Inheritance means test by relatives.

[thefed]

OP- how long since you've talked to dad?

 

[SVHoper]

Jayc,

I'm sorry for the hurt you feel for yourself and more importantly for your son. (I have experienced this hurt on a much, more minor scale where we "received much less babysitting help than other family members", which I thought was unfair). Other posters have made a number of good contributions for you to consider.

However, I thought it may help you to consider a possible motivation from your Dad's point of view... Perhaps he really enjoys the company of nieces and family regularly visiting horses, he talks to them a lot about their lives and he simply wants to help where he sees an opportunity (doesn't have to be a rational definition of need).

On a separate note I prefer my kids not to receive large gifts early in their working lives (from grandparents or us)... until they really understand how to support themselves and live below their earned means.

Wish you well in your relationship with your Dad as it seems this is the most important thing over which you have almost total control.

 

[jayc]

OP- how long since you've talked to dad?

7 months. Thanks everyone for the frank comments, advice, and guidance about possible solutions. I was venting and this is the first and last time I have told this story to anyone.

The help for my son was hypothetical. I had asked why niece2 needed her housing subsidized and was poking holes in his reasons. Niece2’s boyfriend was still married to someone else at this time. They also said they felt sorry for his 6 yr old DD. I just said that if that is the criteria then why you were not concerned about my boy.

My dad gets a pension of $900/month and SS for both parents. This is money inherited from my grandparents. I think it was a case of my dad being an easy touch. Niece1 took advantage of this and now Niece2 saw her chance at the trough. My sons hold no ill will and are in contact with my parents. When I tried to get details of this latest event, I got none of your business. I guess if they had answered with ‘Your boys are next when the time comes’, I would have understood a little. I think it may also be a case of the bee closest to the hive gets the honey.

Niece2’s mom works in HR and I asked if this is the advice she gives people retiring (liquidate assets to help people capable of helping themselves). The answer was: Niece1 did it. I am now estranged from all and will probably continue on this course.

 

[RunningBum]

If you and your family really aren't in need at all, then it is up to your dad whether or not he wants to split his money evenly, or give to those in need. It is a shame when you sacrifice so as not to be needy while others don't and get bailed out. If that's all it was than I'd say "Get over it", but if he's really told you that you and yours aren't getting any help at all, then I understand your position.

Does you dad understand that this is the reason why you are estranged? Since he views the whole situation very differently he may not understand how much this is driving a wedge between you, even though you think he must. Which means he has no idea how to resolve the situation between you. If he knew, maybe he'd look once again and understand how unfair it is from your eyes and agree to change.

 

[chris2008]

I am an only child without kids but this is what I see from my neutral perspective in other families (incl. DH's):

Most parents do not treat their kids or grandchildren equal.
They argue about different treatments either by pointing out that one is more needy than the other (often forgetting that needyness might have some reasons and that in some cases they have enabled the needy) or by referring to different life situations (they see one kid more often than the other, thus feel more taken care of by it than by others and want to reward this benefit).
Never ever have I seen a parent realizing that their differentiations were unfair to one of their kids or grandchildren. They always have lots of arguments why they treat their kids fair and equal.

Parents have the right to make their own choices with their own money. On the other hand I think that kids have the right to let their parents know when they see "unfair treatment". They just have to be aware that the parent will not appreciate to be seen as unfair....

 

[FUEGO]

It would irk me too, but I don't know if I would actively cut off relationships with parents or parents in laws that basically pissed away their money (my inheritance! ).

My parents will probably split the money down the middle, because they are frugal and respect that quality in me and my sibling. I know this from talking to my mother who made a smallish 4 figure loan to my brother (as did I) when he was out of work for a while a few years ago and was facing foreclosure on his house. She basically said "WTF? How can he be so irresponsible to not have saved anything to cover contingencies like this?". He had a few young children at the time, and I'm sure the assistance given was mostly concerned with the kids having a roof over their head.

My in-laws are stranger creatures at times. For years, they spent a significant portion of their income on one child (the baby), paying for his car insurance, health insurance, college and books, car payment etc. While he basically piddled his time away partying and living the high life of an unemployed part time community college student (living on his parent's dime).

In the meantime, DW was truly on her own, struggling to pay her way through 4 year university while working all she can and driving the old family beater (if it was available). Fast forward 10 years later, and DW's parents are near destitute and are barely scraping by. Guess who's DW doesn't feel particularly generous to her spendthrift parents? I won't get into how DW's parents life savings were further wasted in the last year (see my "My reason for urgently needing a HELOC" thread for more detail than you want).

