Gifting money to a child for student loans - taxable? Limits?

From the IRS:

What is considered a gift?

Any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money's worth) is not received in return.

Do the forum members interpret the above to apply to the situation where my ex pays the loan off directly? IOW, would it be considered a gift from an IRS perspective if she paid the loan off?
 
Do the forum members interpret the above to apply to the situation where my ex pays the loan off directly? IOW, would it be considered a gift from an IRS perspective if she paid the loan off?

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

My interpretation is not worth much to you. My interpretation is that anything under $15K may be excluded, because it is:
"Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year."

I wouldn't be concerned about what an ex pays off.
 
..... However and instead of the above, there are ways around that $15K limit. Anyone can write a $15k check to DD or anyone else for that matter. So your Ex can write a $15K check to DD, another $15K check to you that you then route to DD, perhaps another or the remaining amount to a family member or friend that they route to DD.

Yes, it sounds like "musical checks" but it is all perfectly legal. ...

Do you have any citations for this?
 
Do the forum members interpret the above to apply to the situation where my ex pays the loan off directly? IOW, would it be considered a gift from an IRS perspective if she paid the loan off?

I would think so.......you've already been provided w/ the info that she could have paid the some of the student costs directly to the school. This is not to the school but to the lender so annual gifting is not unlimited. Your DD is the one obligated to pay off the loan so I would think this is effectively a gift to your DD (indirectly) even tho ex pays off the loan directly.
 
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I'm unclear how this definition of a gift applies. Was this the entire link?

The OP now has 3 ways to advise his Ex, paying the loan off directly minus room and board, Senators' suggestion, my suggestion and all without filing a gift tax return.

What I suggested is not a novel idea. The OP or those interested can google it all themselves or ask their accountants. I googled it, but no point in providing the many links that say, "you can gift the limit to any individual or multiple individuals."

The IRS does not say any one recipient can not receive gifts from multiple individuals.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes
I don't know why it seems to be under small business. There are clear references to individual gift giving in the link.

Regarding paying off the loan, Publication 559 says:

The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule.
Generally, the following gifts aren't taxable gifts.

  • ...
  • Tuition or medical expenses paid directly to an educational or medical institution for someone else.
So paying off a loan doesn't qualify either.


Two of your three ways are not legal. Senator's way is, but the OP said nothing about making a gift--it's the ex- that wants to do it. The question raised was how can the ex- make the gift, not how can the ex- AND the OP and someone else in the world make a gift to her. Now, if the ex- is remarried and DD is married, they can make up to a $60K gift with no paperwork or consequences.



As was said, this is all on the honor system. The IRS isn't likely to pick up on an indirect gift through another party, or some scheme like paying half the loan and making the other half a gift, or anything like that. But if you get caught, it is illegal. You are suggesting things that appear to be illegal.
 
I can not imagine our Company Accountant of over 60 years and who is a stickler would have recommended it, especially when he knew he was going to have to file an Estate Federal Tax Return that included valuations on our business.

"A" can gift to "DD".
" B" can gift to "DD"
"C" can gift to "DD".

Then:

" A" can gift to B to reimburse him/her.
"A" can gift to C to reimburse him/her.

As far as I know, the IRS doesn't dictate who a person can gift to.
Or do as Senator above suggest. The clock starts over on Jan 1st.

I'm with kaneohe and RunningBum on this one.... the IRS will look at the overall substance of the transactions as A effectively gifting more than the annual exclusion to DD. While the IRS doesn't dictate who you can gift to, they can dictate when a gift tax return needs to be filed and where transactions designed to avoid fiiling are abusive.

Now would they come down hard on one for not filing what is in essence an informational return with no tax due? Who knows, it depends on who you get and the mood that they are in.... but if they think you were trying to sidestep the rules and you give them any attitude they might come down hard on you to make you an example.... I might if I were the examiner.

Filing a gift tax return is pretty simple from my looking at the form this morning. If the OP's ex doesn't want to file a gift tax return then they can gift $15k in 2019, again in 2020 and the remainder in 2021.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcar...return-trap-and-how-to-avoid-it/#3c8c19cf6bfa
 
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Do the forum members interpret the above to apply to the situation where my ex pays the loan off directly? IOW, would it be considered a gift from an IRS perspective if she paid the loan off?

Yes, if you pay someone else's debt then it is a gift to the debtor.... similar to if your employer pays your personal expense (like country club dues) then it is income to you.
 
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

My interpretation is not worth much to you. My interpretation is that anything under $15K may be excluded, because it is:
"Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year."

I wouldn't be concerned about what an ex pays off.

