Have you ever heard of the "infinite banking" concept?

[CitricAcid]

I am a good detective, it was so hard to tell that he was a salesman/spammer... I could do this for a living!

 

[spideyrdpd]

Back when we had a discussion on infinite banking you could google Nash and get the complete book that he had written. The book was for insurance salespeople. It does get you thinking, bout how much money we spend over the years in interest payments.
Of course it then gets you thinking of the time value of money. Is it better to spend a dollar today or to pay off debts with deflated dollars.
At any rate the insurance part is a bad deal. Since as mentioned the first yrs payments mostly go to pay the sales commision.

 

[dclewis]

Maybe I am asking for it....but I've been reading this and other similar threads about the IBC.

I am a financial adviser who uses Infinite Banking and teaches it to other individuals and businesses. Some of what is being said here is half-true, but a bit misleading.

Maybe I should ask...are there any specific questions?

No flaming please.

 

[dclewis]

Well, this seminar sounds like a wonderful opportunity to slake your thirst for knowledge. You'll have to let us know what you learn. I doubt that we can help you with that from here because the organization probably thinks we aren't smart enough to understand its brilliant financial maneuvers without a seminar.

It makes me wonder why they need to flog free seminars instead of just quietly making their own gazillions and retiring, but I've met entrepreneurial benefactors before who "just want to give back to the people."

Probably the biggest thing an adviser or insurance agent has to contend with is the weird fact that people want to work with successful advisers, but they also don't want to pay them anything for it and they expect them to give away the best investment and financial planning advice in the world.

Financial planning is a process, but it also requires an education. The knowledge is what you are paying for, and that is what the financial professional is in the business of providing. They are supposed to make money by educating you and/or selling products that they've taught you how to use to help you meet your financial goals.

There is no free lunch. You can't get "the best" advice for free on the internet. I've seen/read a lot of forums where people have allegedly figured out a way to "do it yourself", and it's clear they just haven't done enough reading or paid for the top notch advice they need.

You will pay $2,500-$5,000 for mediocre advice. They will take your money and get paid either commissions on the resulting product sales or ongoing advisory fees that may end up being about 1/2 of the interest you earn over your investment lifetime. That is the reality of the industry. I know a few peers who make a good living doing exactly that.

If you are not an accredited investor, there are some things that you just can't be exposed to - by law.

...Then you have some professionals that are willing to give you a good education and help you to help yourself. They also want to be compensated for their services.

Maybe people could test the "personal banking" concept by borrowing from their 401(k)s and charging themselves 110% interest. Their money would double every year. They'll be rich!!

Are you serious? The point of IBC is to become responsible for yourself in terms of financial planning. Most people are happy to give their money to a mutual fund company and expect them to make them rich while they don't do any (or very little) work themselves in terms of understanding 1) how the industry is set up and 2) how to invest in stocks. Yet, if you ask these same people if they believe in get-rich-quick schemes, they say "no". If you ask them if they believe in getting rich without doing any (or very little) work, they also say "no". Go figure.

If you aren't making money with your IB, then your adviser doesn't know what he's doing (or he is taking advantage of you).

 

[Texas Proud]

Maybe I am asking for it....but I've been reading this and other similar threads about the IBC.

I am a financial adviser who uses Infinite Banking and teaches it to other individuals and businesses. Some of what is being said here is half-true, but a bit misleading.

Maybe I should ask...are there any specific questions?

No flaming please.

I hope you have a flame retardent suit.... because you will need it is you think that almost anybody on this board needs some advice from you... most are very successful and 'rich'... and do not have financial advisors... in fact, a few here ARE financial advisors but are not here to sell 'snake oil'...

IIRC, I asked a few questions in this thread that were never answered by the previous spammer.... why don't you give it a shot and let's see what you come up with....

But, if you keep trying to sell something... you will be gone by month end...

 

[Khan]

I

am a financial adviser who uses Infinite Banking and teaches it to other individuals and businesses. Some of what is being said here is half-true, but a bit misleading.

Maybe I should ask...are there any specific questions?

Does your job largely consist of doing internet searches for 'infinite banking' and swooping in to enlighten the heathen?

Probably the biggest thing an adviser or insurance agent has to contend with is the weird fact that people want to work with successful advisers, but they also don't want to pay them anything for it and they expect them to give away the best investment and financial planning advice in the world.

As they used to say: "Boy did you get a wrong number."

 

[dclewis]

I hope you have a flame retardent suit.... because you will need it is you think that almost anybody on this board needs some advice from you... most are very successful and 'rich'... and do not have financial advisors... in fact, a few here ARE financial advisors but are not here to sell 'snake oil'...

IIRC, I asked a few questions in this thread that were never answered by the previous spammer.... why don't you give it a shot and let's see what you come up with....

But, if you keep trying to sell something... you will be gone by month end...

