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DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 06:22 PM   #1
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DIY landscaping

I subscribe to the retiree's creed: don't pay for anything that you can do yourself. But I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to landscaping, so I'm curious about how others have approached this issue.

I've got slightly less than an acre on a property we bought last year. I've already finished remodeling the house, so now it's landscaping time. Privacy shrubs, fencing, a playground for the kid, deck expansion, and basically transforming a blank slate into a "landscape."

Just looking at my list, I think I need the skills of a landscape architect, heavy machinery operator, fence builder, and botanist. I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to use an auger to dig holes for fence posts, and maybe even plumb a fence, but the rest of the stuff eludes me.

So, how did you guys approach a project like this? Farm the whole thing out? Just farm out the landscape architecture part and try to come up to speed on the rest of stuff? Or did you just wing it and end up paying a hefty tuition on your naive screw-ups?
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 06:54 PM   #2
 
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Re: DIY landscaping

Unless you need to move large quantities of earth, most of those things look doable to me.

You could get a landscape architect to give you a bid, and you'll get suggestions for types of shrubs, etc. That may sound unfair to the architect, but it's not. You can be up front about it: "Hey, I might do this myself, but I'd like to hear what you would do and how much it would cost." You're giving him a chance to convince you to use his services. So, if he says "You could plant Abogusisis finaculi here," you can consider that and do Internet research on it.

Fencing sure sounds like anybody could do it.

Extending the deck -- I'd do this only if you have some carpentry skill. Tons of books and videos on this.

Playground -- You can get a kit or design your own and use the special parts from the hardware store. I've done this and it's dead easy. I even sold the result when the kid grew up.

I've done my landscaping a little at a time, and with a long range view. For example, I used this Arctostaphylos stuff for a ground cover, since it really spreads out and puts down new roots. So I only bought five plants, and it will be a few years before it's all filled in.

So I'd say that for all your tasks, you can trade your time for money. All of those things sound like fun to me. They'll all be more rewarding if you do it yourself.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 08:25 PM   #3
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Re: DIY landscaping

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Unless you need to move large quantities of earth, most of those things look doable to me.

Fencing sure sounds like anybody could do it.

All of those things sound like fun to me.*
My God Al; you sound just like my wife

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 08:40 PM   #4
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Re: DIY landscaping

I did just about all of that stuff, including deck construction and building a fence, at my wifes old house. Even moving large quantities of earth aint so bad. I moved 3 yards of earth with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. 3 yards of WET earth.

Its really not rocket science. Its not a lot of fun to do in 100 degree weather, but aside from that it was fairly straightforward.

I would not recommend digging the post holes for the fence by hand. Concrete the posts and use pressure treated lumber for the posts and rails. I used galvanized 2x4 joist hangers as the first thing I've seen go on most fences is the ends of the rails; using the joist hangers gave me an extra inch and a half of rail that will have to rot. I bought aluminum 'caps' for all the posts to keep water from getting in through the top of the posts, thats supposed to also extend the life of the post.

For the decking I used pressure treated lumber for the framing and the 'trex' style decking for the surface and rails. It wasnt trex, it was whatever the stuff is home depot sells. It was cheaper by the foot than redwood, no splitting, no splinters, although you'll need a strong drill to put the special screws in...the stuff is tough. I was however amazed that an entirely man made product produced 12' lengths of the stuff that were not the same length. About 3/4" difference between the shortest and the longest...

Dont get any of the 'landscape designer' software. I think I tried every single package. They're all good at getting you to spend a half a day plugging in dimensions and distance before letting you know they wont do a damn thing of interest after that.

At my old mcmansion, I had a landscape architect come out to give me a design layout for back yard landscaping and a pool. I forget what it cost but it was under $500 for a complete set of plans including blueprints. For the work itself, he offered two 'plans'; one where he brought in a bunch of regular guys and one that was clearly going to employ undocumented illegal aliens to do the work; the latter was half the price. My neighbor did about the same thing only he went to the local "hiring" spot near the mall and hired his own workers and directed the labor himself. I think it cost him a couple of grand instead of 20. I never executed the plan though, deciding to save the $40k and leave the back yard 'natural'.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 08:51 PM   #5
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Re: DIY landscaping

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
....I was however amazed that an entirely man made product produced 12' lengths of the stuff that were not the same length. About 3/4" difference between the shortest and the longest...
No doubt your decking was manufactured by a woman. Not really her fault the measurements were off due to the well know problem women have with depth perception. After all, they've all been told this...

<----------------------------------------------->

...is 9 inches.

