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Linux OS Users - Tell your story here
Old 06-05-2014, 04:25 PM   #1
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Linux OS Users - Tell your story here

I keep seeing others referencing Linux, so I thought maybe it would be worth its own thread. Here's my (OK, not so) little story, and a note on what I might be able to learn from others here:

Back in April 2009, we were planning a little vacation and I thought a netbook would be handy. At the time, the Apple offerings were ~ $1500 IIRC, far more than I wanted to spend.

GETTING STARTED: I found an ASUS PC901 on Amazon for $289, if you got the Linux version they included a larger SS Drive (16GB versus 4, 8? GB for the Windows version). So I thought I'd give Linux a try. It came pre-installed with Xandros Linux , which at first seemed great (booted fast, found my network right away, I was browsing in no time), but within a few days, the issues that I had read a bit about were hitting hard time (Xandros was pretty 'locked down', I couldn't delete a bunch of apps I didn't use, updates were eating up all the 4GB system SSD, etc). Based on a lot of posts on the unit, I bit the bullet and decided to install a Ubuntu derivative, EEEbuntu (NetBook Remix 8.04). According to my notes, this was simple, and I had web browsing, printing all working in no time (with no previous Linux experience, and just a tiny bit of familiarity with Unix, but just using the DOS-like commands to look around the directory, and write little cron scripts and such).

It looks like I upgraded that little ASUS netbook to 9.04 and then 10.04 (which it is still on - I mostly use it as a music player, and a few other tasks - if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I'm unsure if newer releases will fit in 4GB, but they probably will). I was pretty amazed at all the stuff I can do on that little thing with a 4GB system disc, and 1GB RAM and a tiny ATOM processor. I have GIMP, SketchUp 3D drawing program, Audacity sound editor, browsers, email, SKYPE, TeamViewer (desktop sharing program), OpenOffice, photo manager, WINE, and a bunch more.

It has served me well, and I also took it with me when I went to Budapest in 2011. Browsing, using email and SKYPE-ing home, managing my photos, tracking our expenses, writing a diary as we went.


NEXT STEPS: I was so impressed with how easy it was to use and install Linux/UBUNTU, that when my 2005 iMac died in 2010, I decided to go with Linux/Ubuntu for my everyday machine. I bought a pretty inexpensive, rather stripped down laptop, in case I wasn't happy I wouldn't be out much (15" EMachines E725, $378 - no webcam, no bluetooth) . Long story short, no regrets. But we do have DW's MacBook Pro as a 'back up', in case there is something I just can't do within Linux (almost never - hmmmm, I think the TomTom HOME GPS app only runs in Mac/Windows, and not under WINE - that's about it I think). Later, I updated that to 12.04 Xubuntu, as I preferred the XFCE interface to what they were doing with Ubuntu and Unity.

I really like how I have easily customized my desktop to work the way I like. Later, I may put up a video to show how easy it is to get to menus, customize them the way you like, and the different virtual desktops (workspaces).

CURRENTLY: I decided to buy a new laptop when 14.04 came out, since my E725 was pretty low-end to begin with, and I could use it as a 'spare' for experimenting and stuff. So I got a Lenovo 17", G710 for $570, reasonably well equipped, but I just bought 8GB memory for ~ $67 to go from 6GB to 12GB (give up one 2GB module). I keep LOTS of open windows/tabs in browsers, so memory goes quickly for me.

For 14.04, I just kept Windows on it (though I have done almost nothing with it), and installed Xubuntu alongside it. I can choose to boot/reboot into Windows at any time.

Not sure what to add, other than to say it really is not hard to try Linux out for yourself. Yes, I'm a tech type, but I honestly don't know all that much about computers. I never did DOS, my home computers were mostly Macs, so you don't really do all that much 'under the hood' stuff on those, and when we used Windows at work, the IT guys were in control. So I'm probably less familiar with a lot of the geeky computer stuff than most techy types. BIOS and anything like that has me googling.

