Going Solar

[Another Reader]

The salesman would not guarantee the installation under NEM 1.0 in early September. Said he was starting to tell people they would likely end up on NEM 2.0 around September 15th. Even playing the "send in the application to PG&E when the permit was issued" game was no guarantee you would get in under the wire because of how many people wanted to get in before the change.

The installers you see out today are installing under contracts signed around 60 days ago. Those folks will get in under NEM 1.0.

 

[mpeirce]

Up here going solar means no grid as backup. With the power company wanting $5k + for each pole and all the other charges for hook-up, my neighbor decided to go off-grid. He has to be very careful with selecting appliances, but seems to be doing fine. They have four kids and live up here for six or seven months of the year.

I have an Aunt who lived off grid in far northern California back in the 80's. No solar for them. They used propane appliances and fired up a generator once or twice a week to run a washer.

They did just fine. Raised two kids and didn't miss not having electricity.

It wasn't quite like visiting an amish family, but there were certain similarities.

 

[Mulligan]

Well Robbie, based on your pre solar bill, I know something now that would quickly get me distracted from my Obamacare premium....Paying 34 cents a KW! That would leave a welt on my wallet. And people where I live complain about our 9 cent KW...

 

[Winemaker]

Just signed up with new supplier on Monday, 6.59 cents/kwh for next 18 months, up from 6.50 cent/kwh. Gotta keep Mully liquid with his utility divvies!

 

[Mulligan]

Just signed up with new supplier on Monday, 6.59 cents/kwh for next 18 months, up from 6.50 cent/kwh. Gotta keep Mully liquid with his utility divvies!

Winemaker, Im keeping a wayward eye on them solar producing people. I try to stay with the T&D utes who will let any type of juice flow through it and not ever potentially disrupt my divvies, lol. I assume you are in an area where you select your power supplier? We do not have that option. 6.59 is a very nice price. No excuses to not have a warm house in the winter and cool in the summer!

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah, it's easy to see that the most solar activity happens where electric rates are high. Makes sense. Also makes sense to size to 80 to 90 % of usage, you really don't want to be selling juice at 4 cents a KWh.

I like to go outside and watch the power meter. It it high in the morning, but decreases as the day goes on and then returns at night to where it started. I power the house with solar during the day as well as power the grid and then I draw it back in the evening. The meter does not move a lot anymore -

On cloudy/rainy days, it generates only 10-20% of a sunny day and the meter shows it.

In seven years I should break even on investment and then I start stacking dough again for the next 18 years. Pretty cool!

 

[jazz4cash]

Well Robbie, based on your pre solar bill, I know something now that would quickly get me distracted from my Obamacare premium....Paying 34 cents a KW! That would leave a welt on my wallet. And people where I live complain about our 9 cent KW...

It looks like the rates include distribution fees. Our connection and distribution fees are approx 40% of the total bill and represent nearly all of the savings from solar if you lease. All in we pay around 16 cents/kWh.

 

[RobbieB]

On solar a whole month billing cycle now and don't have the whole billing detail yet, but there is this little tidbit from PG&E;

 

[Another Reader]

Kicking myself for not doing this earlier....

 

[travelover]

Kicking myself for not doing this earlier....

Not so fast. You do know that the sun will eventually burn out, right?

 

[Another Reader]

Not so fast. You do know that the sun will eventually burn out, right?

Pretty sure it's going to outlast the panels...

 

[MichaelB]

Not so fast. You do know that the sun will eventually burn out, right?

Does this mean we should update our FIRECalc projection and rethink that annuity?

 

[RobbieB]

Still no PDF, but here are some more tidbits. I know I'll be getting a bill for the grid connect and some taxes and the gas of course and I'm thinking that the credit will just be applied to the NEM true up bill annually. But it's pretty cool, and it does work and since my before annual electric use was ~$1800 a year if I can get 90% of that it's a seven and a half year payback.

Pretty cool -

 

[samclem]

Does this [sun burning out] mean we should update our FIRECalc projection and rethink that annuity?

