricks in college, but I went to one that had a guaranteed government-employment program after graduation... they even let me shoot guns and blow up stuff.

I suspect that the people who post to this forum are quite accustomed to confronting adversity, and indeed have little patience for those who are intimidated by it. No glass houses here...
 
Okay, so you're a fifty-something white collar w*rker bee, and you find yourself rightsized. Now, I've seen plenty of fifty-somethings waiting tables or running a register at Wallyworld, but, frankly, many employers won't hire a college grad, white collar whatever, because they know that as soon as something else comes along, away goes the new hiree.

And many manual labor jobs are hard work, the kind that kicks the assets of a fifty-something former desk jockey.

Plus, while you're scooping poop ten hours a day, you aren't able to look for a "real" job. So, not much sympathy for someone who won't work, but it's a bit more complicated that "get a job, you lazy bum"...

Having said that, a stint in one of those kinds of jobs will definitely "inspire" you to find an alternative!
 
Alabama is finding out what happens when them durn illegal immigrants (and their legal friends) are driven outta town:
Why Americans Won't Do Dirty Jobs - Businessweek

Alabama farmers are finding out what happens when they pay an illegal laborer only $60 (no employment taxes needed!) for 10-12 hours of work and then try to do the same to a legal employee.

I suspect that the people who post to this forum are quite accustomed to confronting adversity, and indeed have little patience for those who are intimidated by it. No glass houses here...

Or people are just very nostalgic (=forgetful).

Even if we are all way above average, most people aren't. We can whine about their whining and how they're lazy do-nothings...or we create jobs for them.
 
\Or people are just very nostalgic (=forgetful).

Yeah, I try to forget all those years when I (and most of my friends) had to moonlight at menial jobs in order to make a living wage. But when the whiners whine about that while not even considering the possibility of moonlighting at McDonald's, mowing lawns, doing housecleaning, or similar demeaning jobs, I am unfortunately reminded of that. Luckily not all young people are whiners (just a few, IMO) and there are many, many very admirable folks working hard at whatever jobs they can find in order to try to survive this tough economy.
 
I think the point here is that some unemployed choose to go out and find their own jobs, even if the Bureau of Labor insists that they don't exist. Others wait for their calls to be returned, and a few go home (or go occupy somewhere else). Some job seekers thrive on adversity, others quit at the first sign of it. Which would you hire?
This is an oversimplification. I acknowledge your point and that made by others. People looking for employment or job improvement need to work hard just to do that, and when they can’t find what they want, they need to work harder. I do take issue with calling unemployed people whiners and blaming them for being unemployed. All this does is allow people to blame the victim and then turn away without regard or remedy. There are 15 million under/unemployed and 3 million jobs open. This is a crisis, not an opportunity to criticize the unemployed. Are there unemployed whiners? Yes. But there are many more that are doing the right things, not getting results and frightened that the outcome may be permanently bad.
Any suggestions on how to help the last two groups? It doesn't seem to be very effective to hunt them down and stuff a roll of taxpayer cash in their faces.
Endless transfers to unemployed people limit suffering but don’t solve problems. The same holds true for deficit spending.

As for suggestions, this problem has been building for decades and will be quite difficult to fix. Aggregate demand in the US is inadequate so substantially higher levels of employment mean either producing for export or greater fiscal spending. Certainly there is an absolute absence of any kind of intelligent federal policy on this. In the spirit of non-partisanship, the absence of policy has characterized our gov’t for decades. I think we desperately need an industrial policy to focus on sustainable job creation that pay living wages, an energy policy that brings to 0 our net energy trade balance, and an effective and realistic immigration policy.

Colleges and Universities must get more involved - they have no skin in this game. Require them to hold half the total debt any student incurs and make that debt eligible for bankruptcy. Also make them liable for half of gov’t aid if their graduates fall into financial trouble. That will get them to sit up and take notice.

Set up a two track high secondary school system. One for college bound students and the other for direct to work or technical school students.

New housing construction is a critical component of employment and economic growth. To stabilize it and allow it grow at a more naturally sustainable level it needs to be freed of stimulus and gov’t incentive. The busts are so harsh because the boom was overstimulated.

For more immediate impact, we absolutely need a more aggressive approach dealing with employers who violate labor laws. The punishment has to be more effective in discouraging this behavior. Finally, an infrastructure bank with $500B initial funding would serve two purposes – generate between 2-3M jobs directly and another half more indirect jobs, and improve our physical infrastructure, which has been and will continue to be key to our global competitiveness.

Just some random thoughts as I recover from food hangover.
 
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Sometimes I think this board should be called, "The Glass House ER Forum". When you were in college, in the good old days, everyone studied hard and joined "worthwhile" groups like student government and never skipped class or did anything crazy? That tells me that you missed the 60s. It also tells me that no one here graduated during the 70s oil crisis, or the 80s crisis, or the 90s recession, or the 00 dot bomb. Or, perhaps, everyone here is an economic automaton, always making the correct decisions since they were 3 years old.

Empathy isn't a four letter word.

I see a lot more 'attitude' in your post than the the ones you're seemingly addressing.

Nords said it well enough, I won't go on.


-ERD50
 
There are people who need jobs and jobs who need people.
1. Move to where the jobs are available
2. Change your skillset / expectations to match available jobs in your area

I realize moving may not be easy if you have a mortgage and can't sell the house. I realize leaving family behind to start over in a new place is difficult. I realize changing skillset to match existing jobs makes one start at the bottom of that "career" ladder. I realize changing expectations of income is difficult if the outgo (bills) is significant.

The high schools in our rural counties already offer an academic and a technical track. Young people in our local high school can graduate with a certification in welding, a certified nursing assistance, or a pharmacy tech (all in demand). More training is being added each year. The local junior college is offering an associates in Petrolium Technology and walk into waiting jobs. What makes these schools different is the training centers work closely with major corporations to identify and train for blue collar jobs that are or will be in demand. They do a good job of matching skillset to opportunity.

There seems to be a lot of "who's causing what" this past year. Remember the sociology / psychology courses in college - where you were asked to consider if nurture (family) or nature (environment) influenced the person we were to become? I believe it's our choices that define us. That's why some people can achieve great things with so little.
 
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There are always j*bs available. The question is how much time is one willing spend for what amount of $ or in kind return, and what the nature of the poop scooping is.

Some think mucking out stalls is beneath their BS or MS in basketweaving, and go off to oocupy wall street, others find it helpful in putting food on the table. Until something more likeable or at least tolerable comes along with more $$.

I went to w*rk for the railroad as grease monkey with a BS, right alongside with guys with BSEE's and MSs and one MBA and another w/BS in chemistry. The job market sucked. 3 years later as a management type I was still interviewing guys with BSEE for grease monkey jobs. 40 job openings, for light Rail startup, 900 + applicants. That is not a misprint really 900 + applied.

Yeah, the job market still sucked. 6 years later we could not get anyone with HS diploma to walk in the the door for $14/hr and knowing nothing, in spite of the gold plated health benefits.

By now I'sure they are back to cherry picking EEs and MBAs for grease monkey jobs.

I just can't work up any sympathy for the unemployed.

I agree with you for the most part. One thing that I think may set them apart from us is that they may have racked up a huge amount of debt to get to the degree.
 
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