Get a Life!

[SteveR]

But that's just nutz..they don't print enough money to pay me to do that!  Rather be poor but have a life.

I was also on salary as was my late wife. We both worked these hours so somehow that made it more tolerable.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get what you want. We were willing to work the hours to get the paychecks that allowed us to ER. It was not pretty but it was what we felt we needed to do to get the $$ to invest so we could be FI and ER.

Could we have done it on less? Yes but the life-style we were looking for required more $$ than would have been possible otherwise. We also had the Golden Handcuffs to deal with and it was too much to walk away from since it was a significant part of our FI plan. Why leave money on the table if you are only a couple of years away from it? I prefer to see it as using the system to get what I wanted.

Within days of reaching age 50 I advised them I would be taking ER in two weeks and then Elvis left the building. My new company was kind enough to move our 20 tons of stuff half-way across the country, pay all my closing costs for two houses, give me a nice moving bonus with stock options, and a better medical plan. The only bad thing was a 20% pay cut but the cost of living is 75% lower here than there, so I did not really come out too bad on the deal. I have full retirement benefits from my old company whenever I want to turn them on including medical and dental insurance; a small pension and I rolled my 401(k) into an IRA where I can direct it.

Yes, I paid a high price in my early years....a divorce and lost face time with my kids. But that was my wake up call and my attitude towards work changed as a result and all my efforts were focused on FI. It takes money to be FI and dumpster diving, KMart Blue Light Specials and driving junkers was not my idea of FI. Creature comforts, a decent car, some "toys" and a low restriction life-style were what we were shooting for.

Nobody knows more than I do about lost time on ones life. My late wife worked 34 years for the same company. She ER's and died 7 months later at the age of 57. Sometimes you pay more for what you get than you intended. Nobody said life was fair. Sometimes the best we can do is dependent on the path we see to get us there.

We each have our own way of getting to FIRE. There is no right of wrong; there is only what works in each of our own unique lives.

 

[Nords]

It takes money to be FI and dumpster diving, KMart Blue Light Specials and driving junkers was not my idea of FI.

Our kid was out with her posse last Saturday night, leaving us parents free for a few hours of uninhibited hedonistic adult quality time. You must have been following us around!

 

[justin]

I was also on salary as was my late wife. We both worked these hours so somehow that made it more tolerable.

I've noticed since my wife started working 1 month ago that I don't mind working a little more at the office. I may break 44 hours this week (usually do 40-41). When my wife isn't eagerly awaiting my return from work, I don't feel as motivated to get home early. I guess I'm not used to coming home to an empty, lonely, quiet house (so peaceful and tranquil though).

 

[Texas Proud]

I decided that long hours were not worth it back when I was a tax accountant....

I would wash clothes at 3 AM... from Jan 15 until Apr 15 worked every day... put in 100 hour weeks... got paid squat...

 

[Texas Proud]

Another story... many years later....

We had a new young boss who kept trying to make us work late and on the weekends... well, one of the other workers wanted to take off the weekend since Monday was a holiday and he had family coming over... he normally would leave to pick up the kids since his wife was the major bread winner...

But, he know that the little weasel boss would try and make him come to work on the Monday.... so he arranged that his wife would pick up the kids... on Friday afternoon when the boss said they need to finish the contracts and that he would need to come in to work.. he said, OH, I planned on staying as late as necessary tonight to get it done... are you not staying Well, the boss had a hot date that night and did not want to stay... so he decided Monday was not necessary and Tuesday was OK..

It is because you allow them to get away with this behavior that they continue to do it.... REBEL...

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I decided that long hours were not worth it back when I was a tax accountant.... 

I would wash clothes at 3 AM...  from Jan 15 until Apr 15 worked every day...  put in 100 hour weeks...  got paid squat...

I worked in Accounting/Finance for decades, but only worked as
a tax accountant PT after I semiretired. I never saw the long hours, but I also "got paid squat". It was okay as I just
wanted a little "walking around money". No complaints,
but the work was BORING!

