Gustav

Looks like Gustav will be nearing the gulf by next weekend. Should be worth a $6-$7 spike in the price of oil, just in time for the holiday weekend.
 
coming back from a low point of 8.82 ft from the summer 2007 drought to about 11.24 ft just before fay to 13.41 ft today, lake okeechobee is now only 0.63 ft below its seasonal norm level.

gustav might be just what we need to complete restoration of lake water levels, though as of now it looks like it will pass well to our south. still, never too early to make everyone's anxiety levels rise.
 
Keep an Eye on Gustav

I don't like the looks of this one. Here's the latest track prediction from the National Hurricane Center: National Hurricane Center
 

Attachments

  • Gustav.gif
    Gustav.gif
    34.8 KB · Views: 7
Somewhat related, I was surprised to read an article the other day that said that the levies and flood controls that were reconstructed after Katrina arent worth spit and may actually provide a weaker level of flood protection than the ones that failed. Many areas offer only 100 year protection or worse.

Against that set of facts, most people living in the area think that they're sitting behind better protection than they had pre-katrina. I think the article said something like 1/3 of the homes in the area that flooded will flood again over the next decade or two.
 
Somewhat related, I was surprised to read an article the other day that said that the levies and flood controls that were reconstructed after Katrina arent worth spit and may actually provide a weaker level of flood protection than the ones that failed. Many areas offer only 100 year protection or worse.

Against that set of facts, most people living in the area think that they're sitting behind better protection than they had pre-katrina.

I have not encountered one single person in the whole area who thinks that, other than those who moved here after Katrina and don't know any better.
 
Thats good to know. I wish I could find the article (something on AP) but I cant. It basically made it sound like everyone in the area thought they were safe and had been duped into thinking that.
 
CFB, from that article:
concern about levee safety was dropping off the list of top worries, replaced by crime, incompetent leadership and corruption.
Other than the survey that gave these results, they quoted a very few individuals that they managed to dig up.

I am thinking that the above quote doesn't mean that people aren't concerned about levee safety. I would have said the same. We have multiple serious problems and some may destroy the city before "Katrina II" shows up (unless that is Gustav).

As for me, I'm hightailing it out of here as soon as I am eligible to retire. I made that decision in October, 2005, but for now I am chained here by the proverbial "golden handcuffs".

People that I work with, from top scientists and federal regulators to the black ladies in hairnets running the snack bar who I just bought my boiled egg and banana lunch from a few minutes ago, have already started reserving hotel rooms for the evacuation, getting medicines they might need, and packing their stuff.
 
Last edited:
Want2, that is good news, I know that for a number of years after Hugo, we all were WAY more motivated to get our stuff together for evacuations than before. Now, it has been so many years and there are so many new people here, that it will be a carnival sideshow to get these people outta town.
Unfortunately, the folks in Florida seem to be staying in pretty good practice.
 
CFB, from that article:

I am thinking that doesn't mean that people aren't concerned about levee safety. We have multiple serious problems and some may destroy the city before "Katrina II" shows up (unless that is Gustav).

As for me, I'm hightailing it out of here as soon as I am eligible to retire. I made that decision in October, 2005, but for now I am chained here by the proverbial "golden handcuffs".

People that I work with, from top scientists and federal regulators to the black ladies in hairnets running the snack bar who I just bought my boiled egg and banana lunch from a few minutes ago, have already started reserving hotel rooms for the evacuation, getting medicines they might need, and packing their stuff.

Wow W2R, are folks really worried about Gustav there already? It's very far away and could take many different paths at this point. In any event, I'll be hoping this doesn't end up being a major storm.
 
Wow W2R, are folks really worried about Gutav there already? It's very far away and could take many different paths at this point. In any event, I'll be hoping this doesn't end up being a major storm.
Of course it can take many different paths! :) Or, it could even stall where it is. We usually have a lot better idea after a storm is in the Gulf. Katrina entered the Gulf on Friday the 26th, and then impacted New Orleans the following Monday. Chances that Gustav will land in New Orleans are quite small at present.

This is S.O.P. for people living here, always has been for some and many more are nervous about the levees and such, after Katrina. People quickly forgot that before Katrina hundreds of thousands of people successfully evacuated from here, despite the fact that there are only a handful of roads out of this water-surrounded area.

Those who don't have relatives in Baton Rouge or north Louisiana usually reserve a hotel room, and THEN wait to find out if the storm is a big one coming this way. Then they cancel it without evacuating when the storm doesn't arrive. Refilling prescriptions likewise is a no-brainer. Most people dust off their hurricane list but even those planning to evacuate don't pack too far in advance. Some do pack early. I generally pile my stuff in a heap on my kitchen table after a strong storm enters the Gulf, so that I can toss it in the trunk and get out in a hurry if I need to, to beat the (horrendous?) traffic.
 
