Getting my daughter off the RayinPenn Dole...

[rayinpenn]

I've taken to going for walks at work to get away from my desk and to exercise replacement knees -if i sit too long the knees will let me know. My walking partner today, Coleeen, has had her hip replaced and is with me for the exercise also. Plus we are the two oldest people in my department. I estimate the average age at 31 or 32- Im 63 and shes close to that. My other walking partner is the 3rd oldest...

Today Colleen is upset, her 40 year old plus unemployed, ne'er-do-well brother, is full of excuses and too quick to stick out his hand. Apparently he has been living at home, freeloading off their very elderly, limited means, Mom for years. The particular incident that has Colleen worked up is: He doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together so Coleen gave him some money to repair his truck. He used the money for the dogs vet bill. He needs the truck to work. According to Colleen he feels no manual labor job is good enough. I listen patiently as I've heard this kind of story many times before. My counsel: "You cant live his life for him.. There are people that feel they are better than the work they are qualified for and they'd rather not work then "hustle." They are completely comfortable taking money from elderly parents. Colleen's frustrated, feels helpless, but after all it is still her brother.

A few weeks ago I told my gainfully employed Daughter (after she received her second paycheck) that I expected her to get her own Credit Card and pay for her own gas. She applied online and was immediately approved by Citibank - card to follow in a week or so. About 3 weeks later I am sitting having breakfast and see a credit card and some paperwork on the table. I ask the wife what is this credit card doing here? "It's your daughters". I am on to them- The Mrs is a softie and will allow the daughter to bleed me as long as possible. When I finally catch up with my daughter I make it clear no more gas on my card. She's got no student debt (Thanks mom and Dad), no rent, a 2 year old car that we bought for her and a nice salary. She is getting off the RayiPenn Dole! And when I tell her she says "you are mean". Yep thats me, Mean. I think she just doesn't like hearing it. Your off "the gravy train".

Yesterday I walked Dusty early and noticed the windows on my daughter car were frosted. I thought I hope she warms that car up and defrost those windows before she leaves at 6:45AM. I heard the Mrs talking to her about her Car's state inspection which was due. Well to make a long story short -she doesn't know it but a remote starter is getting installed as we speak.

Yeah, like I said the wife is a softie- Me I am hard as nails... hard as nails i tell you!

Care to share your "off the dole' experience -id love to hear it.

 

[Sunset]

I would have bought her an ice scraper. Cheaper, Good Exercise, Better for the environment, No ongoing cost (gas free).

 

[Carpediem]

Recently told DD1 that she'd need to sign up for healthcare coverage during her employer's upcoming open enrollment period since she'll be turning 26 in early 2018. The "yeah, I know" short response followed with a sour looking expression told me this millennial wasn't too keen on being pushed further off the payroll.

Later on, this same millennial was talking about her brother needing a new cell phone (which we still pay for the plan) and how she had advised him to just buy himself a new one and stay on the current plan (ours) instead of getting his own. "Why would you get your own plan when you can stay on your parents", was her comment. Her brother is 24 and has a full-time job. Ugh.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

It seems to be quite an epidemic of sorts as I have lost count of the number of people I know with adult children (even grandchildren in a few cases) who are still hopelessly, and shamelessly, dependent. What a blessing it was that I was told early and often that I would be on my own asap with most things. Got my first job, delivering groceries, at age eleven. Was paying a few bills with my own money shortly thereafter. It is unfathomable to me how young people today will ever learn to value independence, let alone practice it.

 

[candrew]

DW's sister has been married to a ne'er do well for 26 years. This guy has been mooching off SIL financially, emotionally and is too damn lazy to even pick up after himself. Yes, SIL has an enabling issue and has finally seen the light (just a little bit), sold their house, split the proceeds and the two are now legally separated though she's keeping him on her employer sponsored health insurance. SIL is now in her mid-50's, has been funding her workplace 401K and my first thought when I heard that the two would be separating is, UH-OH - her bum of a soon to be ex hubby will be entitled to half of what she has. Based on what we've heard back through the family grapevine, SIL has been telling her other siblings that her soon-to-be ex would "never" try and take her for halve-sies. Considering the fact that we only see that side of DW's family a few times each year makes it convenient for us to keep our distance.

