The internet is reversing significantly

It is a complex subject, but some of my "quick" views:

  • The internet infrastructure - the highway - is great. I was fortunate to have seen the structure being built. Over the course of my career, I was fortunate to work on many of the technologies - sometimes very early in their lives - that are part of the infrastructure.
  • It is what rides along the infrastructure - the content - that is a mixed bag. I would include technologies that ride on the infrastructure that allow activities (I am talking beyond ads) to be monetized. Like anything humans create, it is useful, but it is misused due to human nature.When you monetize activities, your goal is figuring out how to increase those activities. No much different than the drug pushers in my youthful neighborhood figuring out how to get users hooked so that they have more customers.
  • You can tell these days how much companies that profit off the internet care about their customers based on (a) how easy it is to reach a real human being to address and issue, and (b) how easy it is to cancel their service and permanently remove your information.
  • I have always viewed the internet as tool to make my "real life" more efficient and more productive. The danger I see is when one makes "internet life" their "real life".
  • Search engines themselves have their bias. Use the same search term (particularly a "controversial one") on different search engines and you will get different results. I find the more specific one's search phrase is, the better chances to find what you really want. The less specific, the more likely your may come across things that are hard to unsee.
  • It is said that alcohol makes one more impulsive and less inhibited. The anonymity, as well as the ability to easily be "fake" on the internet takes that to an even higher level.
  • The fact that internet addiction is a real thing in these days is one example of regression. Sadly, it impacts children the most. If the internet existed when I was young, I would be in trouble. The big warning I tell you people is "no matter what anyone says, anything you put on the internet is forever". I think people views on the internet are influenced on whether or not they have raised children.
  • Internet content has made it much easier to scare people.
  • One of the humorous sayings I once heard was "the internet allowed crazy people to find others just like them, so everyone thinks they are the normal ones". I believe there is some truth to that :).
 
I do appreciate YouTube for its videos, especially the sports related ones.
 
target2019 said:
The internet continues to evolve.

One who groks can be found where they are best needed.
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I need to go back and read "Stranger in a Strange Land" again. It has been about 50 years since I was in High School and read it. Thanks for the reminder.
 
jollystomper said:
It is a complex subject, but some of my "quick" views:

...
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Great list! I just omitted it to avoid clutter. I agree on all your points.

The part about scaring people is spot on. Fear is an incredible tool used to manipulate people and bring them to a "tribe" of thought. We've seen the internet used in really ugly ways using this technique. We also see fear used to sell products, another one of your points. Of course, TV news does this too, and always has.

BTW, there's a good chance a byte or two of this transmission uses some code I once wrote long ago. This isn't necessarily a proud moment for me. I had a moment of clarity sometime a few years after Facebook got going, when I saw it being used in very devious ways. I looked at DW and said: "Time to retire. I've helped build the guns and ammo." I wasn't joking, it did help me put another point on my list of reasons to retire. Of course, there's so much good too, so I'm not a curmudgeon on it. Just some days it bothers me.
 
I agree. There's much that's useful and I wouldn't want to lose it but the "curated" searches where you input "XYZ Hotel Gatlinburg" and get 10 links to reservation engines and other properties before XYZ Hotel's site are just the beginning of the annoyances. My additions:

1. Clickbait articles you can't read because there are so many ads you have to smack down and there's a ton of "filler" text because then they can put in more ads. ("Are you curious about X? Many people wonder about that, too. There's been a lot of interest in X in recent months.")

2. SO many "articles" re-hashed from Reddit, most of which seem to involve people inheriting money and other people who think they SHOULD have inherited pressuring them to share it.

3. Some nasty people on discussion boards. I recently left one I'd been on for years after yet one more argument in which I tried carefully to explain my point of view, other nasty attitudes/views were attributed to me and anything I said got twisted and used against me. I tried just saying "I'm out of this discussion" but finally just left the Board entirely. I still lurk- I care about many of them and there's so much sharing of helpful information- but I won't rejoin.

4. Deceptive or slanted headlines. Most recent example: "Madonna revived with Narcan". You know what that looks like. I got into the article and Narcan is used in cases such as the extreme sepsis Madonna had because it can bring them out of it. There was no mention of any suspicion that she'd abused drugs but that's what the headline looked like.

