Internet Problem

Yes, you are correct ping talks to the ICMP layer, don't bother to decipher the code. It's a sample tcp/ip application that talks to the next layer. There's no ping, just calls an implementation of sockets apis.

But I still think were on the same path, don't think various different apps having connection errors is in the application layer, IMHO it must be lower.

Could be many things but if I were diagnosing my own machine I'd start with pings to the different dns servers as suggested. You obviously know the toolsets to go down to the next lower levels, they're not for most people to interpret. Sorry for any miscommunication.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app
 
Well you guys lost me. Probably my fault for not sustaining attention. :)

If I see say, 40 successive pings that return "Request timed out", is that not likely evidence of an intermittent with my data coming into the cable modem? I would think that the occasional singular instance would be questionable but many successive ones?

When I divide the wall time of several hours by the packets sent, that comes to about 1 reply per second. Hence my conclusion that the pings were 1 second each.

Caveat: I am not and have never been a network savy guy. Just a frustrated web user trying to get a simple picture of the problem.
 
Lsbcal said:
Well you guys lost me. Probably my fault for not sustaining attention. :)

If I see say, 40 successive pings that return "Request timed out", is that not likely evidence of an intermittent with my data coming into the cable modem? I would think that the occasional singular instance would be questionable but many successive ones?

When I divide the wall time of several hours by the packets sent, that comes to about 1 reply per second. Hence my conclusion that the pings were 1 second each.

Caveat: I am not and have never been a network savy guy. Just a frustrated web user trying to get a simple picture of the problem.
Click to expand...
Probably rates its own thread, as the situation is different than Al's (I think).

It's very difficult to understand the complete picture for many of these kinds of posts. To understand more, and not ask a dozen questions, it helps to know the network a little bit. For instance, I remember having router(s) that had problems with DNS, dropped the connection periodically, etc. If I asked "what is causing my problem?" and let others know it was a particular router and firmware, some would rightfully point out that the problem can be fixed with firmware update.

The simple picture you need is a combination of the TCP/IP graphic, a depiction of your network, and how it connects to the Internet. As an example, here is a simplified text outline of my LAN:

Service Provider: Comcrap
- Type (Speed) of Service: Xfinity Performance Internet
- Cable Modem: Arris Interactive, L.L.C. wbm760a

Routers & Switches
Netgear N600 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Router WNDR3700
- Firmware version: V1.0.1.14
- 192.168.1.1
- Basement
- Ethernet CAT5 to CM
2G Channel 11 / 5G Channel 48

Netgear 54 Mbps Wireless Router model WGR614v7
- Firmware v: V2.0.20_1.0.20NA
- 192.168.1.10
- 2nd Floor
- Ethernet CAT5 to 192.168.1.1
- 2G Channel 1

Dell PowerConnect 2214 Switch
- 1st Floor Office
- Ethernet CAT5 to 192.168.1.1

Dell XPS 8700
- 1st Floor Office
- 192.168.1.115
- Ethernet CAT5 to 2214
- Windows 7 Pro

Dell Dimension 3100
- 1st Floor Office
- 192.168.1.108
- Ethernet CAT5 to 2214
- Windows XP Pro

Dell Dimension 4600
- 1st Floor Office
- 192.168.1.118
- Ethernet CAT5 to 2214
- Ubuntu 14.04 LTS LXDE Lubuntu

HP Pavilion Notebook DV7
- 1st Floor Living Room
- 192.168.1.111
- Wireless 5G (192.168.1.1)
- Windows 7 Pro

Apple Macbook
- 2ndFloor Bedroom
- 192.168.1.111
- Wireless 2G (192.168.1.10)

The devil is in the details. You could mention Windows Vista, and that brings up a different context.

About 40 succesive PINGs failing. Do you mean it was working, then failed 40x, then started working again?
 
Target2019 I agree it's tough to diagnose one issue in a thread let alone several, while guessing as to the implementation details.


Lsbcal ping's output shows how long a successful exchange of data occurred, ping waits a second between attempts so wall clock kind of relates to the number pings not the response time. Is post #34 an example of what your seeing when you say 40 consecutive times?
 
MRG said:
Target2019 I agree it's tough to diagnose one issue in a thread let alone several, while guessing as to the implementation details.


Lsbcal ping's output shows how long a successful exchange of data occurred, ping waits a second between attempts so wall clock kind of relates to the number pings not the response time. Is post #34 an example of what your seeing when you say 40 consecutive times?
Click to expand...
Yes, the 40 consecutive "Request timed out" were on 40 consecutive lines in the ping results file I showed above. Sometimes there might be 50 consecutive lines, nothing special about the exact count. There are very occasional single line events also and I've assumed these might be something not to be concerned about.

