College tuition: How much is too much?

[ReadySetGo]

We have been in this situation with three kids, and our youngest just made a decision to attend an out of state school like her older siblings. Each got merit scholarships, and each went back to the departments of interest speaking of their intended contributions and requested additional scholarship money. Two were successful. We allocated a certain amount of money and set a limit that we would allow them to borrow from us, to make up the difference between scholarships and actual cost, calculated with inflation. One of my kids had to pass on the dream school because it was untenable financially. He is very happy, though, where he ended up. All three of my kids have or will graduate early. They have been willing to be creative and to save themselves a semester’s worth of money. They had skin in the game, worked to devise a solution, and worked hard to support their decision. Your son may also consider working during school, trying to secure an RA position or getting ahead in credits and then paying by the credit hour as a part-time student to finish up. There are options to consider. I will also add that for my oldest, I believe that attendance at her top choice has assisted her in securing her dream job in New York City. For my second, I do not think that he will have that same outcome simply for the school that he attended. It’s a very difficult decision for both parents and kids, but very challenging for an 18-year-old to truly consider the impact of a tremendous loan on their future. I wish you and your son the very best as you make this very difficult decision.

 

[rayinpenn]

DD BS Applied Mathematics / Computer Science from Pitt - Satellite Campus under $24K all in a year. Great grades, Penn State MS Computer Engineering 2/3 done straight As. Job, No debt happy as as a pig... perhaps MBA Wharton next- Certainly has the grades.
DS Junior in Spring, Computer Science/Physics/Mathematics on Penn State, same deal will have no debt.

A 19 year old freshman is likely to change his/her mind about what they want to do with their lives. Knowing this, does it make sense to invest a fortune in an undergraduate degree? If he or she changes their mind they can still get that “great school” graduate degree.

If your kid wants to study journalism and gets into NYU, Columbia etc then you spend the money because an undergraduate degree is likely to be sufficient. Psychology err not so much.

 

[flintnational]

My desired career path at various ages.

05 - Dump truck driver (all 5 yo boys want to drive a dump truck)
16 - Forest Ranger (liked to hunt and fish)
18 - Business/Accounting Major at State U (hated my first accounting class)
19 - Briefly contemplated dental school (Yuck, fingers in peoples' mouths)
19 - Business elective class in Risk Management (Loved it and made it my major and career)

To this day I am glad my parents did not send me to an exclusive Forest Ranger school.

 

[Bigdawg]

My desired career path at various ages.

05 - Dump truck driver (all 5 yo boys want to drive a dump truck)
16 - Forest Ranger (liked to hunt and fish)
18 - Business/Accounting Major at State U (hated my first accounting class)
19 - Briefly contemplated dental school (Yuck, fingers in peoples' mouths)
19 - Business elective class in Risk Management (Loved it and made it my major and career)

To this day I am glad my parents did not send me to an exclusive Forest Ranger school.

05-Met Dick Butkus=pro football player
16-Good athlete but realized I probably wasn't going pro. Met girls. Wow!
18-Passed up D2 full ride for hoops to walk on D1 football (big 10). Was in over my head
19-Transfered to D3 school to play hoops and football (study? what's that?)
19-22-Changed majors 3 times
23-Sister passed, GF dumped me and buddy died all in 3 month period.
24-Joined USMC
Should have done the 24 thing at 18. Oh well.

Only one pysch major friend is working in that field.

 

[Bestwifeever]

My DD’s roommate was a psych major and has stayed in the field doing academic research (and now has her PhD, and is supremely happy). But I remember her saying if she had a minor in business that so many other doors would have opened for her out of undergrad. So have your son seriously consider that?

Sometimes I think a bunch of kids should pool their tuition money and hire their own college profs, the full costs are so insane. Other options: Out-of-”state” tuition at Oxford and Cambridge is 9,250 pounds, or just over $12,000 today.

I do love that you seem to have a good relationship with your son and respecting him enough to listen to his still-forming college plans is truly admirable. You must be a great dad.

 

[ivinsfan]

OP I won't add to the list of people who say at 16 he won't be ready. He's obviously an exceptional young man. I will address the issue of you worrying a certain school won't be "hard" enough. Intro classes are intro classes no matter where you take them, you'll get a TA not a professor.

The biggest challenge will be social and mental, he'll 16 living on his own, with kids 18-19 years old. That's light years in personal development. He'll see campus parties, kids in sexual relationships and on and on. I would say less school demands the first year or two gives him more time to catchup on the social side and more time to think and rethink the path he wants in school.

