Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-11-2008, 05:39 PM   #41
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
Sorry Al, putting the money in a fund that you may or may not give to charity later on is not giving to charity. You sound like you want to give money to charity, but you also want to keep the money for yourself. To make yourself feel better you are going to put some money in a fund and say “this is for charity,” but you’ll spend the money yourself if you need it later on. You can’t have it both ways. You need to decide if you are going to give money to charity or not, and then do it. If you want to keep your money that’s your right, but don’t try and fool yourself with this “separate account” gimmick.
What else can you expect from a bunch of selfish ERs?
__________________

__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-12-2008, 09:01 AM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Lazy, some even broadcast in HD (more clarity - get it?). If Al wants to leave money to charity in his will then that’s great, and I’m sure they will appreciate it. If you think that the point of giving to charity is to influence your own happiness, then maybe this should be your only charitable giving. All the warm fuzzies, none of the sacrifice. Al’s post strongly suggests, and he’s definitely on to something here, that he feels it’s important to give money to charity now. But then he get’s this idea: he can just pretend to give money to charity. He’ll be “giving” now, but he can spend the money later if he feels like it. If he doesn’t feel like it, they’ll get the money eventually. He knows this is wrong, but the idea is seductive, it sounds so good. Maybe it’s just him. He goes to his friends at the ERF to set him straight. Don’t worry Al, I’ve got your back! Don’t do it! Listen to your heart, and do what’s right!

On the other hand, maybe Al feels that this is the right thing to do, and he’s trying to convince his wife or something. In that case, me coming out against his plan is surely the best way to convince everyone that he’s right! It’s win/win!
__________________

__________________
bongo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 05:09 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
we favor what makes us happy while avoiding causes of unhappiness. it is silly to say that the point of charity is to make you happy just because giving to charity happens to do so. the purpose of charity is, of course, to help others. but unless you are masochistic, if it made you miserable, you wouldn't do it. just like if it made you miserable to not give, then you would give so you don't feel badly. then there are people who don't give to charity at all and don't feel one way or the other about that. do you suggest that the people who do give to charity are equally uneffected?

another poster correctly observed that watching the results of current charitable giving can bring additional happiness during life, because you can see the results of your giving. from that, it can be extrapolated that it is less self-serving to delay giving until after death because in doing so we sacrifice the very happiness that we'd receive from seeing our charity benefit others during our own lifetime.

so no, this is not all black and white to me even in the more expensive hd version.

does this deny atruism? sorry, but to put your hand in your pocket and pull out some change--regardless of the timing of it all--is just a matter of sharing and does not, to me, a hero make.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 06:15 PM   #44
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Lazy, I think you are inferring something which I did not intend to imply. I'm not saying that bequeathing money is wrong. All I'm saying is that Al seems to feel that he should be giving money today (that's what I read in the "$2000 a year" comment). Perhaps he doesn't, and I am also inferring too much. But if he does, then he shouldn't try and fool himself into thinking that he is giving money by putting it in a slush fund. That is the only black and white issue.

Now, I do think that giving money today is better than waiting until death, but that is more subtle. As you say, the purpose of charity is to help others, and I happen to believe that the returns from charitable contributions (carefully chosen) will be much greater than the returns from investments. This suggests that the best time to give to charity is now, but other reasonable people may disagree. I think there is a second reason to give to charity, and that is that the practice of a little self-sacrifice benefits the giver. It's a little bit karmic, and a little bit therapeutic. If you defer until death then you give up that second benefit. However, this is not a selfless reason, as you point out.
__________________
bongo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 11:13 PM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
What else can you expect from a bunch of selfish ERs?
Apparently that we work until we die, except that when we achieve FI we continue working to send our paychecks to charity.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 01:49 PM   #46
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutros View Post
also disadvantages: no immediate tax deduction
You don't get a deduction unless you itemize anyway. We sent off more than $3,000 to charity last year but we still claim the standard deduction. Ergo, no tax writeoff.

Sometimes I've thought about setting aside $20,000 or so into a charitable giving trust, so I can get the write-off, and just give out a chunk of that each year for a few years.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 02:22 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
Lazy, I think you are inferring something which I did not intend to imply. I'm not saying that bequeathing money is wrong. ...then he shouldn't try and fool himself into thinking that he is giving money by putting it in a slush fund. That is the only black and white issue....
actually i was mostly referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo2 View Post
...If you think that the point of giving to charity is to influence your own happiness, then maybe this should be your only charitable giving. All the warm fuzzies, none of the sacrifice. Al’s post strongly suggests, and he’s definitely on to something here, that he feels it’s important to give money to charity now. But then he get’s this idea: he can just pretend to give money to charity. He’ll be “giving” now, but he can spend the money later if he feels like it.
by saying that i don't think this is a black and white, right or wrong, one size fits all matter.

i also don't believe that charity is limited by time. if it were, there would not exist charitable foundations. i do not believe that al-t would be fooling himself by funding his foundation now and considering that to be his current charitable giving even though it might not fund that new library until after he is long gone.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 03:26 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,072
T-Al - it's your money, do what you want with it - frankly, I give spot checks to organizations that I see are beneficial. This year it was the USO - I gave them money right then and there when I had to partake due to some circumstances. Some years it's the Salvation Army - some years it's nobody. Am I selfish - perhaps - I don't consider myself selfish if I am self-sufficient and don't have to draw on the 'collective' for my needs.
__________________

__________________
Deserat aka Bridget
“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” - George Orwell/Winston Churchill
deserat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proposition: Early Retirement is Selfish bongo2 Life after FIRE 345 01-02-2008 02:07 PM
Hear is your Selfish TB patient................. Cut-Throat Health and Early Retirement 14 06-03-2007 10:34 PM
Donating to Charity WanderALot FIRE and Money 13 08-04-2005 10:37 PM
Fire and Charity maddythebeagle FIRE and Money 13 07-27-2005 10:30 AM
Giving to Charity Mountain Mike Other topics 11 02-18-2005 06:14 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:13 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.