JG

 

[Texas Proud]

I worked in Accounting/Finance for decades, but only worked as
a tax accountant PT after I semiretired.  I never saw the long hours, but I also "got paid squat".  It was okay as I just
wanted a little  "walking around money".  No complaints,
but the work was BORING!

JG

It was interesting doing rich people, trust and estates.... We had one guy who had suggested quarterly tax payment of $5 million... very interesting tax return...

But we also had the average executive who had a big salary and a few partnerships etc... they thought they were tough tax returns, but like you said... it was boring work...

Maybe I will do that when I retire to have a bit of walking around money.... never know until you get there...

 

[wildcat]

So TP, with respect to your previous post, what did you decide to do when it was no longer worth it you/

 

[laurence]

My new position is in a group where 120 hour pay periods (60 hour weeks) is normal. The thing is, they pay us overtime over 80, then force you to go home after 120. If it really needs to get done, they will authorize more hours-paid-if you request it. This all is in the name of competitiveness, because we bid totally unrealistic software delivery dates, then somehow this brilliant team gets it done on time. The thing is, people love the work. We are doing this really important thing, something that matters. Even though I've only been in it 3 weeks, I've noticed the days just slip by. There is no clock watching involved. I took the position because of the opportunities it opens up in my career, and the opportunities it provides my family. There are ways to work that kind of overtime and still have a life. My MO is to get up early, put in the 11 hour day, take only a half hour for lunch (at my desk, usually while browsing here) and get home in time for a normal dinner and family life. I think the difference is nobody would think of coming in on a weekend.

 

[haha]

'll quote you too, HaHa. 

If it looks like you aren't going to make partner (you will know) you may look at moving to another firm. Also, a number of lawyers who don't make partner end up as in house counsel, often for clients they represented. 

Thanks Martha, on both counts.

Ha

 

[sgeeeee]

I'm convinced that most of the "efficiency" gains for corporations during the 90's were gained on the back of the workforce. Expectations for weekly work hours went from a reasonable 45 or so to the unreasonable 70 to 80.

Interestingly, back in the 80's, I used to work continuously. When it wasn't required of me, I was so excited about the work that I devoted far more than 80 hours per week. Since I could meet the company expectations working blindfolded about 40 hours per week, the rest of the time was spent working to develop my own ideas that I could offer and promote to the company. I was completely happy devoting that much energy to work. (Okay, I admit I am a conformed workaholic. But it doesn't change the fact that I was happy with this arrangement and that the company benefited significantly from it.)

But what became unbearable was when they wanted to control and focus my efforts -- not just for 40 hours per week -- but for 60, 70 or 80.

I used to be an engineer, but I'm better now. I learned to love a lot of other things besides work. It wasn't easy. But faced with working long hours on poorly managed nonsense, or finding other interests, I found other interests. The company lost out.

 

[Nords]

I used to be an engineer, but I'm better now.

I like that. A recovering engineer?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

  The company lost out.   

Maybe.

JG

 

[Eagle43]

I'm convinced that most of the "efficiency" gains for corporations during the 90's were gained on the back of the workforce.  Expectations for weekly work hours went from a reasonable 45 or so to the unreasonable 70 to 80. 

...
But what became unbearable was when they wanted to control and focus my efforts -- not just for 40 hours per week -- but for 60, 70 or 80. 

Correct.  And they're still doing it.  Here's the way to stop it.  Pay the salaried workers by the hour.  You work 80 hours, you get paid 40 and 40 overtime.  All of a sudden, that report might wait until next Monday. And even if it could not wait, you'd be getting paid for all that extra work. 

