DS - ‘Cool Hand’ the enigma?

[rayinpenn]

DS (Cool Hand) is home from college having finished his sophomore year and just turning 20. While his first 3 semesters were not disastrous (3.0 GPA) I explained to him in a competitive world you really need exemplary grades. Ive also come to realize its his life not mine- all i can do is provide guidance. There’s no doubt at 64 there’s a 44 year generation gap between he and I. Hence I’m not sure how much of what i say sticks. I had almost given up and thought well at least looks like he will graduate. Well this semester 5 As and a C+ in a 2 credit course.

When I questioned him about the improvement he said “Now I know how much work I need to put in.” There was also talk about avoiding certain people prone to partying.

I choose to take the improvement as another sign of growing maturity. Still it all leaves me a bit puzzled.

Major: Computer Science
Minor: Mathematics

I try to keep these heart to heart talks about grades to a minimum.

 

[dirtbiker]

That's great! What is his major? Depending upon what his major is and if he wants to pursue graduate education, it may not make a bit of difference in his future work career whether he graduated with a 2.0 or a 4.0. Obviously I wouldn't tell him this though!

I barely graduated high school. Graduated #189 out of 191 students. I got a conditional acceptance into a local state university. Once there I did well, and nobody ever asked me about my high school grades again. Ever. I graduated college Magna Cum Laude with around a 3.8 GPA. I joined the honor society (solely for a line on my CV). That was great. It helped me get into medical school. Once getting into med school, nobody ever cared how I did in college. At all. I did good in med school. Graduated middle of the pack. When applying to residency, all anyone ever cared about were my board scores and med school grades. Nobody cared how I did in college. After finishing residency, nobody cared how I did in med school or how good my board scores were. They were concerned only about my work (residency) evaluations.

Obviously he should do well and learn as much as he can, but sometimes there is too much angst about how good, not great, grades will negatively impact someone IMO.

EDIT: I see his major and minor. I missed that when I first read it.

 

[kcowan]

dirtbiker
I has a classmate and friend who just did what was needed to pass at each level. It was amazing how he just had a sense for how much to step up his effort to make it past the post.

When he got his final job, this attitude meant that he never got fired but also never got promoted. As long as you apply the strategy appropriately, it seems to be a great approach.

 

[Big_Hitter]

it will be much easier to get a job if he has a 3.5 or higher overall gpa

 

[rayinpenn]

it will be much easier to get a job if he has a 3.5 or higher overall gpa

Of that we can be sure...

 

[Teacher Terry]

When I went to graduate school the lowest GPA for entrance was 3.0.

 

[pacergal]

ray--your DS seems to be doing well! He is recognizing what he needs to do to get what he wants/desires. Computer science and Math are heavy hitters, at least in my opinion.

New theories say the adolescent brain is not fully mature until mid 20's, especially for males. He is getting there!

 

[dirtbiker]

dirtbiker
I has a classmate and friend who just did what was needed to pass at each level. It was amazing how he just had a sense for how much to step up his effort to make it past the post.

When he got his final job, this attitude meant that he never got fired but also never got promoted. As long as you apply the strategy appropriately, it seems to be a great approach.

I'm definitely not suggesting he do the bare minimum that is needed to pass. I think it's great his grades have improved. And when my kids get to college, I will have high academic expectations of them. I was just pointing out that not having high grades in college does not necessarily make someone noncompetitive in the workforce. It may be harder for them to get their first job out of college, but from then on out, not many employers care about grades in undergrad.

 

[sengsational]

My approach was only intervene if they were heading towards the ditch. So if it were me, I'd just be supportive and proud.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I barely graduated high school. Graduated #189 out of 191 students. I got a conditional acceptance into a local state university. Once there I did well, and nobody ever asked me about my high school grades again. Ever. I graduated college Magna Cum Laude with around a 3.8 GPA. I joined the honor society (solely for a line on my CV). That was great. It helped me get into medical school. Once getting into med school, nobody ever cared how I did in college. At all. I did good in med school. Graduated middle of the pack. When applying to residency, all anyone ever cared about were my board scores and med school grades. Nobody cared how I did in college. After finishing residency, nobody cared how I did in med school or how good my board scores were. They were concerned only about my work (residency) evaluations.

Obviously he should do well and learn as much as he can, but sometimes there is too much angst about how good, not great, grades will negatively impact someone IMO.

Interesting post!

 

[Bamaman]

Computer Science and a minor in math are tough curriculums, and like engineering the grades are not as high on average as some other majors.

Many students that used to go into electrical engineering and other such majors are now going into Computer Science because that's the way their brains are wired. This generation has grown up around computers, and it's a way to make a living.