 

[jollystomper]

One of our children had to go to prison before they realized DW and I were serious about not having him on our "payroll". It was probably the toughest thing DW and I ever had to do. But in her family there are too many examples of adults still being supported by their parents that DW wants to do anything to break the cycle. She has a brother in his 50's who has always either lived with their mother or in a place rented/owned by their mother, and almost all of his jobs were ones their mother found for him. He is just now realizing the bind he is in but getting him to be independent is like trying to get someone off of drugs.

 

[Aerides]

How old is she, and when is she due to move out? I was paying for my own gas as soon as I was working in high school, with a much older first car.... Granted parents paid the insurance, but it sounds like she's at least 20 out of college? Should have a plan to get her out on her own - more for her sake than your wallet.

 

[Texas Proud]

Sure.... you might not think he is off.... but DS is in his second year of college... he is responsible for all of his costs... he pays for all gas, car upkeep, rent etc. etc...

AND, I put down on what we are spending on him the costs that I pay such as health and car insurance... he and his mom are upset that the car insurance for him is going up since I bought a 'new' for me car... since insurance is on all cars for all drivers there is no way I can prevent the price being based in him.... I calculate what I would pay without his car and him on the policy and that is what he is charged... I told him he has the option of getting his own insurance....


Now, we are paying for his college and he does get money monthly from us, but there is a ceiling to what he gets and if he spends it too fast he is out of luck... and he knows I am serious on the limit... so far he is doing pretty good in his decisions, but still almost 4 years to go...

 

[bclover]

RayinPenn,

one which is my brother who actually got his life together but it's still going to be rough going since he didn't do that until late in life and messed up so much of us working adult years.

Let me start with the obvious. Being an enabler never works well. not sure why but it seems like it's a particular female trait, maybe it's in our nature to nurture.

anyhoo, my brother worked for a major motion picture industry and for some reason at 30 decided to try drugs. got hooked and then spent the next 15 years moochie off of anyone he could but especially our mom.

you know when he got his act together when our mom passed away and when my father a retired war vet and police Sargent bounced his backside to the curb, and by that time he had burnt all his bridges to family including me.

Now I don't really have an age limit to helping people. I know a lot of people here brag about how the nanosecond they turned 18 they were fully functioning adults and there is nothing wrong with that. I was not one of them, I needed help financially and emotionally many times well into my adults years and thank the good lord people found me worthy of help.

So my basic litmus test with my kids is, are you moving forward in a positive direction.
My oldest son was had learning disabilities, it would have been disastrous for him to try to work and go to college. so what was our priority? letting him get a good education that will enable him to be a functioning adult. so yep, we paid his car insurance and his phone bill while he was in school.

My youngest has an American express card that is on my account, it's helping him establish his own credit. whatever he charges, he pays for. he knows all it takes is one month mess up and I shut it down.

In my house we do % based contributions as opposed to a dollar amount. no matter what they earn, they have to give up 15% to the house (mom landlady) 15% to savings and then the rest they can spend as the see fit but if they blow it by tuesday and don't get paid until friday, they are broke.

 

[braumeister]

In my house we do % based contributions as opposed to a dollar amount. no matter what they earn, they have to give up 15% to the house (mom landlady) 15% to savings and then the rest they can spend as the see fit but if they blow it by tuesday and don't get paid until friday, they are broke.

Great system. Kudos to you!

 

[JDARNELL]

I have two kids. One is a sophomore in college and the other is a junior in HS. So here is our table to date.