Needless to say, DW feels like jayc - ie - the wasteful spendthrifts have received all the wealth transfer from her parents, and the responsible sibling gets nothing because she doesn't need it.

But DW has the added issue (which jayc may face one day in the future) of parents needing more money to live a nicer lifestyle than merely eking by on SS (in a few years) and living in poverty. DW and I still maintain relationships with all the people in her family , because at the end of the day, the trivial (for us) money issues are a small aspect of family relations and don't take away the joy of the family relationships.

But we are certainly planning on concealing (the best we can) our FIRE plans and wealth from the in-laws. Mostly because I think if the truth came out, it would sadly ruin some relationships or cause some resentment and very frequent "well why can't you help out some" requests. It would be impossible to explain that if we "helped out" with a majority of requests, we would have to maintain full time jobs. For the sake of others.

 

[thefed]

My only suggestion is this: please reconsider cutting off ties. My wifes father just passed and there is nothing worse than seeing her go thru this. They had a good relationship, but nonetheless, it's tough.

Yes, it seems lousy of him to do that. Oh well. Life isn't fair, and apparently neither are parents. You'll surely miss him when he's gone, so spend some time with him now

 

[haha]

All the people who think unfairness should not bother the person being discriminated against might enjoy a perusal of the Old Testament. Almost any book will find you a good example of social wisdom on this topic that hasn't been neutered by modern US bs. A favorite of mine is the story of Joseph (the favored son whose father gave him a coat of many colors). When his brothers saw Joseph's coat, they grabbed him, beat him up and threw him into a pit and left him to die. Later they encountered a slave trader who was willing to buy Joseph, so his brothers fetched him out of the pit and sold him. This is how the Israelites got to Egypt.

If you like more modern, "scientific" information, read Chapter 2, Fairness, in Animal Spirits by Akerloff and Shiller. A large experimental literature exists showing that people will actually hurt their rational position, in order to punish people who are perceived as not playing fair. This is quite a bit less compelling than the Old Testament, but may appeal more to those who are not Old Testament fans

Ha

 

[chris2008]

Well, if you go to the bible do not forget the story of the prodigal son.
But that son asked for forgiveness before he was welcomed back.
And there is also a jealous brother in it.

 

[obgyn65]

+1

Tough as it is to comprehend the decision to use 1/3 of savings for this arrangement, "let it go" as gracefully as possible.

 

[rescueme]

I'm glad I did not have this problem ..

My parents divorced after 25+ years. Both were remarried after a time.

Any $$$ they might have had went to their respective "new" families (nope, I have nothing to do with either, and it had nothing to do with $$$).

Dosen't matter anyway. They are both gone, and I made my own way in the world without their support (financial or emotional).

Just a different POV and to point out (for some), nothing is better than fighting over "something" ...

 

[ronocnikral]

i face the opposite. BIL is very good at coaxing FIL into giving him things. For instance, a year ago I fetched the mail and there was a letter from the in laws. Turns out it wasn't a letter, it was just check for $600. DW called MIL to ask what was going on. Turns out BIL had convinced them to buy him a snowblower, which triggered a snowblower for the SIL and the cash equivalent for us since we live in houston and there is very little need for any snow removal devices. The latest is BIL has convinced the in laws to buy a new car and give the old one to him. SIL got the truck and since we live a ways away, we again get cash. We try to tell FIL that we don't need the money, but refusing just pisses him off. I believe we are also battling with BIL acquiring the piano as well (no one likes my idea of cutting it into thirds).

It's uber frustrating, as we don't need the money and since the VA apparently spits in the face of those who serve their country (FIL spent 30+ years in the marine reserves and suffers from a spinal cord injury), I would rather have FIL keep the money so he can continue to go to therapy. I think the approach I am going to take this next visit is to start to get heirlooms out of the deal. Tell them to keep the money and/or further fund our nieces and nephews 529's and give us some of the heirloom things we want (DW's great grandpa helped settle parts of southern utah/new mexico and the in laws have some cool native american "acquisitions" from great grandpa's time down there).

just another point of view. i think the BIL feels we should thank him for "getting" us all this stuff. but the sentiment is just the opposite. we take pride in not being dependent on our parents, but to be fair, those who aren't given anything only have that pride.