What I thought I had was a simple way to show how often and how serious the "Internet disconnected" note comes up on one's computer. I'm only guessing that it tells one the cable modem input signal's integrity and not the exact network reason for the problem.

Since my internet connection has been pretty stable recently, I've not been able to see an "Internet disconnected" note come up while I'm sitting at my computer. If this happend then I could look at the ping file results at the same time in order to check they are the manifestation of the problem. Perhaps someone like TromboneAl will be able to see such an event.
 
Last edited:
TromboneAl said:
This one:

Amazon.com: Netgear WGR614 Wireless-G Router: Electronics

Wow, I've had that since 2005. Time flies.

I read a web page that suggested that if your wifi speed is lower than your direct connect speed, you should upgrade to a newer router.
Click to expand...

There is a v after the model, and the number after that is important. Some versions were pretty bad.
If you look for newer firmware, you could get lucky and find that it fixes some issues.
But it is very old. Just a matter of time before a component fails.
 
Have you swapped out the cable from your computer to the router? Perhaps your NIC (network interface card) in your computer is showing its age. Always start with the physical aspects when troubleshooting connectivity problems. I didn't read all of this thread, so if the physical aspects has been exhausted I apologize.
 
Today I installed this:

41cNHRaRtFL.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087NZ31S/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and my download speed immediately went from 20Mbps to 31.9 Mbps.

The setup process with that thing is indeed as simple as they advertise it to be.

I'll let you know in a few days whether that solves the intermittent problems.
 
Last edited:
TromboneAl said:
Today I installed this:


Amazon.com: Securifi Almond - (3 Minute Setup) Touchscreen Wireless Router / Range Extender: Computers & Accessories

and my download speed immediately went from 20Mbps to 31.9 Mbps.

The setup process with that thing is indeed as simple as they advertise it to be.

I'll let you know in a few days whether that solves the intermittent problems.
Click to expand...

I'm curious if that would be the case for a true side-by-side test result. Speeds can vary from moment to moment.

I was under the impression that just about any router could keep up with those speeds, but I'm not certain. I have the same router as your old one, but my ISP is maxed at ~ 6 Mbps. I have not seen any noticeable difference going direct, versus wi-fi at those speeds.

At any rate, it's interesting to see touch screens are coming down to lower level products like this. The technology is pretty amazing.

-ERD50
 
Lsbcal said:
Just curious if you could notice that kind of change in your browser page loads?
Click to expand...

No, I don't notice any difference, but it's hard to tell.
 
ERD50 said:
I'm curious if that would be the case for a true side-by-side test result. Speeds can vary from moment to moment.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think that would explain it. I never saw a speed test result about 20 Mbps with the old router. I did a test just before installing the new one, 20, and after 30.
 
I'm still having flakiness. Perhaps this result will help someone figure out what the problem is.

I get a slow ping result, turn WiFi off then on again (at arrow), and I get a better ping result. Like this:

F4kEIXL.png


The result is reproducible.

What does that suggest?
 
If you look at the post I made some days ago, all my ping results are much faster -- typically 17ms or so and clustered pretty tightly. Maybe there is a simple explanation. Does your ISP offer tech support that could explain this sort of thing? Worth a call?
 
TromboneAl said:
I'm still having flakiness. Perhaps this result will help someone figure out what the problem is.

I get a slow ping result, turn WiFi off then on again (at arrow), and I get a better ping result. Like this:

pix clipped

The result is reproducible.

What does that suggest?
Click to expand...
Is this ping test coming from a computer that is plugged into the router?

The pings are very long. As a comparison, my pings to 8.8.8.8 are less than 50ms. I am not continuously pinging like that, just a set of 3 pings as from the ping command.

It tells me that something beyond the router is the problem. It could be cable to modem, your modem, the cabling to the splitter, the cabling to the street, and so on.

I think you said a neighbor has same problem? The level of service to your neighborhood could be the problem.
 
Often the pings are much faster, around 20ms.

When I reset things, it looks like they are fast and then gradually slow down:

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1180ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1164ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1190ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1200ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1215ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1234ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1310ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=584ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=399ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=453ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=446ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=483ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=462ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=498ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=503ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=530ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=529ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=550ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=565ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=561ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=618ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=613ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=598ms TTL=58
 
TromboneAl, can you ping the DNS server connected via wired ethernet for comparison (or did I miss that in a previous post)?