Totally irrelevant and unhelpful post... it doesn't address the OP's question at all and the OP is concerned about what the ex does... otherwise they never could have started this thread.
 
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes
I don't know why it seems to be under small business. There are clear references to individual gift giving in the link.

Regarding paying off the loan, Publication 559 says:

So paying off a loan doesn't qualify either.


Two of your three ways are not legal. Senator's way is, but the OP said nothing about making a gift--it's the ex- that wants to do it. The question raised was how can the ex- make the gift, not how can the ex- AND the OP and someone else in the world make a gift to her. Now, if the ex- is remarried and DD is married, they can make up to a $60K gift with no paperwork or consequences.



As was said, this is all on the honor system. The IRS isn't likely to pick up on an indirect gift through another party, or some scheme like paying half the loan and making the other half a gift, or anything like that. But if you get caught, it is illegal. You are suggesting things that appear to be illegal.

To my knowledge, it is NOT illegal. Please reference these links and note where it says you can gift the amount to anyone and/or multiple "anyones". They do not have to be related to you either. Substitute the 2019 gift tax of $15,000 for the $14,000 cited in one of these.

https://www.schwab.com/resource-cen...-free-gift-limits-how-much-money-can-you-give

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/25/how-much-money-can-you-gift-tax-free.aspx
 
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Yes, it is true that you can gift to multiple people.

What you can't do is gift to multiple people with an arranged agreement that some of those will re-gift to a person that you have already gifted to... or "reimburse" someone for making a gift to someone who you chose... all orchestrated to avoid having to file a gift tax return. Is it likely that you will get caught? No. If you did get caught would they slam you or let you off with a slap-on-the-wrists? Who knows... how lucky do you feel?

Find us one or two reputable cites that advocate this musical gifts scheme that you are advocating and we'll reconsider.... but I can't find anything anywhere other than your and Senator's posts.
 
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To my knowledge, it is NOT illegal. Please reference these links and note where it says you can gift the amount to anyone and/or multiple "anyones". They do not have to be related to you either. Substitute the 2019 gift tax of $15,000 for the $14,000 cited in one of these.

https://www.schwab.com/resource-cen...-free-gift-limits-how-much-money-can-you-give

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/25/how-much-money-can-you-gift-tax-free.aspx
Neither of these links in any way addresses circumventing the limit by gifting more than $15,000 to an individual by gifting indirectly through another person.

At this point we're just going around in circles. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't advise anyone else do it without verifying with the IRS or an estate tax expert. A corporate accountant doesn't qualify. If you want to do it, that's your business, but IMO you're on shaky ground. I showed you a quote from an IRS site that an indirect gift is treated the same as a direct gift. I don't see how you can ignore it, especially when it's done as a deliberate move to circumvent the limit.

I'm done unless you come up with something relevant to the situation.
 
What the OP's ex could do is to a) gift DD $15k in 2019 and b) lend DD the $25k needed to pay off the $40k of student loans in 2019 (and document the loan with a signed interest-bearing note).

The OP's ex could forgive $15k of the loan in January 2020 and the remainder in January 2021. No gift tax return would need to be filed.

The loan would have to bear interest to be legit and the OP's ex would have a bit of interest income so there would be a minor cost.
 
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Neither of these links in any way addresses circumventing the limit by gifting more than $15,000 to an individual by gifting indirectly through another person.

At this point we're just going around in circles. I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't advise anyone else do it without verifying with the IRS or an estate tax expert. A corporate accountant doesn't qualify. If you want to do it, that's your business, but IMO you're on shaky ground. I showed you a quote from an IRS site that an indirect gift is treated the same as a direct gift. I don't see how you can ignore it, especially when it's done as a deliberate move to circumvent the limit.

I'm done unless you come up with something relevant to the situation.

Our external corporate accountant IS an Estate Tax expert. He has his own practice and performs audits for cities and counties. I would take his word over some here.

The OP was not talking about gifting hundreds of thousands of dollars. What he is talking about amounts to three, $ 15,000 gifts. Very doable without filing a gift tax return.

You may to like the advice but that doesn't make it wrong.
 
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Our external corporate accountant IS an Estate Tax expert. He has his own practice and performs audits for cities and counties. ....

That makes no sense at all. Why would an estate tax expert be doing audits for cities and counties? There is no estate tax at the city or county level to my knowledge. I guess it is possible that he could be both an estate tax expert and a municipal audit expert, but that is an unusual combination.

But in any event, you don't have any supporting information other than an assertion that this so-called expert advocated such a scheme.
 