 

[rescueme]

...since the VA apparently spits in the face of those who serve their country (FIL spent 30+ years in the marine reserves and suffers from a spinal cord injury).

Interesting comment.

I'm a disabled vet (service connected) and do get services from the local VA clinic, I'm just wondering what is the story (you can PM me if you don't want to discuss on-line)...

 

[Sarah in SC]

Ha's comments on the Old Testament are very thought-provoking. I feel I have a low tolerance for unfairness, brought about by the dissimilar treatment in my own family.

What parents don't realize about this kind of thing is the seeds of hate it sows between the kids. We may suck it up and try to keep the relationship patched up with the old folks, but once they are gone, our over-supplied with everything siblings can rot. Speaking for myself, anyway.

 

[Retire2013]

My former MIL had 7 children and 11 grandkids. She was totally and OPENLY impartial in the way she treated her kids and grand kids. She "helped" some with expensive private school tuition (over $30K per year for 16 years) while would not give another son/daughter and/or grandkid a piece of cheese literally (true story!). One grandkid gave up smoking received $500 reward while another gave up smoking over the same time span received nothing, not even praise. Both grandkids were high school seniors and neither had parents nor who had any differences in income levels, etc. So her criteria for helping or giving one more than the other was not "need-based." We and our daughter expected nothing. And NOTHING was what we received so we were at peace with ourselves but I know that my ex-husband did feel neglected and hurt from the lack of love and attention from his mother. The children and grandchildren who received "things" also received more love and attention as well. It's never "just" money. If one did not receive help of the material kind, one often ALSO did not receive encouragement, emotional support, or affection either---and that is why it really matters for parents to strive to be as "fair" in their dealing with their kids and grandkids as possible. Lest I not be able to live up to this ideal of fairness myself, I chose to have only ONE child. Jayc, I commiserate with you but have no advice to offer you.

 

[Redbugdave]

Jay...I also have experienced same kind of thing in my family as you have. You are not alone. You have a right to feel the way you do. All I can say is try not to brood over it too much and get on with life. I know it hurts. I would just keep my distance. As I have said in another thread, (very much like this one on these forums), no sense hanging around where you are not wanted. Life is just too short. Surround yourself and family with friends who really do care.

And it's a comfort to know that all those nieces, boyfriends and kids will be around to support the old guy when his health fails...

 

[MichaelB]

Ha's comments on the Old Testament are very thought-provoking. I feel I have a low tolerance for unfairness, brought about by the dissimilar treatment in my own family.

What parents don't realize about this kind of thing is the seeds of hate it sows between the kids. We may suck it up and try to keep the relationship patched up with the old folks, but once they are gone, our over-supplied with everything siblings can rot. Speaking for myself, anyway.

My experience with unfairness within families is that it has much deeper roots than money, and financial matters allow other issues to be expressed more easily. The intensity rises when it comes to financial things because they represent proof or validation of these other feelings. I also think that in some cases “fairness” is not possible simple because some participants refuse to acknowledge it and will always reframe or reinterpret any situation to suit their version of the facts.

My mother has seen this for most of her life, even among “nice families” and people of limited means. And her children, which concerns her.

I cannot control how others in my family deal with this, but I can control – somewhat - how I react to them. It’s hard at times but I try to stay above it. With my own children, however, I try to keep in mind Mr. Ha’s message that fairness is important.

 

[kcowan]

I just hope that everyone here understands that money should not impact relationships. Once the parents are gone, there is nothing left by memories. Many seniors believe that the needy should receive and the strong should help themselves.

 

[Redbugdave]

Just an observation Keith...but aren't those seniors continuing to reward the always needy for their bad behavior?

 

[haha]

In my situation, I am concerned about treating the grandkids fairly. One has cerebral palsy and I've already set up a trust for him, so the inequality has already begun. The other two are too young to discuss it with yet. I'm not sure how to handle it given that I'm more concerned about the one with special needs than the other two, at least in terms of providing for his physical needs. DW, a retired special ed teacher, also spends more time with him as she tutors him 4 days per week and acts as his advocate with the public school system. I'm sure the other two notice that. It's not an easy problem to deal with.