5. Articles masquerading as information that are full of links to products and services: "Frequent Flyers should know these 10 travel hacks", which are all products or services that cost money.

I could probably think of more if I went on!

Markola said:
Raise your hand if you have any idea who pays for the Early Retirement Forum for your use every day? I have no idea but someone is paying for it.
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Well, I believe it was on this forum that I saw the first AthenaGaia ad and I've since BTD'd to the tune of about $4,000 on their exquisite jewelry, over the last couple of years so I guess I am.:D
 
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After doing about 100 reviews for Walmart, I let the relationship lapse. It seemed really easy at first, but after a while....let's just say, never buy anything from Walmart that requires assembly, unless you enjoy frustration.

JoeWras said:
I'm part of the problem. I have gotten involved as a compensated reviewer for two companies.

I am getting out of the job this year.

-----------

I don't hate the internet or say it is useless. I'm just saying it is going backwards in usability.
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JoeWras said:
Maybe I'm just being melodramatic, but it seriously is bugging me as I'm trying to look up hobby stuff and it has either disappeared with the Reddit protest, or becomes some 20 minute YouTube I have to wade through. I also want to discuss theories about movies. Can't do that anymore once Bezos got a hold of IMDB. It got relegated mostly to Reddit. Guess what? Protest.



At least I can still search for stuff here. For now...
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You make some great points.

You are correct that many useful forums have disappeared. I think the help for hobbyists and other content is still out there though finding it is more challenging than before. I've had good luck with almost all auto repair content, for example. I suppose it depends on how arcane the hobby might be.

YouTube videos can be very helpful but I agree that wading through 20 minutes to find the 2 minute relevant portion is a drag. Those YouTubers that index their videos should be commended. It ought to be a mandatory feature on videos over 10 minutes long. I also routinely use the playback setting at 1.25X and even 1.5X speed.

I rarely use Reddit, except for when it comes up in Google searches. I never had an account. I can see where The Protest would be a great loss to people with specialized interests.

Almost everything online is monetized. I don't see any way around it. I guess there are degrees of monetization--does the site owner want to make a living off their site or do they merely want to pay for the upkeep?

Some product review sites are barely disguised affiliate sites. For a while I was impressed with the NYTimes Wirecutter site until I realized it's just a camouflaged affiliate site. I still think they do a good job reviewing products but they've lost a bit of luster with me. I've since discovered the Wall Street Journal has a similar product review team. <Sigh.> I think there is an opportunity for honest reviews that don't hammer on the "click here to buy" buttons.

I think all this analysis should make us really appreciate ER.org. May it live long though not prosper.
 
Qs Laptop said:
Some product review sites are barely disguised affiliate sites. For a while I was impressed with the NYTimes Wirecutter site until I realized it's just a camouflaged affiliate site. I still think they do a good job reviewing products but they've lost a bit of luster with me. I've since discovered the Wall Street Journal has a similar product review team. <Sigh.> I think there is an opportunity for honest reviews that don't hammer on the "click here to buy" buttons.

I think all this analysis should make us really appreciate ER.org. May it live long though not prosper.
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Most of the product review sites are just thinly veiled sites that want to sell you something so they collect the affinity dollars. They don’t care if you buy the #1 rated product or the #99 rated product as long as you buy it through their site and they get the money. Wirecutter is OK, better than most, but that is not saying much.

I still make good use of Consumer Reports, both the magazine and the website. I find its reliability surveys have saved me a lot of repairs over the years. And, it also points out things to watch our for when buying refrigerators, stoves, dryers, etc. A lot of them I would not have known to look for, especially since today’s appliances are so much more ‘sophisticated’ than my old basic stuff from the 1980’s

I have also found Checkbook to be useful. It saved me almost $1000 a few years ago when I ordered new window coverings to replace my 1960’s style drapes. And another $4000 when I had my heating and cooling system installed. Basically, on both occasions it pointed me to smaller, family owned businesses with lower overhead costs and a good reputations. I probably would not know they existed otherwise.
 
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Just think how easy the internet has made investing for the average person. It's an invaluable resource and has revolutionized darn near every aspect of our lives and for the better in most cases, at least IMHO.
 
frayne said:
Just think how easy the internet has made investing for the average person. It's an invaluable resource and has revolutionized darn near every aspect of our lives and for the better in most cases, at least IMHO.
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Oh yeah. Investing. Darn right!

