Happily Single ER thread

[exnavynuke]

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

Well, when I see "single" I generally assume that means "not currently in a relationship". Others may assume the same and just avoid the thread completely, and not realize it's for anyone not married.

Personally, I've never been married and don't have any desire to be married. As for having a relationship (serious or otherwise), I'm ambivalent on the subject. I've been in serious relationships and I've been in casual relationships. I've enjoyed both and I've enjoyed not being in a relationship at all. I'm better at being in a relationship that "finding" a relationship. Like some others, I am quite picky about my relationships and that seriously limits my prospects for a relationship. What I've found over the years from my time being "not in a relationship" is that I can enjoy my life just as well with that status as I do in a relationship.

There are obviously trade-offs between the two. For instance, the vacation industry is set-up assuming you will be with someone else, so going alone can be more costly per-person. Many places are set-up for you to enjoy being there with someone else and it can be quite boring by yourself (I love all-inclusive resorts on the beach, but most of the activities cater to couples doing things, not bringing strangers together). However, going to the right places can be great for making new friends and having new experiences that can be amazing.

That's just one example, but I've found that for every downside to being single, there is generally a corresponding upside - for those willing to see it. The flip-side is that the opposite is also true - the downsides of being in a relationship have corresponding upsides. I've realized that I can be happy in either relationship state.

 

[RunningBum]

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

Maybe many of us singles are too busy having fun to post about it!

 

[Dawg52]

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

Single my entire life. I could never find that 25y/o with a mult-million dollar portfolio. I'll continue suffering through life as a single.....

 

[Which Roger]

My preferences, in order:
1. Being married to the right person
2. Being single
3. Being married to the wrong person

 

[JustCurious]

I think it's important not to confuse "single" as meaning living as a monk in isolation. You can be single and have long term relationships. Or short term relationships. Or lots of friends. Single just means not being married. It doesn't mean you aren't in relationships.

The word "single" can have different meanings, the only commonly accepted meaning is "unmarried," but there are a number of different ways to be unmarried...someone can be unmarried and not dating anyone and not in any form of dating or romantic relationship. It can mean unmarried but going on ocassional dates but not in a serious or committed relationship. It can mean unmarried but dating someone casually but not in a committed relationship. It can mean unmarried but dating someone in a long term committed relationship.

I think the context matters quite a bit. If you personally know someone and you know they are not married, and they know that you know they are not married, and they say "I am single", they are really saying "I am not dating or seeing anyone right now" since there is no confusion about their marital status. I have had conversations with people who I know are unmarried and I ask if they are seeing anyone, and they respond "No, I'm single right now." However, if you don't know someone or you do not know if they are married and they say "I am single" they may be conveying the message that they are not married and nothing more than that, or they could be saying that they are not seeing or dating anyone, it is ambiguous and I think clarification would be needed to know if they are seeing or dating someone.

 

[ER Eddie]

Well, when I see "single" I generally assume that means "not currently in a relationship". Others may assume the same and just avoid the thread completely, and not realize it's for anyone not married.

That's true. Maybe I should've titled the thread "happily unmarried" or "umarried and happy." There can be misunderstandings about what "single" means. I meant it in the sense of the marital status checkboxes you would fill out on forms. I didn't mean "happy to not be in a relationship," which may be how some people are reading it. I also probably contributed to that misunderstanding with my long list of "pros," some of which apply only to people who are not in a long-term relationship (e.g., sexual variety, no one to have to explain yourself to, etc.).

That's just one example, but I've found that for every downside to being single, there is generally a corresponding upside - for those willing to see it. The flip-side is that the opposite is also true - the downsides of being in a relationship have corresponding upsides. I've realized that I can be happy in either relationship state.

That's true, there are downsides and upsides to both.

I can't claim to be capable of being happy in either relationship state, because I've tried both, and I'm definitely happier not being married. I was married for a while, and I called it quits, because it just didn't fit me. I had the very distinct sense that I was living someone else's life, not my own.

I'm still interested in relationships, but I have no interest in getting married. It just doesn't fit me, and it's too risky, financially.

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

I think I'm partly responsible for that, because of the way I titled the thread and explicated the OP. The way I did it, it probably came across as, "How many people are happy to not be in a relationship?" which of course isn't going to get a very enthusiastic response. What I intended was, "How many people are happily unmarried?" My bad. I didn't think through all the different interpretations of "single."