First of all, I'm not here to sell you anything. Not sure where you got that idea from. Maybe you're naturally defensive? Hope that works out for you.

Second, I guess you'll have to enlighten me on the "snake oil" part of your statement.

Third, what do you consider "rich"?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Post a photo of your yacht and airplane and I'm all ears.

Better still, post some photos of your customers yachts and airplanes. Since they're getting the best investment and financial planning advice in the world they've gotta all have at least one of each, right?

 

[dclewis]

I

Does your job largely consist of doing internet searches for 'infinite banking' and swooping in to enlighten the heathen?

No. I read a lot. Perhaps there is something I should know about the folks that frequent this board? Is everyone bloodthirsty?

As they used to say: "Boy did you get a wrong number."

Maybe for you. My experience is that there are a fair number of folks that think they can get something for nothing.

 

[Marquette]

Maybe for you. My experience is that there are a fair number of folks that think they can get something for nothing.

The mantra of the board is there's no free lunch... followed closely by annuities are bad, FA's are bad, and you can do it yourself. The last three aren't shared by everyone and most of us even like some FA's as long as their moderators and some of us own annuities.

Most people are more interested in getting their asset allocation right and shaving a tenth of a percent off of their expense fees. And enough people come through trying to sell stuff that there's a bit of a hesitency when someone does come through claiming to not want to sell anything.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Take a stab at answering TexasProud's questions, that would be a good start.

 

[Westernskies]

The only BAD (and I mean really BAD) financial investment I ever made was a "flexible whole life insurance policy " I got into on advice of an "Estate and Financial Planner" affiliated with Lamar Life about 10 years ago. They were subsequently purchased by Conseco, and in the changeover, Conseco conveniently quit taking my direct deposit premiums on the policy, which I had authorized when the policy was opened and never changed. After several missed payments (I was in the midst of a divorce, commuting between the US and Europe on business, and wasn't paying close enough attention to what I thought was automated banking- and I never received an overdue premium notice from them...) they declared the policy in default and informed me that I had forfeited the "guaranteed cash value" and the insurance coverage.. Their customer service was disgraceful;it was obvious to me they had deliberately defaulted the policy and raided the cash value. Cost me several thousand bucks, so I am absolutely gun-shy about any kind of "insurance" with prefixes of any kind. NEVER AGAIN !

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

annuities are bad, FA's are bad

If I may, I think the mantra is that bad annuities sold to people for whom they are inappropriate are bad and bad financial advisors who charge people too much for substandard advice that is primarily targeted to make more money for the FA and not the client are bad.

The thing is, so many of both are pretty bad that it does tend to get perceived as a generalization.

 

[Marquette]

I just shortened your version, but yours is more accurate.

Me, I love annuities, if someone else is buying them.

 

[dclewis]

Post a photo of your yacht and airplane and I'm all ears.

Better still, post some photos of your customers yachts and airplanes. Since they're getting the best investment and financial planning advice in the world they've gotta all have at least one of each, right?

Is this what you call "making an impression"?

This reminds me of a conversation I had with an individual the other day. He ask me for testimonials. I used to give them out quite frequently. But I noticed something funny about the whole process. You should too being that you are all so smart and sophisticated in this forum.

Long ago it dawned on me that testimonials are garbage. If an idea is valid, it doesn't matter what other people think about it. You see, there are alot of folks out in the world who get suckered into buying crap because "10,000 frenchmen can't be wrong", but I suspect that there is no one that dimwitted here.

I could give out the names of 20 people that are happy with the work I've done. Meanwhile, there could be 100 individuals who think I'm a scam artist. A business never gives out people who are unsatisfied with their work.

I could post a picture of anything I've purchased, or anything a client of mine has bought. You wouldn't know whether I used IBC to do any of this or not. And my saying so isn't going to be a confidence booster, and I know that. That's why I'm not going to try to insult your intelligence with such a dog and pony show.

Seriously though, most of the blogs, forums, etc. that I've seen discussing the topic are filled with individuals that either 1) aren't doing it or 2) haven't read the book and are commenting on whether or not they think it's a "scam".

I thought that there were legitimate questions being asked. Maybe I was wrong. It doesn't matter much to me.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well there you are and the hard part this dclewis fellow will have is convincing financially savvy people that non core insurance products are valuable.

Certainly where there is good chance of a loss as in a car accident, potential for major unrecoverable losses as in a house fire, or where you have dependents that would suffer greatly due to your demise an insurance product makes sense.

When it comes to a product that the company is counting on taking more money from you than paying you back, on the average, and the likelihood of the holder gaining a probable benefit is low...then its a tough row to hoe for a salesman unless they find an unsophisticated buyer who weighs emotion higher than the numbers.

The insurance companies dont have those big buildings downtown full of expensive furniture for nothing ya know...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

You should too being that you are all so smart and sophisticated in this forum.