Though I might gripe about living in a high tax, state my 2 DD benefited tremendously from our fantastic public school systems. Due to their high class rank at our tiny school(class size around 40) They were able to attend for zero cost a CC less then 12 miles from our farm. Even the books were free. Our oldest got a AA degree four days before her HS graduation. Youngest attended both schools junior and senior year and got almost 2 years worth of transferable credits.

They were both admitted to the U of M business school with scholarships and graduated in 3 years..our oldest with a double major.

Now of course the money impact was huge, but the social transition from tiny school, to local CC, to campus of 50K went seamlessly for both of them. They have nothing but good memories of their time at the U.

Everything I've read about Cali schools. is good, so I don't think you can go wrong with an in state option.

 

[RAE]

If the kid needs a Master's or PhD to have a viable career in that field, strongly suggest he do the undergrad work in-state and spend that kind of money on the graduate work.

Personally, there is no way I'd spend 250K on a degree that left one of my kids unemployable in their field without further education.

+1, same thoughts I had.

 

[Texas Proud]

I would fund an in-state public school for the first two years. Your son will be 2 years older, will have experience in college and you both will be in a better position to decide if the high priced education is worthwhile. I cannot think of a single reason to pay for an expensive school for the first two years. (Personally, I would spend the two years encouraging a change in majors.)

My sister has a Phd and does research at the university level. She had a full merit scholarship for her undergrad. Like many of us, she tired of college after four years and entered the job market. It was only after a few years of research based work that she decided she enjoyed the field and went back to get her masters and Phd. She could have just as easily decided she did not like the field.

My DW and I both changed majors in college. I ended up majoring in a field I had never heard of when I was 18. It ended up being a very good career path.

I was going to say the same... do 2 years in state and then transfer...


Also, I want to throw something else out there... not all PHD candidates get their PHD... my brother is an example... he got his undergrad in psychology and went to grad school... was going for the PHD... well, he got to the end and pissed of someone on his board and they refused to give him one... he got a Masters in Education, Masters in Labor & Human
Resources... enough hours for PHD in Psychology and PHD in Labor & Human Resources... got neither PHD.... taught for a couple of years at LSU but then went to work doing computer programming and systems management... has been doing that work for 30+ years.. none of his education really matches what he does...

 

[nhcycling]

My POV is whatever your in state university cost is for tuition, room and board is what you should pay for undergraduate education. It’s just not worth paying a penny more. Save the $ for graduate education.

 

[Spock]

In my freshman year of electrical engineering, the Dean of the engineering college addressed the freshman class with this:
"Look at the person on your right.
Now look at the person on your left
Four years from now, one of them won't be here".

If you look at just about every age distribution on college enrollment it is shaped like a pyramid... way more freshmen than seniors. Thats not just from population growth of larger numbers kids starting college it is also attrition.

English 101 is English 101 whether you're a psych, chemist, or engineering major. Go to an accredited school to get the first 2 years out of the way and let his psych major choice either solidify or change in a more cost effective environment. As a research psychologist he may have a distaste for experimenting with lab rats and monkeys.

 

[Chuckanut]

I am curious.

Are the scholarships he has been offered for one year or all four years of college?

I have heard of students getting scholarships for year one, then- Surprise!- nothing is offered after that.

 

[cathy63]

We are in CA and he applied to 4 in-state schools. He was accepted by 2 CSUs (San Diego and Monterey Bay), wait listed for UC Santa Cruz, denied for UC San Diego. And since he was in the top 9% of seniors in the state the UC system guarantees him a spot "somewhere" if none of his UC applications result in an offer, so technically there is a spot for him at UC Merced (otherwise known as "somewhere").
...
Schools 2, 3 & 4 are U of Oregon, U of Hawaii & CSU Monterey Bay (listed in order of cost, high to low, not his preference as they are all tied for second place. These are the schools that are still in contention. He's made pro/con lists for all of them, but none of them even come close to how he feels about UW.

I've been through this with a DD who didn't get into the UCs other than Merced. She ended up at Rutgers in NJ due to a good scholarship offer, but she was a lot more mature socially than most 16 yr old boys I've known, and she was 18 before she started the fall semester, and even so there were still some struggles. Everything turned out o.k., but looking back, it would have been better for her to spend the first couple of years at a state school.

If I were in your situation, I think I'd be willing to pay for the first 2 years at Monterey Bay, UC Merced, or UCSC if he clears the wait list. He's a strong student who's earned a chance to take on an academic challenge greater than what he'd find at a CC, but he's also a minor who's looking at 7 or more years of higher ed. I think it would be entirely reasonable for you to say that with those long-term expenses on the horizon, he needs to postpone his dream of going to UW and stay in state for 2 years, then transfer there as a Junior. It's a compromise that keeps him nearby while he's younger, but still gives him the quality academics that will get him to where he wants to be in the long run. If he's still set on Psych and UW two years from now, then the school will still be there and if he keeps his grades up, they'll still be interested in him.