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Our external corporate accountant IS an Estate Tax expert. He has his own practice and performs audits for cities and counties. I would take his word over some here.

The OP was not talking about gifting hundreds of thousands of dollars. What he is talking about amounts to three, $ 15,000 gifts. Very doable without filing a gift tax return.

You may to like the advice but that doesn't make it wrong.
The amount is irrelevant. If it's illegal for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's illegal for anything over $15,000. It's only less likely to be noticed by the IRS, or might incur less punishment.

It's not a matter of whether I like the advice, it's a matter of it being contrary to what the IRS says.

Perhaps you misunderstood what that guy said, or he misunderstood your question.
 
One of the times google is failing me........I'm sure something similar has been discussed on the internet before but I can't find anything. Next best thing: (I don't understand the details of the scheme but the general ideas make sense)

https://www.taxinglessons.com/case-step-transaction-doctrine/
THE QUESTION
When can separate steps in a multi-part transaction be collapsed into one?

THE DISPUTE
Taxpayer Says: Each of four transfers of property had an independent business purpose and they should not be collapsed into a single transaction.

Internal Revenue Service Says: The transfers were divided into four parts instead of one solely to avoid gift tax.

THE LAW
From From Holman v. Commissioner, 130 T.C. 170, 187 (2008), affd. ___ F.3d ___ (8th Cir., Apr. 7, 2010): Where an interrelated series of steps is taken pursuant to a plan to achieve an intended result, the tax consequences are to be determined not by viewing each step in isolation, but by considering all of them as an integrated whole.

From Senda v. Commissioner, 433 F.3d 1044, 1049 (8th Cir. 2006) (citing Commissioner v. Clark, supra at 738), affg. T.C. Memo. 2004-160: The step transaction doctrine is “well-established” and “expressly sanctioned” and may be applied in the area of gift tax where intra-family transactions often occur. Whether several transactions should be considered integrated steps of a single transaction is a question of fact.

From Estate of Cidulka v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 1996-149: It is appropriate to use the step transaction doctrine where the only reason that a single transaction was done as two or more separate transactions was to avoid gift tax.
*******************************************

In OP's case: ex gives to DD; ex-DH; person C
***************************************
ex-DH,person C gifts to DD
**************************************
in some minds, seeming unrelated.....can be semi-camouflaged by
delaying step 2 and by changing amounts in step 1, step 2 so they
are not the same
*******************************************************
IRS would claim that you have to look at the whole picture and that the end result is that ex gave > annual limit to DD and that it was thought out in advance. Perhaps they would look at how often gifts were given by ex DH
and person C to DD in the past and wonder about the coincidence of timing this time for this first time event. Perhaps they wouldn't put you on a lie detector but I would hate to be under the agent's gaze when they ask about
whether there was an ulterior motive. I would probably explore other more conservative methods before doing this.
 
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That makes no sense at all. Why would an estate tax expert be doing audits for cities and counties? There is no estate tax at the city or county level to my knowledge. I guess it is possible that he could be both an estate tax expert and a municipa audit expert, but that is an unusual combination.

But in any event, you don't have any supporting information other than an assertion that this so-called expert advocated such a scheme.

Jeezzz....I didn't think I would have to go into this. He and his partners have a multi-tierd CPA practice and perform regular taxes, Corporate taxes, Estate Taxes, City and County audits, Corporate Buy outs, Mergers,...etc.

In addition, another state wide respected CPA, a partner in his large firm with notable and published achievements as well as my ex-husband who is a CPA concurred.

A scheme? Hardly.

At this point, none of this is helping the OP. Hopefully he now has all the information he needs or at least he can research himself.
 
^^^ I think you are misinterpreting it. When they refer to "step-transaction doctrine" they are referring to viewing a group of related transactions as one for tax purposes... in other words, for tax purposes looking at the economic substance of the related transactions rather than their legal form.... that is what is well established.

So what is "well established" and "expressly sanctioned" is the IRS looking at the transactions as a whole (in this case a $40k gift to the DD) rather than the legal form (in this case of 3 gifts under $15k to the DD and two gifts from the ex to reimburse the other givers).

Another example would be where an employer pays the personal expenses of an employee, like country club dues. The payment is income to the employee even though the payment is made by the employer directly to the country club because the substance is the employer pays income to the employee and the employee turns around and pays their country club dues.... the economic substance prevails over the legal form.
 
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OP here...thank you all for your feedback.

Someone mentioned something about 'if the ex is remarried'. She is not. (Doesn't want to forfeit that alimony!) And the $40k is all from her - none of it from me. DD is not married either.
 
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