My cousin was a doctorate level Computer Science Scientist at NASA. In college he'd make an A in the 5 day a week Calculus and flunk everything else. He was totally monomaniacal--the best there was at doing one thing only. That's why he was a great at interfacing numerous computers into acting as one.

I just hope your son is a well rounded person socially. Often the best thing about college is what you learn outside of the classroom.

 

[rayinpenn]

I just hope your son is a well rounded person socially. Often the best thing about college is what you learn outside of the classroom.

“Cool Hand” seems comfortable in his own skin. He tells me he gets nervous around the ladies .. Thats a good thing i think.

 

[Dtail]

“Cool Hand” seems comfortable in his own skin. He tells me he gets nervous around the ladies .. Thats a good thing i think.

It is a good thing.

 

[Clone]

The significance of grades is that it may open doors or get a resume pass a filter. As others have said, once you have the job, nobody cares. But it could make the difference in whether you get called for an interview or not.

The concept of identifying the impact of your social circle is huge. You can surround yourself with studious folks and be motivated to excel, or you can surround yourself with slackers and motivate yourself to just get by. It sounds like he has grown significantly this past year! I may have had brains, but I don't think I gained much for intelligence until I was around 30.

 

[DFDubb]

No offense, but a 3.0 after the first 3 easiest semesters of school is pretty disastrous. It's SO hard to bring your grades up, he basically needs to make straight A's from here on out which is unlikely once in the upper level classes. Under a 3.5 is to the point where he will have to leave his GPA off of his resume. Grad school could soon be out the window if that is something that might have been of interest.

"Cool Hand" could find himself working for a crappy company soon.

 

[JDARNELL]

I always enjoy the Cool Hand Updates. My DS just finished his Jr year double major (not by Choice) and a student athlete which is a full-time job in itself. Best grades ever this semester. I did get into his tail in February so hard that he actually called DW to try and do damage control. It seems he has finally 'got it' In 3 weeks he will report to DC for a paid internship with the govt. I am sure though there is more hand ringing ahead.

 

[dirtbiker]

No offense, but a 3.0 after the first 3 easiest semesters of school is pretty disastrous. It's SO hard to bring your grades up, he basically needs to make straight A's from here on out which is unlikely once in the upper level classes. Under a 3.5 is to the point where he will have to leave his GPA off of his resume. Grad school could soon be out the window if that is something that might have been of interest.

"Cool Hand" could find himself working for a crappy company soon.

This is pretty alarmist. Most grad school programs require at least a 3.0 to apply and prefer a 3.5, but it is not mandatory. Particularly if the resume is padded in other areas. Average GPA in colleges now is about a 3.0 (and often lower in the tougher majors). If he's average (and going up), that's far from disastrous.

 

[Bir48die]

My approach was only intervene if they were heading towards the ditch. So if it were me, I'd just be supportive and proud.

I'm in total agreement with this approach. I get that the world is competitive. I'm not even going to explain my ups and downs of college but my epiphany came much later when I approached 30. You can tell him the ways of the world but you also must realize that this generation is more about balance than any prior generation.

More to say on this but that he's completed two years and not been on "double secret probation" has to be comforting.

 

[big-papa]

While I didn't graduate in the top 10 of my high school class of about 300, I was in the top 15 and nobody cared. When I started college, I did OK, but high school was pretty easy and didn't really teach me the studying and learning work-ethic I needed for college. After one semester, I transferred from the small, home-town university to the big state university, I struggled including getting a "C" in a 5-hour credit course which is tough to make up for later on. But like the OP's Cool Hand, after a couple of semesters I "got it". Dean's list every time after that, as well as scholarships. For me, it wasn't about distractions - I plain just didn't know what I was doing and had to figure it out on my own since nobody else in my family had gone to college. So stories like the OP's definitely strike a chord with me!


Now I have a daughter whose high school grades are all over the place and who is graduating in a couple of weeks and starts college in the fall. Hope she "gets it" faster than I did!

Also, I totally agree with the poster that things like grades are only important for the next step. Two steps from that, nobody cares.

 

[GrayHare]

Back in my day, no potential employer asked to see my transcript, or what my GPA was. For grad school, yes, GPA is important. Is it now important for jobs too?

 

[DFDubb]

This is pretty alarmist. Most grad school programs require at least a 3.0 to apply and prefer a 3.5, but it is not mandatory. Particularly if the resume is padded in other areas. Average GPA in colleges now is about a 3.0 (and often lower in the tougher majors). If he's average (and going up), that's far from disastrous.

