Condo common area cleaning dilemma

[Teacher Terry]

Were the owners who sued part of the HOA? Since we only have four units, all owners are part of the HOA. Our CC&Rs do have a clause that owners cannot be compensated by the HOA, so the owners who do the cleaning for the other two owners are paid by them personally.

Yes all owners are part of the hoa. So in essence they as one of 150 owners were suing themselves.

 

[Murph]

Wondering how folks who have condos suggest resolving a cleaning dilemma. I own a condo in a four unit building. The original owners (i.e. the HOA) decided years ago that owners would take turns by month for weekly cleaning of the common area. Takes about and hour and isn't too onerous. Two years ago one unit changed hands, and the new owner has not cleaned when it's their months. We initially gave them the benefit of the doubt and several gentle reminders, but they don't seem to care. The HOA doesn't have a policy in place to address this, as this is the first time in 30 years that it's happened. We are considering levying fines for non-compliance, but that doesn't get the cleaning done. We've thought of taking it a step further and hiring a cleaning company after x times of non-compliance and charging the owner as an additional fee, but that would be a lot more complicated to administer and coordinate.

So to start, what would be a reasonable fee to charge for each weekly instance of not cleaning? FWIW, we're in an urban, high COLA area. If we were to hire an outside company they'd charge $130 each time. And what are some ideas for how to get the cleaning done if owner opts to just rack up fines? Thanks in advance for your hive mind feedback.

I am the president of our condo board. We have a booklet of policies. If something like this were to happen here, we would hire the cleaning crew (after three warnings) and charge the full amount to the non-compliant owner. Do that once or twice and it will never be needed again.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I am the president of our condo board. We have a booklet of policies. If something like this were to happen here, we would hire the cleaning crew (after three warnings) and charge the full amount to the non-compliant owner. Do that once or twice and it will never be needed again.

Sorry but you can only do that if it is in the bylaws. Your "booklet of policies" is not worth the paper it is written on. Unless of course you want to be paying the damages yourself! Your D&O policy only protects you if you are acting in compliance with your bylaws. These often have to be recorded with the state and can only be changed by the members not the board.

I am on the board of our road repair association(RRA), which for all practical purposes is a HOA. One of our properties was foreclosed by a foreign bank last year that refused to pay dues or correct violations, or for that matter, even respond to communications. Our attorney advised us to do nothing because the RRA and the individual board members could be held responsible with their foreclosure and disposure process because a lien would diminish the value of the property and the directors would be responsible for judicial interference which is a tort not covered by insurance.

We backed down. It's easy to be aggressive with individuals but my lesson from this is that HOA boards are ultimately fangless.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yes all owners are part of the hoa. So in essence they as one of 150 owners were suing themselves.

That's really irrelevant because in any damages calculation the share from the plaintiff would be considered... damages of $150000, 150 members, 149 responsible members, award to plaintiff of $150,000/149 with prohibition on respondent from assessing plaintiff, likely with automatic criminal penalties on board members for contempt of court if they try.

 

[Teacher Terry]

That's really irrelevant because in any damages calculation the share from the plaintiff would be considered... damages of $150000, 150 members, 149 responsible members, award to plaintiff of $150,000/149 with prohibition on respondent from assessing plaintiff, likely with automatic criminal penalties on board members for contempt of court if they try.

Our insurance company settled after the board approved it and they paid not us. It was a frivolous lawsuit but unfortunately a million dollars was at stake and juries are unpredictable hence the insurance company settling.

 

[Murph]

Sorry but you can only do that if it is in the bylaws. Your "booklet of policies" is not worth the paper it is written on. Unless of course you want to be paying the damages yourself! Your D&O policy only protects you if you are acting in compliance with your bylaws. These often have to be recorded with the state and can only be changed by the members not the board.

I am on the board of our road repair association(RRA), which for all practical purposes is a HOA. One of our properties was foreclosed by a foreign bank last year that refused to pay dues or correct violations, or for that matter, even respond to communications. Our attorney advised us to do nothing because the RRA and the individual board members could be held responsible with their foreclosure and disposure process because a lien would diminish the value of the property and the directors would be responsible for judicial interference which is a tort not covered by insurance.

We backed down. It's easy to be aggressive with individuals but my lesson from this is that HOA boards are ultimately fangless.

The policy booklet is referenced in the bylaws, and are binding.

 

[ychuck46]

My wife and I said years ago that we would never get ourselves involved in any HOA or condo association type of situation, both for the (sometimes) onerous HOA fees and for exactly the kinds of situations noted here by the OP. At 70 and 71 years of age we are still happily ensconced in our single family home and not planning any change.

 

[Koolau]

HOAs are a mixed bag of good and bad. They are only as good as the by-laws and tenant rules AND the resident manager. Without an "official" arbiter of such things as "rule breaking" it is very difficult to effect change.

We have very rigid rules at our Condo, but lots of grace is given to those who attempt to comply. Our resident manager is very good and "knows" who's been naughty and who's been nice.

The only real "bad" stuff at our condo is a few busy-bodies who occasionally walk around and "look" for infractions (like screens with too much accumulation of volcanic dust from the hills behind us or painting issues on metal doors, etc. ) IOW, it usually w*rks very well. When it doesn't the resident manager can usually make it w*rk well again. YMMV

 

[Teacher Terry]

A condo building couldn’t function decently without a hoa as it would rapidly turn into a slum. You can enforce rules without turning into a dictator.

 

[Walt34]

My wife and I said years ago that we would never get ourselves involved in any HOA or condo association type of situation, both for the (sometimes) onerous HOA fees and for exactly the kinds of situations noted here by the OP.

I once thought as you do, but then we moved from an area with strictly enforced zoning to WV. So much depends on the area, the situation, the people involved, and other intangibles. Here in this part of WV, the county voters in their infinite wisdom have twice rejected zoning in the 20 years we've been here. That means without an HOA someone is free to put in a junkyard, strip joint or noisy bar, airport, drag strip or (insert your land use horror story here) right next door to your house. And I have in my travels seen most of those except for an airport. Flat land is hard to come by around here.

Since we don't have the resources to buy the surrounding fifty acres or so it would take to insulate ourselves from all possible irritants, I'll happily take the benign HOA we do have.

 

[Music Lover]

That means without an HOA someone is free to put in a junkyard, strip joint or noisy bar, airport, drag strip or (insert your land use horror story here) right next door to your house.

Don't municipal bylaws cover those situations already?

 

[Koolau]

A condo building couldn’t function decently without a hoa as it would rapidly turn into a slum. You can enforce rules without turning into a dictator.

Yeah, it can be a fine line. It really depends on the people involved. The busy bodies are the worst IMHO but YMMV.

 

[MC Rider]

I just see an HOA as another level of govt I don't want or need. We don't have a city govt here, the county, state, feds, etc are more than enough. I'll concede there are not that many people here to need a city govt. I like it like that.