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 09:06 PM   #6
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Re: DIY landscaping

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
I subscribe to the retiree's creed: don't pay for anything that you can do yourself.* *But I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to landscaping, so I'm curious about how others have approached this issue.
<snip>
I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to use an auger to dig holes for fence posts, and maybe even plumb a fence, but the rest of the stuff eludes me.
So, how did you guys approach a project like this?* *Farm the whole thing out?* Just farm out the landscape architecture part and try to come up to speed on the rest of stuff?* *Or did you just wing it and end up paying a hefty tuition on your naive screw-ups?
Those augers can be* bitch in many of our rocky, clay soils around here. I built wire stock fence, and a cedar vertical board fence. It was fun, and pretty easy, though I dug the holes with an old fashioned clamshell post-hole digger. 30 years later it is all still standing. My sons helped, and we all feel great about it.

I farmed the landscape planning out to my wife, who didn't know anything about it either, but at least this made her more likely to be satisfied with it. And that worked. Not Butchart Gardens, but that wasn't our plan anyway.

I planted some laurals from cuttings that I rooted following directions that a friend who was studying horticulture gave me. Today they are huge trees with enormous trunks.

This may not be the best way if one is thinking about resale, etc. But if money is a large concern, it always seemed better to me to keep working, and not have that pecuniary consideration creep into everything else.

Mikey
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-06-2005, 11:40 PM   #7
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Re: DIY landscaping

I put in a three foot retaining wall for a 55 foot length of my back yard. I have a huge embankment, but my flat yard was only 15 feet wide. I realised I could gain another 9 feet with "just" a three foot no mortar retaining wall. I started with a pick axe, a shovel, a wheelbarrow and a dream. 1 year later it was done. My soil is so bad I had to get a 70 lb. demolition hammer to carve into the hill and peel away chunks like giant pie slices. I thought I learned my lesson but then I decided to run my dedicated 220v 50 amp line to the jacuzzi myself. Rented the trencher and had it done in half a day, but my back STILL hurts a month later! I hired a professional to pour my concrete side yard path and extend my patio to fit the jacuzzi. I've decided any project where I will have to look at it forever, I'm hiring a professional. Anything I can bury after I get working (like an electrical line) I'll do myself.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-07-2005, 07:37 AM   #8
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Re: DIY landscaping

Our soil is clay and rock so we ended up hiring out the fence work. Even with a super auger on wheels, crow bars, and three guys, it took the fence guys forever to dig the holes. We did roughly 250 feet of fencing.

We rented a bobcat front end loader to dig out and dump gravel in for our retaining wall. Ever since DH has wanted a bobcat for himself. My husband hired a young man to help him put in the wall. Basically to lift blocks at 70 lbs each.

Because our soil is so poor, I regret not having DH simply remove a foot or so of clay and replace it with topsoil. I talked to him about it but all he could say was where will we put all that dirt. Should have hired someone to haul it away.

I do the fun stuff--putting in plants and maintaining them.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-07-2005, 08:26 AM   #9
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Re: DIY landscaping

You guys made a beautiful wall. It looks like it has been there 100 years.

Mikey
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-07-2005, 10:12 AM   #10
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Re: DIY landscaping

Wab,
If you decide to do the plant selection and planting yourself, check with your local nursery for suggested plants/trees that do well in your area and will meet your needs for color, size, etc. I forget where you live, but it in Western US, the Sunset Western Garden book is an absolute must.

If you have heavy clay soil, either bring in better soil and plant in the new soil or spend the time to add spagnum moss, compost and other lighter soil to your planting areas. Otherwise, since clay holds more moisture than other soils, you will drown your plants.

Good luck, it can be very rewarding to do your own landscaping.

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-07-2005, 12:07 PM   #11
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Re: DIY landscaping

Short list for this year: learn to drive a bulldozer(rental), air hammer(rental) sheet piling, and put some Robertson screws into something - possibly(tbd) composite deck boards.

The optimists across the inlet have rebuilt their lower boat decks in time for hurricane season.

Already did the trencher for a new sewer line(60'). Paid Bellsouth for underground phone(400' plus). The rental trencher was a trip!

Out in the swamp - TS's and hurricanes - offer recurring opportunities to landscape - in case you don't get it right the first time.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-09-2005, 08:18 AM   #12
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Re: DIY landscaping

Hi Wab:

I love gardening...first started out as a toddler picking up twigs in the yard. Here is my approach developed over the years-

First off, I believe everybody has green thumbs. But not everybody follows directions. Follow directions and the green thumb will garden.
We're DIY'ers. And have about 1 acre of our propery landscaped. I find that's the upper limit of what we can DIY, in addition to working, remodeling other properties, etc.