Oh, and you don't really need to do much with the terminal and command lines. I was initially confused why in the troubleshooting forums, people were always throwing around terminal commands when there was a very simple point and click way to do the same thing. Then the light bulb went off (on?)! It takes a lot of writing to try to tell somebody "Pull down such and such menu, go to such and such tab, now click 'Options' in the lower right corner, see that little box marked 'bla-bla'? No? Oh, you are one version behind, they moved that box, so... (start over)" . But, the terminal commands are much more stable, and one only has to copy/paste a line or two to do the same thing. So it's just handy, that's all. If you are comfortable in the terminal, you can do a lot w/o having to find a program that fits the bill, but that's mostly a preference for most tasks.

BTW, I'm forced to use the terminal in Mac OSX more than I might in Linux - heck, just to show hidden files now (which I had to do recently while troubleshooting on the Mac), I had to go into the terminal, turn hidden on/off, and restart the Finder for every change. That is simply CNTRL-H in Ubuntu/Linux.

I'd be interested in hearing other stories about using Linux (good and bad). Also, when I switched to the Xubuntu variant, I tested out a few others, Mint, Cinnamon come to mind. They seemed a bit half-baked, so I went with the more main-stream Xubuntu. I've been happy with it, but wonder if I'm missing anything with the other variants? I now have the E725 to 'play with', so loading alternate releases is easy since I don't tie up my main machine.

Whew! Let's hear from you now! - ERD50
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:20 PM   #2
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I started with linux in 92 when Torvalds posted the 0.10a kernel on compuserve. It was a little rough back then, it just booted to blinking cursor. You had to edit the kernel with a hex editor and change some bits to tell where the boot device was located. To get a system, each piece had to be downloaded individually and most was in source code and had to be compiled before use. The kernel, C compiler and a few other basic tools were maintained by individuals and distributed as binaries, then a system could be built from those. There was an earlier system called minix that sort of was the inspiration for linux.

Slackware was one of the first all in one "distros" ( it was a branch/cleanup of SLS linux ), Redhat came along, Toms Root Boot (tomsrtbt) was a tiny distro that fit on two floppies. Lot's of other came and went. I built my own system for many years ( roll your own ), there was users group for DIY linux projects. The XFree86 project ported the windowing system over around 95 or so. One of the nice things with linux is the GUI is not integrated into kernel and you can use whatever GUI you choose ( there are many )

So I have been with linux since it's inception. I guess the one drawback is lack of software products people are used to like Quicken, but there are many opensource projects to replace most apps.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:31 PM   #3
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I use both linux and windows at w*rk. Linux because some of our engineering tools are linux based as is the product I'm working on. Windows because the corporation that acquired us last year is very invested in a microsoft infrastructure - so the corporate tools are all windows based. (but they're moving to web based for some stuff... so the end of windows at work is theoretically possible.)

We run fedora, fwiw. Seems to work fine.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:36 PM   #4
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I'm primarily a Windows user, but have a dual boot system with Ubuntu on an external drive. I use Ubuntu for all home financial transactions and nothing else, and the Ubuntu load shuts down the internal drives in my PC when it boots. It's like having 2 completely separate computers without the extra space.

Despite its various failings I prefer Windows for its software availability (Photoshop > Gimp, etc), but the general freedom from malware in Linux really improves my peace of mind.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmrtn View Post
I started with linux in 92 when Torvalds posted the 0.10a kernel on compuserve. It was a little rough back then, it just booted to blinking cursor. You had to edit the kernel with a hex editor and change some bits to tell where the boot device was located. To get a system, each piece had to be downloaded individually and most was in source code and had to be compiled before use. The kernel, C compiler and a few other basic tools were maintained by individuals and distributed as binaries, then a system could be built from those. There was an earlier system called minix that sort of was the inspiration for linux.

