Going Solar

[NW-Bound]

It's spring! And I have 6 months of generation on the books, the "short" 6 months, 9-21-16 to 3-20-17;

We've had a wet and cloudy and stormy season to boot. Looking forward to the next 6 months and my first annual true up bill. From what I see so far it's gonna be really small -

I look at my electricity usage during the exact same period, and it was 7100 kWh. Yes, my utility company Web site lets me download the usage over the past 36 months.

In another post, you said your previous annual bill was $1500. Do you know off-hand how many kWh you used a year?

I used 17,500 kWh/yr, at a cost of $2080. I know electric rate is much higher in CA, but wonder how much higher.

 

[nash031]

I look at my electricity usage during the exact same period, and it was 7100 kWh. Yes, my utility company Web site lets me download the usage over the past 36 months.



In another post, you said your previous annual bill was $1500. Do you know off-hand how many kWh you used a year?



I used 17,500 kWh/yr, at a cost of $2080. I know electric rate is much higher in CA, but wonder how much higher.

ARISE THREAD!

Considering solar in a new house purchase. But have to look at possibly replacing the roof first(with seller credit)...

Researched our costs and we average $0.225/kWh here in San Diego. Base rate is around $0.13; high user peak of $0.36/kWh in the summer. Average monthly bill for electricity alone is $146, peaking in the summer near $300 with a toddler and nanny home all day.

Thanks to this thread, I’ve learned a lot. (Roof repair prior to solar? 30% tax credit!) I ran the pvcalc among other calls, and most recommended a 5.4kW install if we decide to run AC and an electric tankless water heater. Cost around $16k, $12k after incentive, payback in 6.2-7yrs. IRR on up front investment over 25 yrs of around 10%, not including opportunity cost of investing the cash up front.

Seriously considering this move since the roof will likely need work anyway, the breaker box needs replaced, and we should get electric, roof, and water heater credits from the seller at closing.

 

[RobbieB]

My second annual true up is this month. I think my annual bill for juice this year will be less than $200. Since I do not net generate I get full credit on my connect fee and I'll owe them less than a hundred bucks.

 

[Hermit]

With water coming out of the well at about 45 degrees, I decided to go with a regular high end electric water heater. Trying to bring water at that temp up to hot water levels would have taken several on demand heaters in a row. I don't think you should have that kind of problem in San Diego. (BTW, I am thinking about putting an on demand heater in line after the water heater to supplement during any high use of the hot water.)

 

[NW-Bound]

My chosen price plan charges $0.0727/kWh for off-peak hours, and $0.2215/kWh for the on-peak period from 1PM to 8PM.

In the month of July 2017, I used 2775kWh at a cost of $350. That's an average of $0.126/kWh.

... Researched our costs and we average $0.225/kWh here in San Diego. Base rate is around $0.13; high user peak of $0.36/kWh in the summer. Average monthly bill for electricity alone is $146, peaking in the summer near $300 with a toddler and nanny home all day...

If I had to pay your average rate, my bill would have been $624 in July. But then, if I were in SD, I would not use so much electricity.

 

[Popeye]

Has anyone experienced a condo association going to solar on the buildings? We have buildings divided into four units each with plenty of roof area that looks ideal. I wonder how that would work in a condo / HOA situation.

 

[nash031]

My chosen price plan charges $0.0727/kWh for off-peak hours, and $0.2215/kWh for the on-peak period from 1PM to 8PM.



In the month of July 2017, I used 2775kWh at a cost of $350. That's an average of $0.126/kWh.









If I had to pay your average rate, my bill would have been $624 in July. But then, if I were in SD, I would not use so much electricity.

We used about a third of that even running A/C. But our avg costs are why I’m considering it. While residential solar is financially questionable in a lot of places, here it is just shy of a no brainer if things like longevity in the house, roof condition, and electricity use line up.

 

[nash031]

With water coming out of the well at about 45 degrees, I decided to go with a regular high end electric water heater. Trying to bring water at that temp up to hot water levels would have taken several on demand heaters in a row. I don't think you should have that kind of problem in San Diego. (BTW, I am thinking about putting an on demand heater in line after the water heater to supplement during any high use of the hot water.)

I’m concerned about the tankless’ ability to keep up. I’ll have a family of four with two bathrooms. I think a high end one can keep up, and running solar I wouldn’t care much about electric, so it reduces the up front cost vs. gas by about 50%. But I’d like to go tankless if we can... we’ll see what kind of seller credit we get too.