Last edited:
This one might be one to worry about, although it looks like it's going to Mexico at the moment. This sucker intensified from a TD to a Cat 1 in 16 hours, tying the record for the shortest time for a storm to go from first advisory to Cat 1. These things are so unpredictable though, a lot of them look really scary at first and then go into a weakening phase before rebuilding and that's when they hit shore. Still, it's definitely time to get the checklist out.

Worried about Gustav already? Oh yes indeed. If you live along the GoM hurricanes are just a fact of life. For those of us who don't live right on the water we don't really worry about a storm unless it's going to hit at Cat 3 or above. And, to be honest, I don't really worry about a Cat 3 unless there is a concern that it is going to intensify before hitting land. A Cat 4 can do some serious damage far inland and a Cat 5 is going to bring some incredible destruction far from the beaches. Thank God Cat 5 landfalls are rare.

Now, if you live in a bowl shaped city that is mostly below the water level, and that city has been run for years by politicians and civil servants who are primarily concerned with "stealing all we can from every public project, and then steal a little more", you run like hell.
 
Now, if you live in a bowl shaped city that is mostly below the water level, and that city has been run for years by politicians and civil servants who are primarily concerned with "stealing all we can from every public project, and then steal a little more", you run like hell.

:2funny: Yep, that's "Plan A". "Plan B" is to run faster and further.

Of course, my real "Plan A" is to leave for good, and let the crooked politicians and criminals finish destroying what is left after I'm gone, but I can't do that for another 438 days.
 
Looks like the 5 day forecast says New Orleans or upper texas coast. There is a high building in north of cuba. If it does it should keep it south till it is in the gulf.
 
Looks like the 5 day forecast says New Orleans or upper texas coast. There is a high building in north of cuba. If it does it should keep it south till it is in the gulf.
The cone is a rough approximation based on the different models they use. Right now one model says Gustav will dissipate, another says it will do a double hit on Mexico (Yucatan and then south of Brownsville), another says upper Texas Coast and the last said Louisiana. Too early to tell. There's other models, but these are the ones that should be working best for this particular storm.

Haiti took a lot off Gustav and he's back down to a TS without an eye. If he scrubs along the southern coast of Cuba it could weaken even more. Sucks for my brothers and sisters at Gitmo though.

Once he clears Cuba and gets in that channel between Cuba and the Yucatan is the time to pay attention. I'm hoping he goes west and even south to blow some trees down in the jungle of the Yucatan. But, if he heads north through the channel there is a large pool of warmer water south of New Orleans that could make him big and mean and bad.
 
The waters in the Gulf aren't that warm. They are only in the 80's that in itself will limit the size of Gustav and probably be very limiting on hurricanes later in the season. People in Mississippi are also freaking out already. The general consensus is you weren't here for Katrina you don't know what a hurricane can do. I guess all my years living on the coast in the southeast including several years in Florida hasn't prepared me at all for the ravages of a hurricane, no matter how many I've lived through.
 
as of this writing gustav is expected to make u.s. landfall as a cat 3 in the norleans area but such predictions only become accurate enough to consider seriously within a day or two beforehand, and then, only when steering currents are strong enough to maintain the predicted trajectory.

watching these things over many years, i've found it best if they point at you early because that usually means you won't get hit.

as to gulf water temps, if you ever did much ocean swimming you've noticed passing through pockets of warm and cold water, even within short distances. proximity to the caribbean sea and interoceanic currents exaggerate that effect in the gulf. so a hurricane's strength in part depends upon over what pools it might pass.

NOAA Scientists Study How Hurricanes Intensify Over Deep Warm Pools of Gulf Water

The Loop Current is a stream of warm Caribbean water that enters the Yucatan Straits, meanders northward, sometimes extending to the Gulf Coast, and exits into the Florida Straits after a sharp turn around the Florida Keys where it becomes the Florida Current. Deep warm water eddies in the Gulf are spun off from the Loop Current as it goes through its 10-14 month cycle.

Warm eddies...are a tremendous source of energy to a storm that crosses their path, say Shay and Black. The hurricane winds draw heat from the water to fuel the storm, mixing the warm waters with the cooler waters below as the storm passes by. Because the layer of warm water is so thick within the Loop Current and eddy, the ocean surface experiences less storm-induced cooling than it would outside the these features, allowing for further intensification of the storm.

here are gulf temperatures aug 27th per Oceanweather, Inc

img_704219_0_f41ff47d25343654d9cabc675e487c03.jpg
 
The waters in the Gulf aren't that warm. They are only in the 80's that in itself will limit the size of Gustav and probably be very limiting on hurricanes later in the season.
I wasn't talking about the whole Gulf, I was referring to eddies from the loop current that runs up through the Yucatan Channel. The loop current goes into the GoM and then east toward Florida where it is called the Florida Current.