College son is a college athlete who has practice 5 or 6 days a week. He lives in the dorms and is on the meal plan. 3.0 student and is making progress going forward. This last summer he came home to work. After 2 weeks of his version of "finding a job" for his school spending money I found him on manual labor with union electricians. He hated every minute of it. In addition he wrecked the car that he was gonna take back to school and I made him pay the $500 deductible. He decided that he was not gonna come home anymore summers and is going to be living off campus next summer paying to live while working for the school 40 hrs a week. After Christmas he will take our 200K miles car back to school cross country and will be responsible for the gas. Beginning summer he will start paying 1/2 his phone bill. Beginning summer of his junior year he will have half insurance and entire phone bill. Beginning of senior year he will have entire bills. He is pretty tight with his money.

Junior in HS is working at fast food place saving his money for college spending money. Its new to him and he is buying some little things but saving most. Of course I pay for his gas etc.

Happy to pay for their college as long as they are making progress towards graduating. Might even give them a little reprieve towards end of school we will see. As for moving home after school wife and I are downsizing so if they visit they will be on a blow up air mattress.

 

[bw5972]

It seems to be quite an epidemic of sorts as I have lost count of the number of people I know with adult children (even grandchildren in a few cases) who are still hopelessly, and shamelessly, dependent. What a blessing it was that I was told early and often that I would be on my own asap with most things. Got my first job, delivering groceries, at age eleven. Was paying a few bills with my own money shortly thereafter. It is unfathomable to me how young people today will ever learn to value independence, let alone practice it.

I am a firm believer of the quote by Abraham Lincoln:

"The worst thing you can do for those you love is the things they could and should do themselves."

 

[Curmudgeon]

I decided when my kids turned 18 they were on their own (one is now 19, one 17, so it only applies to one). The 19-year old is a college student, so I'm willing to help him with LOANS until he has graduated and truly able to support himself. But giving aid in the form of a loan forces him to think about every dollar he spends; every dollar he spends is one that he is going to need to pay back eventually. No one makes worse financial/spending decisions than the person who is spending someone else's money.
(Actually, so far he has borrowed nothing from me, because he doesn't want to be in debt and so he got merit scholarships to pay for tuition, and works part time to pay for his housing!)

 

[jazz4cash]

So as far as grown kids go we have 3 and only one is still living at home. We share family phone plan. I had THE TALK when they were about 14 so they had no expectation of ongoing support after undergrad (except room and board at home for grad school). They each had 20k in student loans. DD still at home has a so-so job, pays all her own bills, just bought a new car. She's had trouble getting credit cards, probably because it's easier for her to use ours and pay us back. I am trying to get up the nerve to charge her modest rent (which I would set aside and gift to her when she moves out ). She was supposed to start grad school but it got postponed. Being firm with dependents is tough but pays off in the long run. Adult siblings are another story! Also, parents can do everything right and sometimes things just don't work out.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

My (late) eldest brother was like this. He would have had a better life if DF and DM had given him some tough love early, IMO.

 

[rayinpenn]

Recently told DD1 that she'd need to sign up for healthcare coverage during her employer's upcoming open enrollment period ....

Same conversation at our house when she started her new job... I was told my insurance was better and cheaper.. i didn't relent - it wouldn't be cheaper if I had to pay it. The cord must be cut cleanly and completely.

 

[FIREmenow]

Mine was simple.

Dear son had such a massive chip on his shoulder rebelling against, and "besting" the old man, that it was everything he could do to get out of the house as fast as possible and PROVE he could do everything on his own.

He has done well.

Still not saving and planning for the future, but well done so far, nonetheless.

 

[Jeffman52]

So I have two kids. My daughter started college at the local community college and we paid for that 100%, well after bombing out the first semester, we took her off the parent scholarship and she had to get a job to pay for at least two semesters on her own to earn her scholarship back. She did that and went back to school. She was more focused. So then we had her buy a car (if ya want to call it that) and we paid for half and she paid for half. Another semester in, and she decided that she wanted to go to school somewhere else (where her BF was) and stay on campus. Well, you are an adult so feel free, however for the first couple of years all you get in money is what you would have paid if you stayed in community college and got your core out of the way.

She graduated and got a job and we gave her a set date to have her own car insurance and her own phone. Time to be an adult.