 

[brewer12345]

My new position is in a group where 120 hour pay periods (60 hour weeks) is normal.  The thing is, they pay us overtime over 80, then force you to go home after 120.  If it really needs to get done, they will authorize more hours-paid-if you request it.  This all is in the name of competitiveness, because we bid totally unrealistic software delivery dates, then somehow this brilliant team gets it done on time.  The thing is, people love the work.  We are doing this really important thing, something that matters.  Even though I've only been in it 3 weeks, I've noticed the days just slip by.  There is no clock watching involved.  I took the position because of the opportunities it opens up in my career, and the opportunities it provides my family.  There are ways to work that kind of overtime and still have a life.   My MO is to get up early, put in the 11 hour day, take only a half hour for lunch (at my desk, usually while browsing here) and get home in time for a normal dinner and family life.  I think the difference is nobody would think of coming in on a weekend.

Laurence, sounds like you have settled on the same MO as I have. Put in the long weekdays, but keep the weekend as more-or less sacrosanct. It also helps that I live ~70 miles from the office, so its not like I could drop by for a couple of hours.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Laurence, sounds like you have settled on the same MO as I have.  Put in the long weekdays, but keep the weekend as more-or less sacrosanct.  It also helps that I live ~70 miles from the office, so its not like I could drop by for a couple of hours.

I solved that "problem" by dragging the work home with me. It was mostly
for "show" as I never got much real work done at home, so I finally quit that.

For many years, if there was nothing in particular going on, my first
inclination was to head for the office. I was not trying to escape anything
or anyone. It was done to expand my "production" and the number
of hours I could cram in. This paid off big time when I worked for others.
My employers loved it.

JG

 

[wildcat]

It also helps that I live ~70 miles from the office, so its not like I could drop by for a couple of hours.

Brew, how does that commute feel? I imagine it allows you to escape from the city and afford a house but do you think it was worth it -- adding the commute hours to your long work week. I may be faced with a similar situation and I don't know if I could hack it.

 

[LEX]

There are a lot of very talented and experienced folks on this board who, IMHO, would be worth plenty if they were inclined, or induced, by either better pay or perks, to share their talent on a balanced schedlue. 

I resemble SG, being trained as an engineer and later became a lawyer.  I had a unique path that focused entirely in international mineral exloration and mining, so I worked with lots of risky projects and they payed off, hence I FIRED myself.  Copper is about $2.00 /lb COMEX  and my former ventures made huge profits at .75/lb...so there is someone out there that needs a mining engineer to solve million dollar problems and can pay top wages.  Same for a petroleum engineer I have known for decades.  But like so many on this board, I am taking my pay in free time and personal travel with those who matter most.  There is a point where money has no real "displacement value" when compared to personal freedom.

I believe we all earned the right to make these choices and it will take some real creative employment offers to pull many of us off the FIRE lifestyle.  8)

 

[brewer12345]

Brew, how does that commute feel?  I imagine it allows you to escape from the city and afford a house but do you think it was worth it -- adding the commute hours to your long work week.  I may be faced with a similar situation and I don't know if I could hack it.

Here is my schedule on most weeks:

M-Th: Up at 5AM, out the door by 5:45. In the office by 7 to 7:30 (traffic etc. permitting). Out by ^PM or a tad later. Home by 7:30, give or take.
F: Same deal, but usually out of the office by 4PM, since the Friday commute can get really fugly. Usually 2 hours, longer in the summer (I live towards the NJ shore area).
Weekends: check e-mail once or twice, but that's about it. Once in a blue moon there will be a fure drill to deal with, but the company isn't set up for telecommuting, so its hard to really get anything done.

Hours don't vary that much unless the market in what we trade turns to crap. Then a lot of decisions have to be made in a short time. We ha a mini crack-up in May, but it didn't amount to more than a few extra hours a week.

Is it worth it? Let you know at bonus time. I think I can live with this for 3 to 5 years, and then we will see. I am still home in time to spend a couple hours with my daughter and wife, and I still get my weekends. Having said that, DW and I have agreed to re-evaluate every year after bonus time whether we want to sign on for another year.