 

[razztazz]

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

It's sparse because the larger population is married or considers themselves married. It's not like it's 50/50 and one group likes to be public about it and the other doesn't.

I don't see any evidence the people commenting don't like being single. Less "grousing" about being single even from those who admit they'd like to find Mr/Mrs Right than the grousing I usually hear from marrieds.

When I was younger I used to think, like everyone else, I was actually looking for my Other. After a while I realized I wasn't. If I was sufficiently lonely, or empty, or afraid of what's in my own head, or wanting to start a family, or had a actually found a Mrs Right, or any of the other reasons people get married..... like anything else I wanted, I'd have done it. I stopped lying to myself. Whatever it was I had/have, I didn't want it to change.

I just went through this with an old GF from the 1980's. Closest I ever got to getting married. I thought ya know it might just work this time. We're older. No kids/ careers/other baggage or moving parts. Like the James Bond movie. We've got all the time in the world. But apparently we wanted different things and had different expectations. When it was over I was not angry or sad. I felt relieved. Perhaps a bit wistful, especially with this Lady, but relieved just the same. Same feeling I had always gotten no matter how ended.

I don't see what other people see in it. It's entirely too much work and requires too many demands just to have a warm body around. It's suppose to be easy and make everything else easy. I see those claiming to be happily married. I know their lives. Been around it my whole life. If that is what makes them happy I am sure It would not make me happy.

 

[Mmm Rrr]

I've been married, I've been in a long term relationship. I've now been single for about 15 years and am happy with the situation. Friends want to fix me up, men at my local pub ask me out - most people don't seem to understand that though I do want and need a lot of people in my life, I happy to not be in a romantic relationship.

I love not needing to consult with someone else about the big and little decisions about life. I live mine exactly the way I want to. I have an adult son whom I adore, several nieces and nephews, and plenty of friends.

The one down side I have found is that I haven't found a great travel companion to replace the long term BF. Most of my friends don't have the time and resources to travel that I do. But that isn't enough for me to want to take on full time partner!

 

[Chuckanut]

I suspect the single thread is sparser than the married thread because overall it is harder for a single person to FIRE than a couple. Single folks can't share the cost of many things from heating the house to cable bills.

OTOH, I bet if we had a Happily Childless for Life thread, we would find many of them FIRE'd a lot earlier than we parents did.

I am single though not through choice. My observation is that it's harder to re-marry above 50 for three reasons:

1. Combining two families can be a huge source of stress and disagreement. Start with the ex-spouse and then the variety of children people have.

2. Combining finances can be a huge source of stress and disagreement and is often the cause of problems in #1 above. If one has children the entire inheritance situation can come into play in awkward ways.

3. Many people (and I am looking mostly at women here) simply don't want to remarry. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. They want a partner, a lover, a travel companion, somebody to help and be helped by in times of need, and even a housemate. But, marriage? No Way.

 

[scrabbler1]

I suspect the single thread is sparser than the married thread because overall it is harder for a single person to FIRE than a couple. Single folks can't share the cost of many things from heating the house to cable bills.

Not sure I agree. You are assuming that each person in a couple is contributing income to the household to pay the expenses. If one partner is still working, or has a decent amount of passive or investment income, then fine. But one person can't easily provide income to pay for the expenses of 2 people even if per capita it is less than just for one person.

It would be much tougher for me to be ERed if I also had to pay for my ladyfriend's expenses, even if we shared a somewhat larger living space.

OTOH, I bet if we had a Happily Childless for Life thread, we would find many of them FIRE'd a lot earlier than we parents did.

Agreed.

I am single though not through choice. My observation is that it's harder to re-marry above 50 for three reasons:

1. Combining two families can be a huge source of stress and disagreement. Start with the ex-spouse and then the variety of children people have.

2. Combining finances can be a huge source of stress and disagreement and is often the cause of problems in #1 above. If one has children the entire inheritance situation can come into play in awkward ways.

3. Many people (and I am looking mostly at women here) simply don't want to remarry. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. They want a partner, a lover, a travel companion, somebody to help and be helped by in times of need, and even a housemate. But, marriage? No Way.

Wouldn't a good pre-nup take care of much of the financial entanglements? Even so, I'm not sure I want my financial assets mixing with my ladyfriend's liabilities, even though they are relatively small compared to my portfolio. IOW I could make her debts disappear with 2 checks and it would barely be a blip on my radar (2% of my total NW).

