did someone say 'draft'?

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061119/pl_nm/usa_politics_draft_dc

 

[dumpster56]

Oh man its cold in this room, gotta head over to the Home Depot for some weather stripping. Very drafty!!

 

[Patrick]

Oh man its cold in this room, gotta head over to the Home Depot for some weather stripping. Very drafty!!

Looks like you're gonna get what you wanted. Hope you're happy.

 

[brewer12345]

Eh, its just Charlie Rangel playing politics again. He'll introduce the bill, make some noise, and it will go nowhere (probably won't even make it out of committee).

Back to pics of 8008135...

 

[Caroline]

First he says this...

Rangel, who opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq, also said he did not think the United States would have invaded Iraq if the children of members of Congress were sent to fight. He has said the U.S. fighting force is comprised disproportionately of people from low-income families and minorities.

"I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft. I think to do so is hypocritical," he said.

Then he says THIS...

Rangel said his legislation on the draft would also offer the alternative of a couple of years of public service with educational benefits.

Who the heck does he think is going to be first in line for the "alternative" and have the connections to make sure they're accepted? The poor kids

Bah!

 

[Patrick]

Who the heck does he think is going to be first in line for the "alternative" and have the connections to make sure they're accepted? The poor kids

Bah!

Yeah. He also said he wants do away with the AMT but has no idea where he'll get billions in shortfall that would create. WTF?

 

[Patrick]

Here's a link to the draft bill he introduced back in February:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.4752:

 

[dumpster56]

Here's a link to the draft bill he introduced back in February:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.4752:

That is the trouble with you guys, I never said I wanted a draft, I said we would need a draft to deal with Iran, North Korea and others who would see that when we put 5 milliion men into a uniform that we really meant business. The Iranians know that we do not have the forces to attack them, they also know we want their oil on the market, funny how last week Bush said he wanted sanctions against Iran that LEFT OUT OIL AND GAS!!

if you are serious about nailing the Iranians to the wall over their nuke plans you gotta understand that their oil their lifeblood should be fair game and that NOT ONE country should purchase their oil.

It is a real mess. Plus nobody is talking to each other these days.

Yes a draft, Charlie Rangel another useless politician who was in office on 9/11. And still is. He should be gone like the repubs Bin Laden is still free.I hold both parties of our elected officials feet to the fire when they have failed the american people which in the last 5 years they all have.

 

[Patrick]

That is the trouble with you guys, I never said I wanted a draft . . .

Your previous post:

I hate to say thie but america needs a military draft .
« on: November 13, 2006, 08:00:54 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We need to show the Iranians that we mean business. Otherwise they will have a nuclear weapon.

We need a 5 million man army AGAIN. Rumsfeld is gone and his ideas well look at Iraq do not work. Smaller faster, yada yada yada.

No we need bigtime boots on the ground from all walks of american society.

Not just people who join.

OK, I get it. You don't "want" it, we just really "need" it. I see it now . . .

 

[dumpster56]

Your previous post:

OK, I get it. You don't "want" it, we just really "need" it. I see it now . . .

Sometimes its the whisky talkin

 

[Patrick]

Sometimes its the whisky talkin

Red or Black?

 

[dumpster56]

Red or Black?

Black, a good friend gave me a nice bottle for my 50th a few months ago.

Also the Cabo Wabo Tequila is a nice change of pace.

Look I am really not as crazy as some of the threads I have started, I am just about finished with my teaching contract I ER on Dec 22.

Then I can go home to NC for good and get the heck out of NJ!

Then a part time job at a wine store or whole foods, and I will be coaching a varsity High School Track team.

It really is all good

 

[lets-retire]

This goes with my statement that the people talking about needing a draft are the lefties not the Righties. If even a couple Righties would bring up to possibility of a draft then it would not look so much like the Lefties attempting to scare the American people into something, like normal.

 

[Nords]

Back to pics of 8008135...

Very subtle, I like it! Or maybe it just takes a particular "world outlook"...

 

[mickeyd]

I suspect that when Rep. Rangel floated this draft trial balloon a few years ago that he was not really serious, but now that his will be a committee head he has to come up with ideas that are radically different than the GOP so this may be one of them. I'm sure that he is hoping that it makes it's way through the entire process so Bush can veto it.