I don't see any need to change. The salesman told me that the annuity would pay "no matter what", and without the sunlight I expect my light bill will be higher, so an annuity check would be even more welcome.

 

[Another Reader]

I don't see any need to change. The salesman told me that the annuity would pay "no matter what", and without the sunlight I expect my light bill will be higher, so an annuity check would be even more welcome.

Not to mention the heating bill...

 

[RetireAge50]

1

 

[RobbieB]

Ok, first complete bill arrived and I really do have a credit balance of $7.06, no payment required -

But that is because of the "California Climate Credit" of $28.14.

Gas charges - $11.56
Grid connect - 9.52
CC credit -28.14

Balance -7.06

My NEM charges were $9.03 on a net usage of 122 KWh, but they estimate my net cost at "true up" to be 2 dollars due to partial credit on grid connect fee.

So if this continues I'll be paying a whole twenty five to fifty bucks a year for electricity! How cool is that? For the rest of my life -

 

[Bimmerbill]

I did a free standing solar tracker just about a year ago. My electric bill is typically $13.00 a month, which is the "connection charge" from EverSource here in NH.

Unused electricity rolls forward. Right now I have almost 4800 KWh saved up. I also installed a split AC system with heat pump and run it when I need to.

NH has high electricity costs. My ROI calculated by the solar installers was a bit over 7 years. But I also get pain Renewable Energy Credits of about $50 per 1000 KWh generated and plan to apply that money toward paying off the solar loan quicker.

 

[RobbieB]

That's cool and the best way to do it too. If you can keep the array pointed at the sun you get full power all the time.

 

[RobbieB]

It's spring! And I have 6 months of generation on the books, the "short" 6 months, 9-21-16 to 3-20-17;

We've had a wet and cloudy and stormy season to boot. Looking forward to the next 6 months and my first annual true up bill. From what I see so far it's gonna be really small -

 

[RobbieB]

Just got my first true up bill. For a whole year of juice it cost me $260. Since I already paid $110 in "grid connect" fees and I am a net consumer I got full credit and only need to send in $150. I added up what a year cost me before solar and it was $1500, so I have a 10 year (9 more to go) break even.

Pretty cool -

 

[SumDay]

Our city owned utility installed a solar farm earlier this year. There was a "buy in" to secure up to 40% of your power from the farm, depending on how many units you signed up for. It sold out very quickly.

We aren't seeing a decrease in bills YET, but the buy-in guarantees our solar rate for the next 10 years, while the other 60% will be subject to the usual expected increases. A neighbor is on the utility board and told us they are adding more panels due to demand, and those who already bought may be able to bump up to 60% solar. I'll do it. For us, it's not so much $avings as it is environmental.

We have no panels in our yard or on our roof, which is a good thing since our HOA forbids it.

 

[scrinch]

Robbie I'm glad to hear that your first year of solar generation has gone well. I'm on year 12 now, and each of my years has gone like your first: smooth with no problems. Just some cleaning of the panels 2-3 times a year.

 

[skipro33]

Great to hear of your solar success. Don't forget to account for any utility company rate increases. Here in California, PG&E is implementing a new rate structure that would raise rates for most people. Not me, I'm grandfathered in under my rate of E6 (TOU with peak, off peak and shoulder rates that benefits solar generation time windows as well as summer/winter rates) until 2022. If I were forced to migrate to the new rate schedule, along with the overall rate increase across the board, my electric costs would surely be higher than my fixed schedule with rate increase.
What I'm trying to say is that the more PG&E raises it's rates, the quicker my capital investment in solar will pay for itself. A huge reason I went solar was because it's a pretty sure bet that energy prices will always climb.

 

[RobbieB]

Robbie I'm glad to hear that your first year of solar generation has gone well. I'm on year 12 now, and each of my years has gone like your first: smooth with no problems. Just some cleaning of the panels 2-3 times a year.

Yeah, it gets dusty here with all the wind and the commercial AG operations. My panels are low and close so I just go out every 3 months in the dry season and spray them with a garden hose in the morning when the sun is low and not on them. Gets about a 5% increase.