I think this may go much more easily than you expect. My BIL, whom I really like and respect, is from a large family, as I remember 5 boys and 2 girls, with one Down's son, B. Mom and Dad clearly had to put B's needs ahead of the other kids, at least in terms of time and physical care, and also had to enlist the sibs in B's care. Mom and Dad are gone now, and B lives with my BIL (who is essentially permanently separated from my sis) and one other brother. B is 52 now, and gets a lot of very personal care, plus a lot of love from BIL, the other brother, and all the sibs who live elsewhere around the city. Plus all their kids are very close to B, and very nice to him. B doesn't see very well, but he sure knows which women he likes, and wants his hugs and kisses whenever any of them are around.

As best I can see, there is no resentment, no thought even of finding an institutional setting for B. Incidentally, B has kept a job for over 20 years. He got some training and is a sorter at Goodwill or something similar. I have never seen a prouder guy off to work in the morning!

This is quite different medically from your situation, but I think suggests that a problem is not baked in the cake in a handicap scenario.

Ha

 

[Orchidflower]

How about looking at life this way: It isn't the problem that's the problem. It's your view of the problem that's the problem.

 

[LARS]

In my situation, I am concerned about treating the grandkids fairly. One has cerebral palsy and I've already set up a trust for him, so the inequality has already begun as I don't have enough money to set aside a meaningful amount for him and match it for the other two. The other two are too young to discuss it with yet. I'm not sure how to handle it given that I'm more concerned about the one with special needs than the other two, at least in terms of providing for his physical needs. DW, a retired special ed teacher, also spends more time with him as she tutors him 4 days per week and acts as his advocate with the public school system. I'm sure the other two notice that. It's not an easy problem to deal with.

Sorry to be blunt, but if your grand kids (or their parents) can't understand a trust for a child with cerebral palsy than screw 'um. Quite frankly if this becomes the case, someone really screwed up in the raising of the so called "aggrieved" party.

 

[LARS]

Perhaps in your rush to be "blunt," you misread at what point on life's timeline my dilema resides. My son is grateful (almost to a fault) for the arrangements I've made. The other two grandkids are too young to know. My concern, after following this thread for days, is that some time in the future there will be hard feelings.

The overwhelming feeling expressed in this thread seems to be that unequal distribution of wealth means grandpa is a mean, controlling old tyrant bent on destroying the family. But perhaps you're correct, if the other interested parties can't understand (as in many of the examples in the posts above) just screw 'um.

Perhaps in your haste you misread my comment. I said "if" this becomes a problem...

 

[ProspectiveBum]

I've chronicled my own dysfunctional family a bit on this site. This thread makes me happy that none of my kin have any money to fight over. I don't *think* I'd give a hoot about it if they did, but who knows?

Here's a thought for the OP to ponder: DW and I each have a parent who fully supports one of our adult siblings (my Dad supports my sister, and DW's Mom supports DW's sister). We're both concerned about this arrangement, because our parents have limited means, and certainly don't need to be supporting able-bodied, intelligent adults who don't choose to work. In both cases, the sibs are held back by emotional problems for which the parent feels responsible. My Dad doesn't even like talking about the arrangement, perhaps because in his mind it highlights some sort of "failure" on his part. DW's Mom has essentially said that this is true for her.

I have no idea if this dynamic could be happening in the OP's family, but if so, it might frame the situation a little differently, at least in terms of your Dad's motivations. It might also explain the cold response you got when you pressed the topic (very few people want to sit and examine something they feel guilty about).

 

[Khan]

I've chronicled my own dysfunctional family a bit on this site. This thread makes me happy that none of my kin have any money to fight over. I don't *think* I'd give a hoot about it if they did, but who knows?

Here's a thought for the OP to ponder: DW and I each have a parent who fully supports one of our adult siblings (my Dad supports my sister, and DW's Mom supports DW's sister). We're both concerned about this arrangement, because our parents have limited means, and certainly don't need to be supporting able-bodied, intelligent adults who don't choose to work. In both cases, the sibs are held back by emotional problems for which the parent feels responsible. My Dad doesn't even like talking about the arrangement, perhaps because in his mind it highlights some sort of "failure" on his part. DW's Mom has essentially said that this is true for her.

I have no idea if this dynamic could be happening in the OP's family, but if so, it might frame the situation a little differently, at least in terms of your Dad's motivations. It might also explain the cold response you got when you pressed the topic (very few people want to sit and examine something they feel guilty about).

Be aware of the possibility that after your parents die, said siblings will come sniffing around you.