My son was fairly easy at first. He joined the Marines. Went to DLI and learned Pashtu and some other language. He got married, got out of the service, moved to Seattle. Thats where it got ugly. Marriage fell apart, his car was in no condition to drive across country, etc etc etc. We sent him a ticket to come home and stay with us for until he gets on his feet. He got a decent job, bought himself a car with cash, paid off some debt and is on target to re-release into the wild this coming January.

Because of the way we raised them both, they not only know but they want to be independent. We told them that we plan to spend every penny and as we are spending that last penny we will both fall over dead. That is the plan. So no expectations of an inheritance. Doesnt mean they wont get one, it just means they cant plan for one.

 

[Danmar]

This is a relevant current topic to me. Every family is different and I don’t need anyone telling me “I’m doing it all wrong”. Suffice to say we have been extremely generous to my 33 year old DD. You name it, and we have done it. Result has been wonderful. She is a hard working, intelligent, street smart young woman. Biggest issue remaining is her need to buy a house in Toronto’s very expensive market. But the “Bank of Dad” will be there. She never asks for anything(doesnt have to) and never acts “entitled”. I am very happy that we are in a position to help. Couldn’t have worked out any better.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I have 3 grown sons and my husband has 2. WE have helped when needed just like our own parents did. However, one of my sons was getting too comfortable when he was 30 and after living at our house for 6 months I gave him 2 months to leave. I did not want him to get too comfortable living at home.

 

[athena53]

My parents managed expectations. We knew they were saving to put us through college but after undergrad they were done. Since Mom and Dad were so mean they wouldn't allow sleepovers with my boyfriends I was more than happy to get out ASAP. I also decided that I wouldn't think of myself as a woman until I was self-supporting. I started my first real job the day after my college graduation and haven't looked back.

My brother lived with my parents after graduation even though he had a 1.5-hour one-way commute (in Ohio that's crazy). When my parents moved to Buffalo and he HAD to get out he took half their food, toilet paper, etc. with him to his new place. They did continue to pay college costs for my brother and sister who married before graduation and they chipped in when my BIL was working 3 jobs to get my sister through med school, which she started at age 30.

All of us have been out of college for 35+ years now and haven't had to come back to the nest. Same for my DS, who stayed in the city where he attended college after graduation in 2007 and found a job there.

 

[2soon2tell]

Jeffman,

Just a thought that the NSA or CIA might be interested in your son based on his foreign language skills.

 

[38Chevy454]

Good for you Ray, stay hard as nails in your commitment to force self-sufficiency on your kids. Except for rare cases, kids need that push out of the nest. MamaRay-bird needs to toughen up and work on that.

There's a difference between a safety net and a hammock.

 

[45th Birthday]

Some of these stories make me feel lucky to have our two kids mostly off the payroll. I thought I was moving slowly. Both graduated from college with no debt. We paid for everything and gave them a bit of spending money, but they worked small jobs during school, and had nicely paying jobs during the summer. They actually saved money while in college. Upon graduation they were gifted enough money to buy a fairly nice vehicle. Both have relatively expensive "hobbies" that they have managed to pursue while managing the costs.

We still have them on our phone plan, which isn't very costly. We pay for all travel for them to visit us (neither lives nearby), which amounts to a bit but also means they visit often. Also have started gifting them what amounts to 5-10% of their pay, and we have made it clear we expect them to save, but don't put explicit rules in place.

Son is entering third year out of school. He is a teacher, and loves it, but he will never earn big bucks. He is saving diligently, though. In a relationship with another teacher, and their combined salaries easily support a nice lifestyle. Son and girlfriend lived with us this summer while working well-paying jobs consistent with their avocations. We live in a resort area in the summer, and they lived with us rent-free and other than helping with chores were not expected to contribute to household expenses. We will never expect anything else, and they will probably continue to do this in the future at least for a time.

Daughter is a consultant, entering the second year out of college. Ironically, though she is better educated in financial aspects of life, she has a harder time controlling her spending urges. Got a bit of an awakening this year when she realized how much she had been spending.

 

[MichaelB]

The only reason people have these problems is because of those pesky child labor laws back in '38. Before then children earned their keep and there was no freeloading.