 

[NW-Bound]

I’m concerned about the tankless’ ability to keep up. I’ll have a family of four with two bathrooms. I think a high end one can keep up, and running solar I wouldn’t care much about electric, so it reduces the up front cost vs. gas by about 50%. But I’d like to go tankless if we can... we’ll see what kind of seller credit we get too.

With the new solar pricing plan where I am, one would not go tankless. There is a cost associated with the peak demand, even if the homeowner pulls out from the grid the same kWh that he puts in.

Their reasoning is that a solar homeowner may put electricity to the grid when there is not a lot of demand, yet pull from the grid where everybody is using a lot of electricity and the sun is setting.

 

[tb001]

I’m concerned about the tankless’ ability to keep up. I’ll have a family of four with two bathrooms. I think a high end one can keep up, and running solar I wouldn’t care much about electric, so it reduces the up front cost vs. gas by about 50%. But I’d like to go tankless if we can... we’ll see what kind of seller credit we get too.

Nash, curious if you have a solar provider you’ve heard good things about. We’re looking at relocating to the area and for the home we’re looking at, solar is a top priority. SDG&E rates are crazy.

 

[samclem]

Has PV gotten so cheap that it makes economic sense to use it to heat water electrically rather than heat water directly with the sun? I understand the storage issue and that solar water heating requires some mechanical complexities, but heating water directly used to be the first and most cost-effective step for anyone who wanted to use the sun to cut their electric bill.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can get solar panels for $0.40 to $0.50 per watt from a vendor in town.

Using solar electric to heat water is not as efficient as direct solar water heating. But when you consider that running electrical wire is a lot simpler than running plumbing, other factors enter into play. There's a maintenance issue too with the water piping and insulation, the freeze protection, the danger of water leak, etc...

PV solar panel efficiency is approaching 20%. Even if a solar water panel is 80% efficient, it may be a lot easier to put up 4 photovoltaic panels and wire them up, compared to one water panel and all the plumbing.

 

[nash031]

Has anyone experienced a condo association going to solar on the buildings? We have buildings divided into four units each with plenty of roof area that looks ideal. I wonder how that would work in a condo / HOA situation.

While reading our owner handbook this morning, our current "village" is a condominium and has rules regarding solar. To wit, CA law prohibits the HOA from holding a vote to determine if owners can install solar or not, but the roofs are considered "common property", so the HOA/Architectural board still has to approve it. And then, if approved, the owner becomes responsible for the roof with no discount to their monthly assessment. So you can imagine that not a single home in our village has solar.

The "village" we are moving to (within the same HOA) is custom single family homes, so while the HOA still has to bless it, it's an easier process from that end since we will already own the roof.

 

[nash031]

Nash, curious if you have a solar provider you’ve heard good things about. We’re looking at relocating to the area and for the home we’re looking at, solar is a top priority. SDG&E rates are crazy.

Not yet, but I'll report back here. We just accepted an offer on our current home this morning, which means our contigent purchase of the new house will go through. Anticipate moving next month (about two blocks away).

There are going to be some hoops to jump through first: I'm getting the roof inspected by a contractor as it's 40-years old. I intend to request a credit from the seller if it's determined that it needs to be replaced or repaired. If that happens, I may look for an "economy of scale" for a roofer who is also a solar installer. We'll see. One of the new neighbors has a 12-panel system on their roof, so I'm going to pick their brains as well.

I'll post updates as this goes on, but I'm leaning strongly toward an immediate solar install once the roof is all sorted out.

 

[nash031]

With the new solar pricing plan where I am, one would not go tankless. There is a cost associated with the peak demand, even if the homeowner pulls out from the grid the same kWh that he puts in.

Their reasoning is that a solar homeowner may put electricity to the grid when there is not a lot of demand, yet pull from the grid where everybody is using a lot of electricity and the sun is setting.

Thanks. I'm weighing options for all of that, and there are questions I need to ask on the solar end of it before I go the electric tankless route. It might be overkill with an AC install in the future... Gas is inexpensive, so perhaps a gas tanked or tankless is the way to go. Gas tankless would be more expensive up front, but they generally last 20+years (supposedly) whereas tanked are 7-12 years. The current one in the "new" house is 19 years old and badly in need of replacement... so we'll request a credit for that.

 

[RobbieB]

The electric rate here (PGE) starts at 24 cents / kwh and peaks at 44 cents. Solar pays back fast.

 

[ERD50]

Has anyone experienced a condo association going to solar on the buildings? We have buildings divided into four units each with plenty of roof area that looks ideal. I wonder how that would work in a condo / HOA situation.

