Hurricane "Ian" may be heading for us here in Florida

[simple girl]

Glad to hear that the SW Florida crew are safe and mostly undamaged. I live in Naples, about a half mile from the gulf. We got two feet of water on the ground floor. I am in a second floor unit, so only my garage, storage area, and hallway took on water. My car, however sat in salt water for an indeterminate amount of time and now we can't even let me open the doors (its in something called "Safety Mode").

I was in Portugal while all this was happening. My homewatch person is also the on site manager at a nearby property - note to self, when a natural disaster happens, he won't have time to deal with me. Luckily, a friend went over and checked on my place, sent pictures and arranged to have the affected drywall cut out. I feel sad for people in the ground floor units; I have gotten calls from a couple asking if they can rent my condo until theirs is repaired.

Insurance has been responsive - they are sending adjusters from all over the country. I have been assigned to someone in Pennsylvania for my flood insurance claim, he is driving down and expects to arrive on Sunday. Car insurance has told me to tow my car to the dealer. The dealer is closed until further notice and tow trucks are busy clearing cars and debris from major roadways. It's going to sit in place for quite some time.

Power came on briefly yesterday, then went out again. They are saying October 9, but it may be earlier. The next question is when to go back - I have an apartment in Lisbon and can stay away as long as needed. I will be play it by ear.

Be safe out there.

Wow. You certainly have so much on your plate!!!! I'm so sorry for all you are having to deal with. Glad at least your second floor was spared. Thinking of you, what an ordeal!

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

Hi all. I'm back online and just did a quick skim of this thread. My cousin in Ft Myers got about 30-35" of storm surge in his house (first time it's flooded) and both personal vehicles lost. His work truck was also flooded but it looks like it will be salvaged so he can hopefully get back to work in a few weeks. I went down Sunday after the flooding on I-75 subsided to help as I could and bring supplies they needed (mostly bags and boxes to move the salvageable stuff). I slept on an air mattress at his sister's home with A/C and water and who's septic was working and spent two days helping to pack up and clear out items that can be saved. I would not wish a flood on anyone! Just awful and the news doesn't share the smells of rotten seawater flooded fridges and sewage back ups... it's not just mud! I'm glad I was able to help some but felt pretty impotent too -they have a long road to go. Fortunately, his sister who does homewatching as part of her business had a generous client who has allowed them use of their condo for the rest of October while they try to get their feet back under them. The news shows the big eye-catching destruction but there are thousands suffering in a less spectacular way.



Lagniappe, sorry to hear of your damage but happy that you are on the 2nd floor. Best of luck dealing with your damages. Probably best to stay away a bit longer from what I saw this week; I helped my cousin "break" into a few ground floor units she couldn't open on her own (that she homewatches for) that had flooded and they are bad. Those that were elevated, other than the garages, were unscathed. Many areas have no/limited water and sewage due to lift stations being out in addition to power -confirm the sewer is working before you return!


Keeping all those impacted in my thoughts.

 

[Rianne]

Who will rebuild? Who can afford to rebuild? The insurance industry must be in shambles. I cannot imagine the lawsuits that are coming.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/01/hurricane-ian-will-financially-ruin-homeowners-00059615

 

[Car-Guy]

Who will rebuild? Who can afford to rebuild? The insurance industry must be in shambles. I cannot imagine the lawsuits that are coming.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/01/hurricane-ian-will-financially-ruin-homeowners-00059615

It's bad enough to pay high premiums for years and years and then have to fight with an insurance company to cover a loss. Or worse, have your insurance company go broke when an event like this happens and they can't pay. Will the government bail them out so they can payoff claims?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

It's bad enough to pay high premiums for years and years and then have to fight with an insurance company to cover a loss. Or worse, have your insurance company go broke when an event like this happens and they can't pay. Will the government bail them out so they can payoff claims?

Insurance in Florida has been a mess for years and Ian sure hasn't helped anything. I don't know how the losses will be covered without a good bit of government intervention/assistance. Oh, and future premiums? I can only imagine what they might be.

My DW is in the R/E rental business and has been tapped to help out with the SW Florida market right now...it's absolute madness as you might expect. There are a lot of folks looking for rentals and because of logistical issues (no power, gas issues, agents/managers/other employees dealing with their own damages/etc) it's proving very difficult to get folks into the rentals.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

For those whose homes were flooded there is also mold to contend with, as reported yesterday in the New York Times. Many reports of looting as well.