Do you think you have good design sense? Good color sense? Alot of it is just awareness, growing up with it, recognizing it, or innundating your senses so that you recognize it when you see it. I would consider giving yourself a couple of weeks to dive into gardening books, gardening magazines, horticulture, etc.
Find these at library/Barnes and Nobles/Home Depot/Lowes:

books on horticulture, gardening design, picture travel and garden walk travel guides for England/ Italy/ Japan/ China.
magazines like Fine Gardening, Horticulture, Town and Country, Town and Country Travel, House and Garden, British House and Garden. go through all old copies at the library.
Books on Royal Gardens in England or National Trust Gardens
I like some of Penelope Hobhouse's ideas, and she has quite a few good books.
Look at the pictures of Carolyn Rhoeme's (sp?) lush coffeebook table tomes. She has beautiful gardens.
I guess Martha Stewart also deserves mention. You could even look at brochures or websites for luxury resorts and hotels; those places will usually spend tons on maintaining beautiful gardens. This would also give you more ideas on what you like, what you would want to be able to enjoy everyday.

look at pictures of mature gardens, what you would want your garden to look like in 10 years. I personally would avoid the lower end market books and magazines, because I thinks the "bones" of those gardens are very flimsy and anemic.

This is all to get ideas. Do you like free flowing English style? Or formal? If the latter, check out Edith Wharton's book on Italian gardens. The worst thing, next to a neglected landscape, is to see one with no proportion: row of pansies along a large brick house, say.

Once you get some ideas of styles that you like, how you like a garden structured, I would spend a day tracking the pattern of sun across your property. What areas are sunny or shady and when. That will determine what plants will thrive where.

Then going back to those ideas books, what kind of trees, bushes, plants, flowers did you like?
For more ideas on this, check out catalogs and calendar pictures too. I like white flower farm, andre viette's nursery. Smith hawkin has some nice ideas.
Then I would ask around and find out which is the absolute best nursery in your area. Then talk with an experienced (at the best nursery all will usually be) gardener there who can tell you about which plants to well in your area. usually everything they'll sell will grow well. Any good nursery will offer a guarentee on their plants, though I've haven't yet ever had a plant to complain about.
If you do your own planting...I like a mix of humus, compost, soil, perlite.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-09-2005, 01:48 PM   #13
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Re: DIY landscaping

The main thing I want to chime in with is a suggestion to learn all that you can about the plants that grow in your area naturally. You'll get better results with less work and expense if your steer clear of exotics that don't belong.

I just went to a garden tour here in Austin and the home with the largest garden was stocked with nothing but natives. This couple must have had at least one of just about anything that grew in this part of Texas. They had a printed list of species and it included their water bill for the entire house. It was next to nothing because they almost NEVER water the garden, except in cases of extreme drought. They don't need to, because the plants are used to the environment there. Meanwhile neighbors are probably watering their lawns multiple times a week.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-11-2005, 06:23 AM   #14
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Re: DIY landscaping

Mornin' Wab!

Being a die hard DIY'er I would definately do all you described above myself. Contracters these days are so busy making big bucks with new construction that all I could get to come to my house are incompetent rookies or thieves.

ONE STEP AT A TIME. Your project list is huge and I would spend several months getting it done at a comfortable pace. I would start organizing my thoughts with a CAD program like Floor Plan or similar to help me picture the end point.

Other thoughts - Plan your deck utilize standard lumber lengths to minimize waste. I'm returning several dead azaleas to HD today. Most plants even trees are guaranteed for 1 year. The deer ate them. I saved the receipts and tags off the limbs.

Plan and enjoy.

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-11-2005, 08:56 PM   #15
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Re: DIY landscaping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
We rented a bobcat front end loader to dig out and dump gravel in for our retaining wall.
You mean Bobcats & power augers have practical applications? Doesn't that take all the fun out of them?!?

Wab, you should meet my FIL. He thinks nothing of populating an entire acre from a single plug of zoysia that he digs out of the highway median and waters by hand. You just have to be patient and give it time to grow so that you can keep splitting the root bundle... It's the Borg gardening method. All will be assimilated and resistance is futile.

He's also a big proponent of "highway landscaping". If you see it thriving on the interstate medians without care or feeding then it'll probably do well in your yard.

90% of your results will derive from good advance planning. (Or you could wing it and enjoy a multi-decade work in progress.) Almost every local university has an agricultural extension with website advice on customizing your plans for your local area/climate. And many communities have xeriscape gardens to show you how to eliminate your water bill. Our local one gives away trees on Arbor Day, complete with planting & care assistance. Home Depot (despite the bad experiences others have had) gives classes on installing PVC fences or building decks. Their staff can teach you a lot in an hour.