Your assumption is that he's going up. I'd argue that he started with a 4.0 and has gone down 25% during the easiest part of his degree. Trying to get back up to a 3.5 or better is going to be a long hard slog. Can it be done, sure, but it's not likely.

Obviously GPA isn't everything, but what a missed opportunity to not take advantage of the easy A's being offered in your history, English, nonsense classes.

I graduated with a 3.8'ish and my spouse with a 2.7. Spouse makes 10x what I do now, literally, but it wasn't easy to land that first gig. Company they work for now never would've even looked at the resume (require a 3.5 minimum for graduating engineers). GPA still matters trying to land that first gig, especially right now when everyone has a bachelors at a minimum.

 

[38Chevy454]

Ray, Cool Hand is doing fine. Enjoy your time with him this summer. I assume he has a job lined up to save some money for school next fall?


Here is a first hand story (mine) about grades in college. Engineering major that went right to a top level state college (Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo) that was very hard to get into as entering freshman in Engineering. I started out getting mix of A's, B's and C's in first semester. I did well in the technical courses, but hated the gen ed crap. I learned of the pass/fail type grading and took the rest of my gen ed as pass/fail where I only had to get a C or better. Got the credit, but no effect on GPA. Never got less than a C, so never had to repeat anything. Concentrated my efforts on the major and support classes where had to get the grades. Was also a working student that did about 20-25 hours/week while in school. Between the pass/fail and also just learning better how to study, I continually raised my GPA each quarter through first 2 years. By third year I was making Dean's list each quarter. Ended up with 3.28 overall GPA and 3.89 major GPA.


So it is possible to raise your GPA as the classes get harder and higher level. I also agree that while GPA may help open doors for that first job, after that it is what work have you done and just able to verify you graduated with the degree. No real GPA issues after that first job.


Give Cool Hand a complement for the success he has had. He'll do fine with the rest of school and into his working career.

 

[big-papa]

Back in my day, no potential employer asked to see my transcript, or what my GPA was. For grad school, yes, GPA is important. Is it now important for jobs too?

When I graduated in the mid 1980's it was important. A number of employers wanted to see the GPA before they would even interview with candidates. And as a current hiring manager, I know that the pre-screens our recruiting department uses for new-grads does include a screen on GPA.

 

[SecondCor521]

GPA requirements vary by company.

My BS was in CS with a minor in Math. I worked for 23 years for five different tech companies - four were Fortune 500 and one was a small startup. In my last five years I was a first level manager; I sat on probably dozens of interviewing teams as both a manager and before that as a lead engineer.

In those five companies, only one, to my knowledge, had an undergrad GPA requirement. They required a 3.75 or you didn't even get a phone screen. That was among the least pleasant and productive places to work IMO, and I think the two items were related.

Of the remaining four, I know for certain that two did not have GPA screens. And they are very good companies - names which, if I mentioned them, you would recognize and very likely think of as good companies to work for.

When reviewing resumes, I looked at the work experience, degree type, school reputation, classes taken (if provided) and typo/grammar errors to decide whether to phone screen. Beyond that point, it was how they did in the phone screen that determined whether they got an interview. How they did on the interview (teamwork and knowing answers to basic technical questions were the main requirements) determined job offers. Starting salary was based on current salary, years of experience, and job interview performance. Salary after that was based on job performance.

If Cool Hand wants to go to grad school, GPA may matter more. But in that case, I think a good GRE score and references will matter just as much, and if GPA in major is above a 3.25 or so I wouldn't worry about it.

...

My oldest son got a 4 year full ride scholarship to the state flagship university. Within one semester, he was on academic probation. After two semesters, he had lost his scholarship. He dropped out after three semesters, a decision I fully supported: he wasn't happy and wasn't doing well. In retrospect he was not mature enough for college and the school he chose was not a good choice.

He came home and moped for a while, then rested and recuperated for a while, then worked a few years. He decided on his own to go back. He chose a different school and different living environment and different major. He had to do a semester or two as a non-degree seeking student due to his low college GPA from the first school. He is now easily getting straight A's and on track to graduate at the end of next year. Also very importantly, he has a positive attitude and appears to be enjoying his school and his life.

They'll figure out their path. It may take some twists and turns we didn't expect, and it may take longer than we hope for. But I think we fret too much. There are very few decisions in life that are so bad that they are truly non-recoverable. And bad decisions that result in medium failures often generate a lot more wisdom and maturity and growth than buzzing along on a nominal path.

 

[Masquernom]

I worked for a large chemical company. I think we only interviewed grads with a 3.5 GPA or higher. I have my doubts about the wisdom of that. Of course, I have my doubts about the wisdom of a lot of things that company did.