 

[ocean view]

Well, I'm glad to hear that the collective ER wisdom sounds a lot like my inner voices and so to answer my original question - yes, $53K is too much to pay for a 16yo freshman.

As DS was leaving for school this morning he said he would have time this afternoon to research the earnings potential for a psych degree to help him in his decision. I'm going to throw out this "option" to him (you have to word it carefully, so he thinks it is an option and that it is his decision) - attend CSU Monterey Bay for at least 2 years and then transfer to UW or somewhere else for the last years of undergrad study. This will not only ensure that the 529 lasts 4 years, but give him a softer transition to college. It's not making him go to CC, he's away from home, but not two states away, only 70 miles. It is a small campus with only 7000 students (not 40,000), built on the former Fort Ord military base in the middle of a small town. IF he is still a psych major in 2 years and IF he wants to transfer, he'll be 19 years old, similar in age as all of the other freshmen. He'll still have plenty of time to have the BIG college/BIG city experience, and actually be old enough to have the experiences outside of school.

We attended an open house at the Monterey campus a few weeks ago and heard presentation by the head of the psych department. They said their goal is not just to send you out the door with a diploma, but to ensure that you can, in fact, get gainful employment in your chosen field. And on the flip side, we attended a similar presentation from UW held in Palo Alto where the admissions rep literally said "Remember, your major does NOT need to be your career." I nearly blew a gasket in the car driving home.

Someone asked about the scholarship offers - they are offered for all for four years, contingent on maintaining a B average and taking a full course load (12-15 units/term). UNM also offers to refund your last semester of tuition if you complete your degree in 8 semesters, granted that's only a $3500 savings, but still, I don't see UW offering that.


I'll keep you posted on his decision.

many thanks, again, for all of your wisdom

 

[ocean view]

You must be a great dad.

Thank you for the compliment, I might make a great dad, but I'm an even better Mom!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Just some food for thought, but if you are interested, the more selective types of schools like U.C. Berkeley are usually much easier to get into as a transfer student from a CC than right out of college. Plus the CCs have various transfer programs in place with guaranteed admissions to some colleges, even some in state private ones.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Few if any community colleges have teaching assistants. so at a community college, you will almost certainly get a regular faculty member.

On the other hand, just because someone is on the faculty, or has a lot of credentials, does not make them a good teacher. Some of my worst college teachers were tenured faculty with terminal degrees. A couple of my best college teachers were graduate student teaching assistants.

 

[tmm99]

I know this isn't what you're asking, but he is only 16. Does he truly know social psych is what he wants to do the rest of his life? I personally feel he could go to a cheaper school and experience life and see where he wants to go. First 2 years are full of general education classes anyway with some introductory classes for your major, so he could try different classes and see where he wants to end up? In the meantime, having information on what kind of jobs are available for each field and what kind of money can be made in each field may be helpful. He may have an unrealistic idea of how tough it is to gain employment and to make good money. (I personally had no idea until I graduated from univ. I wish someone gave me some education in this early on...) I was a psych major too, and I was told in the early '80s that people who major in psych are usually people who are into helping other people without caring much about compensation because there was no money in it. With an undergraduate degree, you could get a minimum wage job helping rape victims, people with addition, etc. Becoming a social worker with a master's was a noble job also, but doesn't pay much. Even with a Ph.D., the starting salary was 15K then (Even in the early '80s, that seemed low to me.) The only way to make money was to go private as a clinical psychologist with a Ph.D. or get a master's in HR type of field (Organizational psych? I can't remember). Anyway that was what a career counselor at the Univ of AZ told me. After this reality check, I decided to go back to school for Computer Science (I ended up quitting though because the study got me in the door in the IT field and they trained me... I don't think stuff like that happens anymore though. Everyone in the computer field nowadays has a CS degree.

 

[zinger1457]

Not directly related to this thread but '60 Minutes' did a recent story on medical school cost and the heavy debt (~$200K) many students end up with after graduating and what some schools are doing to deal with it. NYU medical school now offers free tuition to all medical students thanks to some generous donations. Other medical schools are looking into the free tuition model but only for med students that go into medical fields (primary care, etc.) that are expected to have a significant shortage in coming years.

 

[ivinsfan]

OP you did say the MB school was ranked in his second choice tier so that might help with that decision. Who wouldn't want to go to school in MB...?