When I ping 8.8.8.8 from a wired computer, I get a reply time of about 21 ms. When I use a wireless computer, I get a reply time of about 22-23 ms.

I would reboot your router and modem, then test using wired and wireless connections, with the same computer. I would also perform a ping test connected directly to the modem. If you don't have a computer that is safe to connect directly, you could use a linux live cd/usb image to perform the ping test. That way you'll have enough information to verify if the problem is your's or your ISP's, and will be able to get past the ISP tech support flow chart.

UPDATE: Oops, you're typing faster than I am.
 
Last edited:
Your pings are terrible, looks worse than dialup.

mentioned way back to run tracert and look the at latency on the hops to see if the delay can be identified
 
Lsbcal said:
If you look at the post I made some days ago, all my ping results are much faster -- typically 17ms or so and clustered pretty tightly. Maybe there is a simple explanation. Does your ISP offer tech support that could explain this sort of thing? Worth a call?
Click to expand...

+1. Even on my relatively slow connection (6Mbps is about max), my pings to 8.8.8.8 are 12-16 mSec range (and this is with the same model as your old router).

Seeing pings around 1 second would be painful, and your 'better' pings are still awful.

OK, I just saw your follow-up post- those are AWFUL!!! Only the couple that are in the 20mSec range are OK.

Go back to the earlier posts and check the pings through each part of the system. If you can show your ISP you have consistently good pings within your network, and AWFUL pings outside, they need to fix it.

I just ran mine:

PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=15.5 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=47 time=16.2 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=47 time=15.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=4 ttl=47 time=13.9 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=5 ttl=47 time=14.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=6 ttl=47 time=14.2 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=7 ttl=47 time=25.5 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=8 ttl=47 time=15.0 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=9 ttl=47 time=12.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=10 ttl=47 time=16.6 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=11 ttl=47 time=17.3 ms


See? Very consistent in the 12-17mSec range, only one 'outlier' at 25msec, which is barely worse than your infrequent 'bests'.


-ERD50
 
An example:

Code: 
C:\Users\Admin>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  [192.168.1.1]

results 2 - 5 here

  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *       36 ms    17 ms  ae-4-90.ear2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.200]

  8    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  Google-level3-30GB.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.70.
54]
  9    15 ms    25 ms    16 ms  209.85.244.153
 10    13 ms    13 ms    15 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.
Where you see *, it does not usually mean a problem, just that the device at that hop is not accepting pings.
 
TromboneAl said:
When I reset things, it looks like they are fast and then gradually slow down:

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
...
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1310ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
... Reply from 10.10.10.103: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=165ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=584ms TTL=58
Request timed out.
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=58
Click to expand...

OK, this looks a LOT like traffic shaping, possibly in the Internet Service Provider's router.

They are seeing repeated low level ICMP/IP packets to the same address, and are quite likely to be determining that it's a repeated ping. The traffic shaping system drops the priority of the ping traffic to reduce the load on their peer point gateway, the place where your pings and most other traffic on their network cross over to 'backbone' networks of the Internet.

When there is a break in the ping traffic you are generating, the shaping filter ages out it's memory of your traffic state, and you initially get unthrottled traffic again when you restart the pings.

Just for fun, try pinging a machine within your own ISP's network such as their client web server. They might not be using traffic shaping between their own subnets.
 
Interesting idea, M, but if that were true, then if I just stopped pinging for a few seconds, then started again, the ping time would drop, right? That doesn't happen.

Here's the trace:

C:\Windows\system32>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms almond.ralinktech.com [10.10.10.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 1120 ms 1134 ms 1145 ms 173-219-226-68-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.
226.68]
4 1163 ms 1183 ms 1061 ms 173-219-251-216-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219
.251.216]
5 161 ms 167 ms 166 ms 173-219-235-8-link.sta.suddenlink.net [173.219.2
35.8]
6 1174 ms 1185 ms 1048 ms eqixsj-google-gige.google.com [206.223.116.21]
7 1221 ms 1204 ms 1240 ms 209.85.253.219
8 1248 ms 940 ms 246 ms google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>
 
I get the same thing when wired, but check this out. This happens consistently: Times around 1000 wireless, plug in, times around 1000, unplug, times go down to 20 or so (where they should be) and stay low:

Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=944ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=938ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=941ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=951ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=966ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=986ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=986ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=991ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1009ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1022ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1008ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1034ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1050ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1044ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1070ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1083ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1100ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1116ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1135ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1104ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1120ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1130ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=833ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=426ms TTL=58
Request timed out. ***THIS IS WHERE I UNPLUG***
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=58
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=58
 
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