Condo or SFH, I'd really recommend that people look into buying a share of a solar farm. It really makes so much more sense to put in one large installation on a flat roof or flat ground somewhere. The installation is safer (rooftop solar is actually associated with a high % of deaths/injuries, worse than even coal I think), there is economy of scale (one permit, one team at one location, one electrical connection, etc), all the panels will be at the optimum angle, and no shade, (often not the case with residential), and you don't have to worry about moving.

the first link I found:

https://www.energysage.com/solar/community-solar/community-solar-power-explained/

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

OK, time for another annual true up. My panels generated 6000 kWh and I had a net usage from the power company of 1260 kWh. My bill for the entire year was $190. But since I used more than I generated I got full credit for the connect fee $120 and only need to send them seventy bucks.

Sweet -

 

[scrinch]

Our twelfth true-up was in June. Our 3kW system generated about 4800kWh for the year, and we used 100kWh less than that. So we only had to pay the $10/mo delivery charge. PG&E got to keep the $30 from our excess generation. I think that's a reasonable charge for providing and maintaining the power grid to our house year-round.

 

[Texas Proud]

What would it have cost you if you had to pay 100%? What is breakeven?


I used over 14,000 kWh and paid about $1,400... I will be higher this year as the rate I could get went up...

 

[Freedom56]

Here are the vitals of our 5.28KW system

22 Microinverters, 1 Envoy Ethernet
Santa Clarita, CA
System Normal
Full System EnergyToday 30.2 kWh
Peak: 4.08 kW at 1:40 PM
Latest: 24 W at 7:30 PM
Past 7 Days 211 kWh
Month To Date 827 kWh 110% of estimated
Lifetime 57.9 MWh 120% of estimated
Maximum Produced 38.2kWh
Total Produced 57.9MWh
Estimated 48.2MWh

5.28 KW System using 22 Kyocera KD240GX-LPB Panels 22 M215 microinverters. Azimuth 200 degrees. Installation performed by Solar Electrical Systems, West Lake Village, CA

Our system went live at the end of October 2012 and generates about 10 MW per year and our consumption is just under that. Our base rate was 7 cents/KWH and as high as 27 cents back in 2012. It is now 17 and 38 cents. Our bill used to be about $3800 per year and it would be much higher now. Operating our pool consumes 33% of our energy. The A/C in the summer is also an energy hog. We have a net credit of approximately $200 annually. Our out of pocket costs were $23K cash for the system minus $1832 rebate from Socal Edison minus the 30% tax credit for a final price of just under $16K cash. Our break-even was just over 4 years. For solar installations, you really need to compare with other investments. A net $16K investment yielding a net savings of about $4000 annually yields an after tax return of 25% in our case. Very few investments can do that. The component costs would be lower today and with higher rates, the break-even would be even shorter. Photo voltaic systems are worthwhile investments if you:

1- can mount your system facing south.
2- have enough space to cover your energy needs
3- have a reliable installer.
4- have a lot of sunshine

Before you install any solar panel system, convert the lighting in your home to LED and if you have a pool, install a variable speed pump. Those changes alone will drop your consumption by about 22%.

 

[ERD50]

What would it have cost you if you had to pay 100%? What is breakeven?


I used over 14,000 kWh and paid about $1,400... I will be higher this year as the rate I could get went up...

At ~ $0.1/kWh, I don't think payback will look too exciting.

... Photo voltaic systems are worthwhile investments if you:

1- can mount your system facing south.
2- have enough space to cover your energy needs
3- have a reliable installer.
4- have a lot of sunshine ...

You forgot #5. "have other people pay for ~ 1/3rd of your investment".

-ERD50

 

[Freedom56]

At ~ $0.1/kWh, I don't think payback will look too exciting.



You forgot #5. "have other people pay for ~ 1/3rd of your investment".

-ERD50

In 2012 I was still working and paid over $128K in income taxes. So tax credits only reduced my taxes. Even in retirement, I'm paying about $83K per year in income taxes. So I'm subsidizing a lot of government perks for many people like healthcare subsidies.

 

[Texas Proud]

At ~ $0.1/kWh, I don't think payback will look too exciting.



You forgot #5. "have other people pay for ~ 1/3rd of your investment".

-ERD50

Well, I am up to almost .12 now


BUT, we have a lot of pine trees and the house is not a candidate for solar... heck, I have problems keeping the grass alive in the back yard as it does not get enough sun.... had a few trees trimmed and put in grass that is supposed to live with just 25% full sun... still have dead spots...

 

[Bimmerbill]

I pay $13 monthly for the connection to grid fee. Other than that I haven't paid for any electricity since I put in my solar. I sell renewable energy credits (RECs) back to the power company but the prices have fallen from $45 to $12, I think due to the number of people with solar now.