 

[JustCurious]

3. Many people (and I am looking mostly at women here) simply don't want to remarry. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. They want a partner, a lover, a travel companion, somebody to help and be helped by in times of need, and even a housemate. But, marriage? No Way.

Do you think that is more common among women than men over 50? If so, what is the basis of that conclusion?

 

[exnavynuke]

Not sure I agree. You are assuming that each person in a couple is contributing income to the household to pay the expenses. If one partner is still working, or has a decent amount of passive or investment income, then fine. But one person can't easily provide income to pay for the expenses of 2 people even if per capita it is less than just for one person.

It would be much tougher for me to be ERed if I also had to pay for my ladyfriend's expenses, even if we shared a somewhat larger living space.

Well, generally (though not always) FIRE in a marriage applies to both parties. It's unusual for one to be financially independent and the other destitute and stuck working for the rest of their lives. I think households have the "easiest" time reaching FIRE in the following order (assuming the same "top" income for each):

1. DINK - similar salaries.
2a. DINK - dissimilar salaries
2b. Single
3. SINK
4. DI w/kids - similar salaries
5. DI w/kids - dissimilar salaries
6. SI couple w/kids
7. SI w/kids.

 

[Chuckanut]

Not sure I agree. You are assuming that each person in a couple is contributing income to the household to pay the expenses. If one partner is still working, or has a decent amount of passive or investment income, then fine. But one person can't easily provide income to pay for the expenses of 2 people even if per capita it is less than just for one person.

It would be much tougher for me to be ERed if I also had to pay for my ladyfriend's expenses, even if we shared a somewhat larger living space.



Agreed.



Wouldn't a good pre-nup take care of much of the financial entanglements? Even so, I'm not sure I want my financial assets mixing with my ladyfriend's liabilities, even though they are relatively small compared to my portfolio. IOW I could make her debts disappear with 2 checks and it would barely be a blip on my radar (2% of my total NW).

You make some very good points. Thanks.

 

[ER Eddie]

I suspect the single thread is sparser than the married thread because overall it is harder for a single person to FIRE than a couple. Single folks can't share the cost of many things from heating the house to cable bills.

No, I don't think so. I think it's much easier to become financially independent if you're single. Especially if you're a relatively non-materialistic guy, expenses can be radically lower without a spouse. Most women (not all) value nice houses, nice cars, keeping up with the Joneses, social appearance, etc. -- all of which really drives up expenses. I know plenty of men who do not care all that much about big houses, nice cars, fancy furnishings, etc., but who pay for them because that's what their wives want. And women typically bring in less money than men do, sometimes nothing at all (if they're at home taking care of kids).

Second, if you're single, you have complete control of where your money goes -- how much is spent, on what, and where it gets invested. If you're married, you don't have that control. This will vary depending on the marriage, but it's not at all uncommon for a spouse to buy things that you think are not worth spending money on. So, less savings, and more delayed retirement.

It's an easy call from my own experience. When I was married, savings was accumulating at a snail's pace, and I would've been lucky to pay our house off in 15 years. Single, I paid my house off in 3 years, and I've now got over a million bucks in the bank, all set for retirement. There is no way I would have been there, had I been married.

Not to mention, if you're married and looking at ER, you've got to consider the possibility of divorce. Maybe it won't happen, but it happens all the time, and if it does, you are going to lose at least half your net worth, if not more. Plenty of men get absolutely crushed in divorce, especially if kids and alimony are involved. If you're single, there is a zero percent chance of any of that happening.

3. Many people (and I am looking mostly at women here) simply don't want to remarry. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. They want a partner, a lover, a travel companion, somebody to help and be helped by in times of need, and even a housemate. But, marriage? No Way.

That's cool, that's how I feel, too. Unfortunately, the majority of the women in my area are traditional, conservative Christians, and so they tend to be aiming for marriage (or maybe that's my paranoia, lol).

Btw, the social trends are in the opposite direction. It is women who are more interested in marriage, and men increasingly less interested.

Wouldn't a good pre-nup take care of much of the financial entanglements?

Pre-nups are often thrown out or whittled down so much by lawyers and courts that you're left with only a small fig leaf of protection. Don't rely on pre-nups.

OTOH, I bet if we had a Happily Childless for Life thread, we would find many of them FIRE'd a lot earlier than we parents did.