The loop current is very warm, much warmer than the rest of the GoM water.

Every now and then it sheds an eddie that spins off in the opposite direction of the current flow and goes towards Texas or Louisiana.

You can read about the loop current here
http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1175%2F1520-0485(1999)029%3C1180:LCEPIT%3E2.0.CO%3B2&ct=1&SESSID=3104b4c832f8bed86fde1d682ff65206

What happens when an eddie occurs during hurricane season and a storm passes right over the eddie is that the extremely warm waters are like a supercharger for the 'cane. From Wikipedia:
An example of how deep warm water, including the Loop Current, can allow a hurricane to strengthen, if other conditions are also favorable, is Hurricane Camille, which made landfall on the Mississippi Gulf Coast in August of 1969. Camille formed in the deep warm waters of the Caribbean, which enabled it to rapidly intensify into a Category 3 hurricane in one day. It rounded the western tip of Cuba, and its path took it directly over the Loop Current, all the way north towards the coast, during which time the rapid intensification continued. Camille became a Category 5 hurricane, with an intensity rarely seen, and extremely high winds that were maintained until landfall (190 mph / 305 km/h sustained winds were estimated to have occurred in a very small area to the right of the eye).
You can read more at wikipedia and see how the eddie, or the loop current itself, strengthened Katrina, Rita, Wilma, Andrew and Opal. Loop Current - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If Gustav comes up the Yucatan Channel he will be riding the Loop Current and growing. If he continues toward Texas and Louisiana, he will encounter at least the eddie that was spun off in July, and he may also encounter an older one closer to the Texas coast.

My uncle rode Camille out about 30 miles north of the coast in Mississippi. He was a Civil Defense official and when we moved there the next year he took us on a tour and told us stories. This was a guy who fought his way out of the Chosin Reservoir, and I still remember what he said about Camille: "I'll never stay again for a storm that big."

I left for Rita - along with a couple of million other people. That's an experience I don't want to duplicate, and if I leave for another storm in the future it will be with a great deal of hesitation. But two things influenced that decision. I went to the New Orleans area a few days after Katrina and helped out some hard-pressed police, and I had access to the damage estimates that were being projected for my suburb that was, at one point, right in the path of Rita when she was a 5. I'm fairly certain my house wouldn't stand up very well to a 140 MPH wind. Rita was more intense than Katrina, and had gusts of almost 240 MPH. Luckily for a lot of people she turned toward a less inhabited area and weakened down to a 3. Even then she caused $11 billion in damage.

I've worked outside in a direct hit category 3 before. That was interesting but not too scary. If I didn't have to be outside I would definitely stay indoors. But a Cat 5 coming right at me gets my respect.

I got stuck in a gas line a few weeks ago when some little hurricane was wandering around offshore (Dolly?). The only reason I was there was because I was on "E". I had a good laugh at all the people freaking out at the last minute, Dolly didn't concern me at all. But Gustav has my attention - he has potential.
 
I agree with you on respecting the hurricanes. I start respecting when they hit three. Anything less than that is not much more than a big thunder storm.

As for the temps in the Gulf if you look at the temps during the summer of 2005, IIRC, they were in the low 90's now they're in the mid 80's that is a big difference. Even if the storms ride the eddies the overall warmth of the water will not allow for a huge Cat 4 or 5 storm to develop.
 
One of my favorite books was Isaac's Storm, by Eric Larsen. It is a fascinating account of the devastating Galveston hurricane and the earliest efforts of our nation's meteorologists and hurricane forecasters. A memorable tale, and one I hope is not repeated with Gustav.

Like Lazy, I do not fear so much for the first place it is forecast at 5 days, but the place that is forecast at 2-3 days.
 
Oh Yeah - but what does the Slosh model say - go on 3 like before Katrina?

Or does nobody talk about the computer slosh model anymore?

:rolleyes: :D Even though the tornado siren sounds like it's in my living room when it goes off - we've only been to the basement once in going on 3 yrs up here.

6-7 evacuations as in leave town and 2 behind the levee hurricane parties in 30 yrs when I lived in New Orleans.

heh heh heh -It was last yrs ice storm(4 days no power) that sent my frozen tush visit Blondie in Alabama. :cool:
 
Back
Top Bottom