 

[Gumby]

Insurance in Florida has been a mess for years and Ian sure hasn't helped anything. I don't know how the losses will be covered without a good bit of government intervention/assistance. Oh, and future premiums? I can only imagine what they might be.
...

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone. Up here in my town, a bunch of houses that were built right down on the beach were wiped out in Hurricane Sandy. There was plenty of government assistance and now the beach is filled with bigger, more expensive homes just waiting for the next hurricane, when their owners will undoubtedly seek more government assistance.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone. Up here in my town, a bunch of houses that were built right down on the beach were wiped out in Hurricane Sandy. There was plenty of government assistance and now the beach is filled with bigger, more expensive homes just waiting for the next hurricane.

I do like your suggestion, but it probably won't happen.

 

[Car-Guy]

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone.

Good luck with that. But still it's a good idea.

 

[Ronstar]

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone. Up here in my town, a bunch of houses that were built right down on the beach were wiped out in Hurricane Sandy. There was plenty of government assistance and now the beach is filled with bigger, more expensive homes just waiting for the next hurricane, when their owners will undoubtedly seek more government assistance.

Our area had several houses demolished by a tornado years ago. Several older homes along a river in flood plain. I don’t know what if any govt assistance they received, but they were not allowed to rebuild in the flood plain.

Local building departments are very strict in adhering to FEMA regulations when it comes to building in or near flood areas. I heard that FEMA cuts funding to local governmental agencies that don’t follow FEMA building requirements.

 

[JoeWras]

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone. Up here in my town, a bunch of houses that were built right down on the beach were wiped out in Hurricane Sandy. There was plenty of government assistance and now the beach is filled with bigger, more expensive homes just waiting for the next hurricane, when their owners will undoubtedly seek more government assistance.

I'm currently out in the field doing disaster relief and this exact topic and sentiment came up at dinner tonight.

We're working on uninsured homes damaged by storms years ago. Sometimes it feels like we are just putting our fingers in the cracks of the dike.

The madness of building in vulnerable zones has to stop.

We may caravan to FL in a few weeks. But still so much to do here.

 

[audreyh1]

JoeWras thank you for your service!!!

 

[2HOTinPHX]

I'm currently out in the field doing disaster relief and this exact topic and sentiment came up at dinner tonight.

We're working on uninsured homes damaged by storms years ago. Sometimes it feels like we are just putting our fingers in the cracks of the dike.

The madness of building in vulnerable zones has to stop.

We may caravan to FL in a few weeks. But still so much to do here.

John Oliver had a good video on this subject few years back.

 

[harllee]

I'm currently out in the field doing disaster relief and this exact topic and sentiment came up at dinner tonight.

We're working on uninsured homes damaged by storms years ago. Sometimes it feels like we are just putting our fingers in the cracks of the dike.

The madness of building in vulnerable zones has to stop.

We may caravan to FL in a few weeks. But still so much to do here.

Joe, thanks for what you do, I have always been impressed by the work you do. Totally agree with you about building in vulnerable areas. Here in NC people build on the Outer Banks where there never should have been houses. Millions are spent replenishing the beaches. A waste of money. Nature is taking those areas back and there is nothing that can be done.

 

[pugmom]

Please explain

Private insurers can do as they please, but I would suggest that receipt of government assistance be conditioned on moving out of the danger zone. Up here in my town, a bunch of houses that were built right down on the beach were wiped out in Hurricane Sandy. There was plenty of government assistance and now the beach is filled with bigger, more expensive homes just waiting for the next hurricane, when their owners will undoubtedly seek more government assistance.

It is common to hear people say this, but the news always reports that these hurricane systems are 300 miles wide. Are you suggesting that no coastal areas should be allowed to be built on? Cities like Orlando were also flooded, and have had hurricane damage. Should people be allowed to live anywhere in Florida? Or the entire east coast?

 

[harllee]

It is common to hear people say this, but the news always reports that these hurricane systems are 300 miles wide. Are you suggesting that no coastal areas should be allowed to be built on? Cities like Orlando were also flooded, and have had hurricane damage. Should people be allowed to live anywhere in Florida? Or the entire east coast?

My opinion--people should not be allowed to live on barrier islands nor in flood zones that keep flooding over and over.

 

[Gumby]

My opinion--people should not be allowed to live on barrier islands nor in flood zones that keep flooding over and over.