If you're really a hardcore DIY'er then you could pay a landscaper up front for the plans. But tell them you're not in a hurry for results. One issue that landscapers don't discuss with customers is how long it'll take to get "the look". If you're willing to wait 5-10 years for full growth then you'll have a landscape that looks pretty bare for the first few years. Many landscapers opt for quick-growing plants that make the customers happy when the job is finished, but they're a curse when it comes to maintenance.

DIY plans for decks & recreation structures are all over the Internet. And a wonderful reference is provided by Family Handiman magazine... search their articles online through your library's database and then borrow those specific issues for the plans & parts lists. Heck, we subscribe just to read the "Goofs" section. Not that I've ever contributed to that...

I'm intrigued by Trex's synthetic decking materials. I'm not sure that I'd ever again build a deck with real wood. But I haven't built a deck this decade and there may be better methods & products.

If you're dealing with a bare plot of land and not xeriscaping then I'd take a long, hard look at gray-water irrigation systems. They basically use sink water (no sewage) with a filter and an underground distribution system to water your grass from below the surface. They may be more flexible now but when I first discovered them (San Diego, late '90s) they were only intended to be installed during new construction. If you decide to go with conventional sprinklers then I'd look at a Ditch Witch or a mechanical system that pulls flexible piping directly through the ground. Or, considering the size of the project, you may want to pay a landscaper to install the sprinklers & plumbing. If I had a chance to re-do our yard I'd bury all the sprinkler piping at least 18" deep with the expensive gear-driven sprinkler heads.

Our sideyard came largely landscaped but we've spent a lot of time killing the perimeter grass, mulching around the shrubbery, and putting in artificial borders. The lawn is now a kidney shape (no corners or angles) that can be mowed in about 10 minutes and trimmed in two. The mulch has nearly eliminated our weeding. Having spent five years with the shrubbery, I'd happily eliminate all the palm trees that make seeds. I also wouldn't plant bougainvillea anywhere that it'd get water because then I'd have to prune it.

Our backyard is on a steep slope and it's a weedwhacker's nightmare. If you have a sloped lot and don't want to run a mower up & down it then I'd use erosion-resistant ground cover.

I love mango, pineapple, papaya, tangerine, macadamia, lychee, starfruit, & guava. But I hate having to take care of the trees/plants (and the rodents). Decide who's going to do the maintenance before you plant the fruit.

Are you lighting the outdoors? I wouldn't waste my time stringing 12V systems when you can buy cheap PV/LED landscape lights. Ours charge during the day and softly light the sidewalk & perimeter as late as 5 AM. Zero maintenance, move them anytime/anywhere, and no more accidentally cutting the wiring.

Do you need outdoor storage for your Bobcat or other yard equipment? You'll have to consider portable structures vs pouring a foundation & building your own. Family Handiman again.

You may want to set aside a large chunk of the yard for a garden. Our tomatoes are just fruiting and we're starting peppers & cucumbers. I used to pooh-pooh gardens because I didn't want to can veggies, but freezing may work just as well. With tomatoes over $1/pound this project is paying for itself pretty quickly.

If you enjoy TV, try to catch an episode of HGTV's "Ground Breakers". They use Bobcats in ways that the rest of us can only fantasize about...
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-12-2005, 05:26 AM   #16
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Re: DIY landscaping

Wab,

Do the work yourself but hire somebody to read Nords' posts.

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-12-2005, 11:24 AM   #17
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Re: DIY landscaping

Hey, I resisted the urge to break that down into 45 smaller posts...
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-13-2005, 07:50 PM   #18
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Re: DIY landscaping

I know...continuing to feed the disease, I spent jail time today breaking rocks with a heavy sledge hammer because they were too large to move with the lawn tractor in one piece. Now there is a hole big enough that it needs a tree planted to fill it. Way too much fun.

Puttin' the spurs to the Wheel Horse...giddyup!

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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-14-2005, 01:36 PM   #19
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Re: DIY landscaping

I had a good idea with regards to the big rocks. I augered a larger hole right next to it and pushed it in, then buried it.
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Re: DIY landscaping
Old 05-17-2005, 06:22 AM   #20
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Re: DIY landscaping

Quote:
Originally Posted by th
I had a good idea with regards to the big rocks. I augered a larger hole right next to it and pushed it in, then buried it.
That reminds me... Several years ago I got a sweet deal on 50 eastern white pines averaging 2-3' tall. It was late summer and hot as blazes when a bunch of Mexicans pulled up on a flatbed delivering the 50 trees. I had marked the parched, hardpan where I wanted the trees planted. "Wheres the auger?" I asked the driver. He shot me a quizzical look then brightened and said, "Oh, thats Javier!"


Epilog. Not one tree died. All now over 25' and offering plenty of shade. Good job guys!
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