I hope it goes well and you come to an agreement without too much angst.

 

[Brat]

I think UC Monterey is the best choice. He can get all of his required classes that are transferable and it is not so large that he will get lost by his teachers. A 16 yo can get a little silly when first away from home. Monterey is far enough to be away from his parent's daily oversight but close enough for a quick visit. Assuming he can keep his academics at a high level encourage him to take a speech class, particularly if he can audit it.

 

[ncbill]

One way to pay less for an out-of-state public school is to see if being a member of that state's National Guard waives tuition/fees (at that state's public schools)

That's what my youngest would have done had they not received a ROTC scholarship to their current private school.

Though that particular state requires Guard members to have finished both basic & advanced camp before becoming eligible for education benefits, so he would have had to defer for a semester.

 

[ocean view]

I know this isn't what you're asking, but he is only 16. Does he truly know social psych is what he wants to do the rest of his life? I personally feel he could go to a cheaper school and experience life and see where he wants to go.

Truthfully, no, I don't think he really knows what he'd like to do for the rest of his life. None of us did at that age. But it is an area that sparked an interest more than any of his other HS courses, so it's a starting point. And in the event it does come to fruition I feel like we need to be prepared with a plan for post-undergrad education.

His other area of interest is linguistics, but he's realizes that this is more of a passion project than a career path.

thank god, we only have one child...

 

[SecondCor521]

As an additional comment - if you do decide to do a local school for two years then have him transfer to UW (I think it's a good plan, BTW, but not my kid, so...): be aware that for transfer students with two years of college credits, UW will probably not care at all about any of his high school accomplishments and will mostly or only care about his college transcript. Ask UW of course, but I bet that's pretty close to what they'll say.

 

[Katsmeow]

I think the transfer plan is a good one and gives him a lot of options.

Since several people brought up the 16 thing I want to address that. My son is in his mid-20s now, but from the time he was 6 I was a member of a number of mailing lists related to gifted kids. In many cases, I feel like those kids grew up with me in that when I started they were in elementary school and now they are graduated. Of course, I was hearing about them through the lens of their parents.

Gifted kids who finish high school early vary a lot. From interacting with my own son who graduated high school at 15 and interacting with parents of other kids who graduated early, my perception is that the kids fall within 3 groups:

1. Very intellectually advanced kids who are also more mature than their age peers in all areas. Many of these kids do really well in college, even living at a dorm at a young age. They are academically inclined and are able to focus and do well in college and don't get in a lot of trouble. These are the kids who didn't struggle in high school with deadlines and are self starters and are organized and don't feel a lot of peer pressure.

If you have a child who fits this mold, great. The biggest problem I have seen is that sometimes parents thing a child fits this mold when they really belong in group 2 or 3.

Having said this -- these kids often change their major. 18 and 19 year olds change their majors and 16 and 17 year olds will do it just as much or more.

2. This group is just as intellectually advanced as the kids in group 1, but they are not exceptionally mature in other ways. These kids can struggle with things like time management, being self-starters, etc. If they are struggling with any of this in high school, they will not be cured by going to college. These are kids who may do fine in college at a young age, but may not be ready to go live in a dorm. These are also kids who can do well in a controlled environment with mom and dad, but can struggle with peer pressure and may act more recklessly when on their own. FWIW, I think this is a really large group of kids. These are the kids who may do better going to CC or a local university and living at home for a year or two before going to a dorm.

3. This group is just as intellectually advanced as the kids in group 1 and 2, but these kids are what is called twice exceptional. That is they have some challenge such as ADHD, or Asperger's or a learning disability. They are super bright but have some area of challenge. The most common of these is probably ADHD. These are kids who if they go straight to college and living in a dorm may have real difficulty. I can't tell you the times that I have heard a parent want to send their child to college and the child can't meet their deadlines in high school without help from parents. Well, they go to college and don't meet their deadlines because they don't have their mom as their frontal lobe any more.

My son had ADHD and fit in this group. I was not willing to send him to live at school until he had spent a semester in our home managing all of his deadlines on his own. Once he proved he had matured enough to do it then, I sent him to live at school (he was 20).

FWIW -- the comments in group 3 even apply to kids once they get to be 18. They don't magically get able to meet their deadlines and responsibilities just by turning a certain age.

So -- whether it is a good idea for a 16 year old to go away to school really depends on that 16 year old and where he or she is in these groups. For some, they are ready and do well. Others aren't ready and may do better with other choices.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Thank you for the compliment, I might make a great dad, but I'm an even better Mom!

omg why did I think you were a dad? yes, supergood mom to listen to and respect your teen!