Yeah. I heard it costs about 300K to raise a kid to 18, and that's probably an underestimate. And it doesn't include college expenses.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

My uncle was single his whole life. Worked the graveyard shift as an industrial electrician for a now-defunct manufacturing megacorp. After he retired, he became a snowbird and had one GF up north and one down south.

While he didn't smoke or drink to excess, I think he lived on a typical "bachelor diet." About the time he turned 70, he had a mild to moderate stroke. A couple heart attacks over the next few years, and he was significantly impaired. I was with him in the ICU when he passed away at age 74.

Statistically, single men tend to live shorter lives than those with a life partner. Having lived the single life myself into my 30s, I suspect some of the bachelor habits I discarded when I got married were a product of male impulsiveness and ultimately unhealthy. I truly believe women as a group tend to live healthier lifestyles than men and often drag their beloveds, kicking and screaming, in that direction.

As for single women, I don't know why you would put up with us. Live long and prosper.

 

[haha]

Many people (and I am looking mostly at women here) simply don't want to remarry. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. They want a partner, a lover, a travel companion, somebody to help and be helped by in times of need, and even a housemate. But, marriage? No Way.

This is my viewpoint also. I don't even understand the motivation for a man to remarry. After my divorce I was going to a therapist. I told her that I had enjoyed being married, but definitely not the divorce. I liked having children, and of course I did not get divorced from them. I like women, but I don't like the back-loaded aspect of relationships with women that involve the state. Or the tension over possible money issues if a relationship becomes more trouble than it is worth for either party. In my state one should really be sure that he understands the relevant law, regarding marriage, palimony or whatever divorce lawyers can manage to get adopted.

She said no reason for you to ever get married, and that was good enough for me. No way do I want to be without women, either singular of plural, depending on conditions and preferences of anybody involved. I was happy married, I was happy dating, and I am happy with a girlfriend to whom I remain faithful and I assume that she does also. We have no plans to live together, though this would be cheaper. Cheap isn't everything!

It is easy to like women, but no need to go overboard.

 

[haha]

Pre-nups are often thrown out or whittled down so much by lawyers and courts that you're left with only a small fig leaf of protection. Don't rely on pre-nups.

Being single and not cohabiting is the best prenup available so far.

Ha

 

[Pellice]

This happily single thread is pretty sparse. From what I can tell from the responses so far not many people are enamored with the single life not even the single themselves.

OK, this comment brought me out - I guess I fear sounding critical of relationships and children, so it seems safer not to say anything, but I am single, single all my life, no kids. And I like it! And I don't feel selfish, but better able to be useful and positive for the planet.

And I like the spontaneity, and the responsibility for only my own emotional state - and especially the ability to take that responsibility and run with it! I like the practical too - I can make a casserole and eat it for 5 days. Or pea soup for 7! I never have to nag anyone or hear someone else's criticisms.

And I don't have to worry constantly about children and grandchildren the way my peers do. I don't envy them.

 

[Chuckanut]

I’ve noticed that opposite sex couples more often than not have the female far ahead of the male when hiking. My buddy who is in pretty good shape says his gf is often 40 feet or more out ahead on a trail. No wonder they don’t want to marry slow poke.

 

[travelover]

I’ve noticed that opposite sex couples more often than not have the female far ahead of the male when hiking. My buddy who is in pretty good shape says his gf is often 40 feet or more out ahead on a trail.

That's just a bridge safety check maneuver.

 

[Nemo2]

I’ve noticed that opposite sex couples more often than not have the female far ahead of the male when hiking. My buddy who is in pretty good shape says his gf is often 40 feet or more out ahead on a trail.

Bears?

 

[aja8888]

Bears?

Rattlesnakes.

 

[RunningBum]

Rattlesnakes.

First person wakes them up. Second person gets hit. That's in the rules of trail running. Don't be first (bears), second (rattlers), or last (cougars).

 

[daylatedollarshort]

First person wakes them up. Second person gets hit.

That actually happened to me. DH and DS were ahead of me on a trail and woke up a baby rattle snake. It tried to strike at me but luckily it wasn't long enough to reach me.

 

[ER Eddie]

Obviously it's an individual thing, but statistically, on average, single people are just as happy as married people.* I find that somewhat validating of my individual experience, especially when the culture and media keeps telling us that if you're not married, you're missing out on happiness. I understand there are social, religious, and biological reasons to want to believe that to be true, but it's not.

*e.g., https://blogs.psychcentral.com/sing...ting-married-will-make-you-happier-read-this/