I would say that you can live anywhere you like, but if you want to live in a place that routinely and predictably floods, why should taxpayers be forced to help you pay for that choice?

 

[Aerides]

I would say that you can live anywhere you like, but if you want to live in a place that routinely and predictably floods, why should taxpayers be forced to help you pay for that choice?

It would be a difficult effort to determine this for the entire coastal US. It would also render most of these homes uninsurable, immediately, and decimate values, resulting in a mass exodus of millions who now can't afford to move. And force businesses to shut. Even if you rolled it in over say 10 years, the impacts would be immediate.

It's easy to think of rich mansions and the like, but I see plenty of old original homes that would be included. Barrier islands like...Miami Beach? The Florida Keys? Do that all around the country and you'd have chaos.

Or if you said no one within 1/4 mile of the coast, millions more. There's no easy answer.

 

[Gumby]

If the system were that you get one hand out from the government, but then you have to move, I think that would mitigate the effect on current home values. If you want to stay, rely on your own insurance and don't take the government's money. In economic terms, this is properly internalizing the externalities so that the price will be correct.

 

[Lewis Clark]

My opinion--people should not be allowed to live on barrier islands nor in flood zones that keep flooding over and over.

Taking this thought further, should people be allowed to live in areas prone to earthquakes or other natural disasters?

Millions of people live in these areas now. Some are densely populated urban areas. Should they all be relocated?

These are difficult issues with no easy answers.

 

[harllee]

Taking this thought further, should people be allowed to live in areas prone to earthquakes or other natural disasters?

Millions of people live in these areas now. Some are densely populated urban areas. Should they all be relocated?

These are difficult issues with no easy answers.

If people are relying on government handouts to rebuild, my opinion is you get one rebuild paid by the government and no more.

 

[Gumby]

The question is not should you be allowed to live there. The question is who should pay. With private insurance, your premiums generally reflect the relative risk. I know. I live on the coast and my insurance premiums are high as a consequence. Governmental largesse is just that - you are getting assistance unrelated to the amount you paid in and those who live in lower risk areas are forced to subsidize your life choices. I don't think that is good economics because it leads to misallocation of resources when externalities are not accounted for. Nor do I think it's fair.

 

[pugmom]

one more thing

Taking this thought further, should people be allowed to live in areas prone to earthquakes or other natural disasters?

Millions of people live in these areas now. Some are densely populated urban areas. Should they all be relocated?

These are difficult issues with no easy answers.

We used to live in New Hampshire well inland. Hurricane Gloria in 1985 caused a lot of damage. There is literally no place that could not experience some type of natural disasters... should all building in "tornado alley" be banned?

FWIW, we are self-insured.

 

[Aerides]

But if we target floods/hurricanes, then do we also include Fires (much of CA), Tornado Alley (the midwest) - and whatever other repeat-disaster-prone areas there are?

I can see the benefits of "one more and that's it" and the stupidity of rebuilding right on the beach, don't get me wrong it's just throwing money away. But the effects would be bigger than just FEMA savings. Mortgage risk insurance underwriting would be thrown off completely, the land gets a zero value - in most of these places the land is worth more than the building. And it would have a ripple effect over "safe" areas too - because we all know that once you have an inch carved out, won't take long before it's a mile. "just the beachfront and barriers" becomes 1Mile inland over the next decade. At least that's what enough people start to think.

For example, the ocean side deep-water-access residential areas of the intracoastal in SE Florida are mostly crowded with mansions built on 1/4 acre plots; they were nicer 3 bed SFH when first build decades ago. Some original homes remain, but they sell for ~$5M, which is purely the land value and they'll be knocked down for new builds. Then someone spends $1m to build a mansion on it. Does "new FEMA" hand them $1m and say find a new place? or the whole $6m?

These areas are also packed tight with condos....and besides Andrew haven't seen a storm surge in more than 50 years.

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

Not to get political (insurance shouldn't be and certainly shouldn't be partisan so hopefully this post flies), State Senator Jeff Brandes has been ringing the warning bell in Tallahassee for a long time. I only mention him because he's done some good interviews recently on various news stations talking about the issues (litigation and assignment of benefits by and large) that really drive the costs up in our state that might be worth looking up if you are impacted/interested. At some point we'll hit a breaking point and the legislature will have to finally act and ignore the interests fighting needed reform.


He feels that the pool is there to cover Ian is there but to expect 30-40% increases next year.... Yikes.