I still remember running out to the Fidelity office at lunch during the '87 crash. I was intentionally buying on the crash. But I had to get out of the office, drive, and write a check.

Today: click.

No reversing there... except for maybe Vanguard's UI, but that's their problem. :flowers:
 
Maybe I am just a late adopter to Reddit. Lately I have used it to find first hand knowledge how govt employees are feeling about how their agencies are or are not taking care of the workforce. As for YouTube that is my go to. I can throw on headphones on a topic I am interested in and go about my business or glance if I need to see what they are streaming.
 
I have also found Checkbook to be useful. It saved me almost $1000 a few years ago when I ordered new window coverings to replace my 1960’s style drapes. And another $4000 when I had my heating and cooling system installed. Basically, on both occasions it pointed me to smaller, family owned businesses with lower overhead costs and a good reputations. I probably would not know they existed otherwise.Quote!
__________________Never heard of this site and when I put it in search I just came up with sites to order checks or bookkeeping services.
 
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I'm still finding plenty of good content online but, as W2R said, flexibility is key, as the ways to find that content do change over time. I appreciate focused forums like this one, for quality content. I used to value Yahoo Groups for great information on the specific sub-interests of my radio hobby. Yahoo Groups died, but then Groups.io came along, so now I use that. Even so, every now and then, a valued forum bites the dust, and the wealth of information it used to contain goes with it. That happened not so long ago with a radio board I used to frequent. An attempt has been to revive it in another place, but I suspect that many of the core folk who were contributing most of the valuable content have moved on to other interests. Most folk can only be prolific for so long.

There are currently some FB groups that I value for focused knowledge. It's nearly always the smaller FB groups that I like, as the big ones become hard to effectively moderate, and turn into a zoo. Nevertheless, FB, like everything else online, is ephemeral.

Oh, another valuable resource for online hobby information are the websites that individuals host. I find these extremely useful, as the time and effort involved to create these are, in effect, their own editing process. Non-serious people who want to contribute meaningless content rarely go to the trouble to create and host a website. Many/most of those sites eventually go dark, as their owners either lose interest and don't renew the domain, or they themselves pass on. In those cases, by that time, the Wayback Machine has often captured their sites for future generations. Of course, someone has to maintain the Wayback Machine. And so it continues........!

As a kid, I would spend countless evenings and weekends reading and re-reading my small collection of radio books and magazines. Nowadays, I do the same, but with the vast amount of knowledge available online. The internet is fantastic. In other words, ignore the detritus. Look for, and heartily consume, the good stuff. Joe, I suspect your perspective has been heavily influenced by your work as an online reviewer.
 
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The loss of certain sport teams forums really hurt. Many NHL teams had team sponsored forums, with volunteer moderators that did a great job.

During COVID, my team summarily removed the forum while one of the mods was mid-post. Nobody was notified, not even the volunteer mods. It was just ... gone.

This was only discovered a few days later as some people came to reddit to try to figure out what happened. But now they are all gone, as am I. Every post was F-this and MF-that. It got tiresome.

It may seem trivial, but it was really a loss to long time fans who enjoyed the very cordial discussion.
 
Yeah that searching on a hotel and then having to dodge a bunch of reservations sites before getting to the hotel website really gets me. Incredibly annoying! Some of the sites even try to pose as the official hotel website.
 
audreyh1 said:
Yeah that searching on a hotel and then having to dodge a bunch of reservations sites before getting to the hotel website really gets me. Incredibly annoying! Some of the sites even try to pose as the official hotel website.
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I'd put car shopping in this retrograde category too. Very similar.
 
Hint: Folks can avoid ads and clickbait gunk on all sites by using the Brave browser.

Web 3 is partially about moving beyond Web 2’s ads-supported internet and instead giving readers the ability to make micropayments, either optional or compelled, for quality, enjoyable content. For example, in the future, instead of ads and clickbait, you’ll be able to pay content providers a few cents instantly for a recipe you like with one click rather than having to read five useless pages intended solely to provide enough space for abundant ads. Ideally, this value will be transferred via a single, secure, agreed upon global internet currency, which everyone would purchase with one’s local fiat currency.
 