Uh oh, I sense a MMND implosion is imminent.

 

[dclewis]

The only BAD (and I mean really BAD) financial investment I ever made was a "flexible whole life insurance policy " I got into on advice of an "Estate and Financial Planner" affiliated with Lamar Life about 10 years ago. They were subsequently purchased by Conseco, and in the changeover, Conseco conveniently quit taking my direct deposit premiums on the policy, which I had authorized when the policy was opened and never changed. After several missed payments (I was in the midst of a divorce, commuting between the US and Europe on business, and wasn't paying close enough attention to what I thought was automated banking- and I never received an overdue premium notice from them...) they declared the policy in default and informed me that I had forfeited the "guaranteed cash value" and the insurance coverage.. Their customer service was disgraceful;it was obvious to me they had deliberately defaulted the policy and raided the cash value. Cost me several thousand bucks, so I am absolutely gun-shy about any kind of "insurance" with prefixes of any kind. NEVER AGAIN !

I'm really sorry that you had such a bad experience. I can understand that something like that probably does leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's too bad your adviser never checked the company's comdex score and didn't steer you away from that company.

As a general rule whole life is not "flexible" in terms of premium payments, never has been, probably never will be. It's just not designed that way.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Again, dclewis, you could do well to answer TexasProud's questions instead of starting fights, or you could just take this nonsense somewhere else.

 

[dclewis]

The mantra of the board is there's no free lunch... followed closely by annuities are bad, FA's are bad, and you can do it yourself. The last three aren't shared by everyone and most of us even like some FA's as long as their moderators and some of us own annuities.

Most people are more interested in getting their asset allocation right and shaving a tenth of a percent off of their expense fees. And enough people come through trying to sell stuff that there's a bit of a hesitency when someone does come through claiming to not want to sell anything.

I understand. The industry has a bad rep. Some of my close and personal friends and family are "do it yourself-ers". The biggest frustration is seeing them make errors in judgment over tax issues, mortgage planning, investing, etc.

Too much time spend chasing the highest investment return, not enough time spent on efficiency-planning, etc.

 

[dclewis]

Well there you are and the hard part this dclewis fellow will have is convincing financially savvy people that non core insurance products are valuable.

Certainly where there is good chance of a loss as in a car accident, potential for major unrecoverable losses as in a house fire, or where you have dependents that would suffer greatly due to your demise an insurance product makes sense.

When it comes to a product that the company is counting on taking more money from you than paying you back, on the average, and the likelihood of the holder gaining a probable benefit is low...then its a tough row to hoe for a salesman unless they find an unsophisticated buyer who weighs emotion higher than the numbers.

The insurance companies dont have those big buildings downtown full of expensive furniture for nothing ya know...

I've never had a client lose money with me that did exactly what I told them to do. In fact, they always make more money than me on the financial products I sell. Which is fine, as long as I have the opp to be referred to their friends and fam.

 

[dclewis]

I hope you have a flame retardent suit.... because you will need it is you think that almost anybody on this board needs some advice from you... most are very successful and 'rich'... and do not have financial advisors... in fact, a few here ARE financial advisors but are not here to sell 'snake oil'...

IIRC, I asked a few questions in this thread that were never answered by the previous spammer.... why don't you give it a shot and let's see what you come up with....

But, if you keep trying to sell something... you will be gone by month end...

Sure. Be happy to. This is the beginning of the thread?

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/have-you-ever-heard-infinite-banking-concept-27184.html

Where are the questions?

 

[Texas Proud]

Uh oh, I sense a MMND implosion is imminent.

ROFLMAO..... He will not get this, but it is funny.... thanks CFB...

 

[dclewis]

Again, dclewis, you could do well to answer TexasProud's questions instead of starting fights, or you could just take this nonsense somewhere else.

What nonsense? I see what I think is the beginning of the thread, and I see no Q's, just a reference to another thread.

Secondly, I didn't start any "fights". I didn't threaten anyone in my first post, nor did I insult anyone.

I was told to have a "flame retardant suit". I guess that's a nice way of telling me to "put 'em up".

You were saying?

 

[ERD50]

Again, dclewis, you could do well to answer TexasProud's questions instead of starting fights, or you could just take this nonsense somewhere else.

Where are TexasProud's questions? I think they must be in a separate thread - I don't see them here. Can someone point to that thread?

I've got my comfy chair, popcorn, and adult beverage, so I'm interested in seeing this thing get started.

Some of my close and personal friends and family are "do it yourself-ers". The biggest frustration is seeing them make errors in judgment over tax issues, mortgage planning, investing, etc.

Too much time spend chasing the highest investment return, ...

Look around the forum, you won't see too much chasing of high returns. If anything, you will see ridicule of that approach. Mostly boring, old, (rich) , index investors here.

-ERD50