One benefit that the draft in the 50s, 60s and 70s provided was that it also forced young males to look at the military as a career. I use my self as an example. I had always hated the military, not for political reasons but just could not see myself in it. So I joined the Army so I could go to OCS and become a 2LT rather than being enlisted for two years as a draftee. I would never have done it w/o the draft. I stayed on active duty almost 4 years and continued in the reserves for another 20.

I found out that I really liked the Army and the opportunities that it gave me. One of the best moves that I ever made was prompted by the draft. I know of many others that entered the military under "draft duress" and ended up benefiting from it.

Making lemonaide out of lemons, I suppose.

 

[brewer12345]

One benefit that the draft in the 50s, 60s and 70s provided was that it also forced young males to look at the military as a career.

How on earth is this a "benefit" either to the individuals in question or society?

 

[FinanceDude]

How on earth is this a "benefit" either to the individuals in question or society?

Beats me...........

 

[mickeyd]

How on earth is this a "benefit" either to the individuals in question or society?

If it's not obvious to you, I understand.

 

[brewer12345]

If it's not obvious to you, I understand.

So explain. Not looking for a knock-out, drag-down. I just can't comprehend how a coerced career choise can be viewed as a "benefit."

 

[FinanceDude]

Well, there are a few folks on here who cose the military as a career..........

My dad was drafted, and while he served his time and was honorably discharged, he is far from a supporter of a draft.

He thinks the power of the military is that it is a VOLUNTEER army, so the folks there for the most part WANT to be there..........but that's just the thoughts of a guy over 70......not sure how that relates to today............

 

[mickeyd]

coerced career choice can be viewed as a "benefit."

OK here's an example for you. When I went to college I was required to take two semesters of something called "Humanities." It basically covered all of the arts, music, architecture, painting, sculpture etc. I would never have taken such a "useless" course if it were not forced on me as a requirement for graduation.

The humanities course that I took opened up an appreciation of how many things that we encountered daily are really quite artistic (i.e. architecture, city planning, public art, music, general creativity in others). I still have an appreciation of these things and they all spring from the humanities courses that I was required to take back in the day. Prior to that I had very little exposure to anything artistic and gave it little value. I now understand what value such things bring to we humans.

 

[samclem]

Brewer,
You know you ARE inviting a knock-down-drag out.

Some folks feel the same way about a national "mandatory public service" requirement, that it would expose youth to areas of public service that they would not otherwise consider, and that they might stick with it as a career, or as long-term volunteers.

Personally, I'm not a believer in this idea. I think these schemes ignore the opportunity costs to both the individual and society of this public service. Just because a person is young does not mean his/her time is valueless.

I think the most interesting idea is the one proposed by Robert Heinlein in "Starship Troopers." No one is forced into any kind of compulsory servitude, nor can anyone be refused if they want to serve. (There'd be something for anyone, regardless of handicap or ability). There'd be room for COs in service, just as there is when we had the draft. After serving, you've earned the right to vote in elections. No service, no vote.

There--that ought to stir things up.

(edited to fix typos)

 

[brewer12345]

Eh, I don't feel like taking the bait today. Rangel is just playing politics and the proposal will go nowhere. If you guys want to join up, have at it.

 

[FinanceDude]

I think the most interesting idea is the one proposed by Robert Heinlein in "Starship Troopers." No one is forced into any kind of compuilsory servitude, nor can anyone be refused if they want to serve. (there'd be something for anyone, regardless of handicap or ability). There'd be rom for COs in service, just as there is when we had the draft. After serving, you've earned the right to vote in elections. No service, no vote.

There--that ought to stir things up.

I thikn they do stuff like that in Greece........the owner of our local greenhouse/floral shop is from Greece. When he turned 18, they had a MANDATORY service requirement of 2 years for ALL males.

He said it was the best experience he ever had, and it opened his eyes to the world..............

 

[mickeyd]

No service, no vote.

Not sure that this would work here as few young adults currently take the time to vote now as it is. How about "No service, no drivers license", that might work.