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As far as video being king, one of my biggest issues with internet content these days is that it all tends to be video. I can read an article in about a tenth of the time it takes to watch a video. If I'm watching something for entertainment value, fine. But if I'm looking for information it's getting harder to find anything useful in written format. I don't think many people remember how to write, and definitely don't write well. I am probably becoming less well informed since I tend to skip the video news articles. It's a little annoying, but in the long run it's not worth wasting my time on.
 
harley said:
As far as video being king, one of my biggest issues with internet content these days is that it all tends to be video. I can read an article in about a tenth of the time it takes to watch a video. If I'm watching something for entertainment value, fine. But if I'm looking for information it's getting harder to find anything useful in written format. I don't think many people remember how to write, and definitely don't write well. I am probably becoming less well informed since I tend to skip the video news articles. It's a little annoying, but in the long run it's not worth wasting my time on.
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I'm with you, and this was part of my initial rant.

We can see, however, a lot of users like video, including people who have responded on this thread. I can respect that.

However, one can't deny that Youtube is an incredible vehicle for monetization, and this has been a significant factor in the rise of video. It pays google well, and it pays the sophisticated content creators well.

Hence, Google now will nudge you towards Youtube first, before text articles, because: MONEY.
 
harley said:
As far as video being king, one of my biggest issues with internet content these days is that it all tends to be video. I can read an article in about a tenth of the time it takes to watch a video. If I'm watching something for entertainment value, fine. But if I'm looking for information it's getting harder to find anything useful in written format. I don't think many people remember how to write, and definitely don't write well. I am probably becoming less well informed since I tend to skip the video news articles. It's a little annoying, but in the long run it's not worth wasting my time on.
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Yep. This is me as well.
 
Things just change over time... the WWW is always changing and our expectations and methods of getting value need to stay in step with those changes - just like everything else in life. Searching the WWW effectively is a skill.

I cannot imagine life without the conveniences and time-saving aspects that the WWW has made possible. Investment management, banking, information research, entertainment, health/medical information, travel research, travel booking, etc. etc.

It's amazing how much time has been saved by having the WWW at our fingertips. Ignore social media, ignore clickbait traps and just revel in the recognition of the hours back that you've gained.

I've deleted my FB account about a year ago... deleted other social media accounts too as they are just divisive cesspools much of the time (not always - but the signal:noise wasn't worth the effort).
 
Markola said:
Hint: Folks can avoid ads and clickbait gunk on all sites by using the Brave browser.

Web 3 is partially about moving beyond Web 2’s ads-supported internet and instead giving readers the ability to make micropayments, either optional or compelled, for quality, enjoyable content. For example, in the future, instead of ads and clickbait, you’ll be able to pay content providers a few cents instantly for a recipe you like with one click rather than having to read five useless pages intended solely to provide enough space for abundant ads. Ideally, this value will be transferred via a single, secure, agreed upon global internet currency, which everyone would purchase with one’s local fiat currency.
Click to expand...

I can't wait. Interestingly, one of the browsers I use: Brave, is connected to (or maybe even created by) the same guys who invented BAT token (Basic Attention Token). You earn it simply by browsing and allowing ads to show up and you can spend it on anyone who accepts it - say, reddit. So while it's not web3 yet, it's a start.

Internet is not perfect but it has already changed the world and it has the ability to disrupt it even more - maybe with the help of AI? I think nation states are quite aware of its power hence all the hostility governments have towards everything that's cross bordered an uncontrollable, social media and encrypted communication apps being main targets. It won't be in my time but I hope that one day internet will destroy the borders, wipe off governments and create a new world order. Very sci-fi but history has seen stranger things.
 
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harley said:
As far as video being king, one of my biggest issues with internet content these days is that it all tends to be video. I can read an article in about a tenth of the time it takes to watch a video. If I'm watching something for entertainment value, fine. But if I'm looking for information it's getting harder to find anything useful in written format. I don't think many people remember how to write, and definitely don't write well. I am probably becoming less well informed since I tend to skip the video news articles. It's a little annoying, but in the long run it's not worth wasting my time on.
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My guess is you are not less well informed. Probably just the opposite. I think video doesn’t inform well and share the same preference for text over video. This may be a generational thing, as my children all seem to prefer video.

I think in general the sense of loss of a more personable internet is because as things become popular they get monetized, and this drives the amateurs and hobbiests away. I think many, or ant least some, are still out there, but more difficult to find.
 
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