Slackware was one of the first all in one "distros" ( it was a branch/cleanup of SLS linux ), Redhat came along, Toms Root Boot (tomsrtbt) was a tiny distro that fit on two floppies. Lot's of other came and went. I built my own system for many years ( roll your own ), there was users group for DIY linux projects. The XFree86 project ported the windowing system over around 95 or so. One of the nice things with linux is the GUI is not integrated into kernel and you can use whatever GUI you choose ( there are many )

So I have been with linux since it's inception. I guess the one drawback is lack of software products people are used to like Quicken, but there are many opensource projects to replace most apps.
I started playing with Linux in 95, so XFree86 was already available. Yes, Slackware distribution was what I used. My interest was in using a version of Linux called RTLinux to do real-time processing on VME industrial boards with Intel CPUs. The VME world started out with Motorola 68K CPUs, but they started to trail badly behind Intel chips in terms of raw CPU power. And I needed something other than "Windoze" to run on these VME boards.

Then, in 96 I left megacorp to pursue my own interest, and did not have the need to keep up with Linux development. Just the other day, decided to boot up Ubuntu on one of the desktops to play with. Sadly, my interests have waned, and I have not done anything more with that.

Prior to this, a couple of years ago I was thinking of setting up a Linux-based NAS. I chose FreeNAS, and it took no time at all to get it up and running. However, I already had Windows Server running, and its backup function was a lot more integrated with Windows clients. So, I did not use FreeNAS for much.

I am getting lazy. There is a hardware project I should do for my RV, but can't get myself motivated. Software or PC-related projects also do not interest me much anymore.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:54 PM   #6
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I started with linux in 92 when Torvalds posted the 0.10a kernel on compuserve. ... .
Wow, that's hardcore!

I can't recall when I first become aware of Linux, but I got a lot of tech magazines at work, so must have picked up some of it along the way. I seem to remember getting a 3.5" 'floppy' with Red Hat on it ~ late 90's, didn't do anything with it.

But when I first heard about Linux and the open source movement, I recall thinking, 'wow, that's ambitious, I can't imagine it will go anywhere, but it's interesting'. Then it became a big deal in servers, and then I thought, 'That's cool and impressive, but running a server doesn't take much user interaction, I can't imagine they could complete a functional desktop like Windows or the Mac OS'. Then when I actually loaded Ubuntu 8.04 in 2009, I was amazed at how great the desktop was. It's hard for me to believe they have pulled this off.

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I'm primarily a Windows user, but have a dual boot system with Ubuntu on an external drive. I use Ubuntu for all home financial transactions and nothing else, and the Ubuntu load shuts down the internal drives in my PC when it boots. It's like having 2 completely separate computers without the extra space.
That's a good way to approach it. Useful and very simple.

Quote:
Despite its various failings I prefer Windows for its software availability (Photoshop > Gimp, etc), but the general freedom from malware in Linux really improves my peace of mind.
Yes, it really depends on your needs. I haven't missed much, and I like the fact that there are so many little apps (and big ones) totally free, that I can try out. I know I wanted a few little utilities on the Mac that would only use very, very occasionally, and everything was $30 or so. That's fine if you get a lot of use out of it, but it's hard to beat 'free' when it meets your needs.

GIMP is good enough for my occasional needs, but I'm sure a real PhotoShop user would want the 'real thing'.

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Originally Posted by rodi View Post
I use both linux and windows at w*rk. Linux because some of our engineering tools are linux based as is the product I'm working on. Windows because the corporation that acquired us last year is very invested in a microsoft infrastructure - so the corporate tools are all windows based. (but they're moving to web based for some stuff... so the end of windows at work is theoretically possible.)

We run fedora, fwiw. Seems to work fine.
I really like web-based stuff where it is possible. Keeps the whole OS-wars out of the equation.

Thanks all for the feedback, interesting stuff.

-ERD50
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:01 PM   #7
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I dual-boot Windows 7 /Ubuntu on my laptop. I spend more time in Windows, mainly because I do work on a couple of Windows applications. Except for that, Ubuntu does everything else just as well, 'cept attract malware...
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:33 PM   #8
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I started playing with Linux back in the late 1990's, as Megacorp began to show interest in it for projects, and I thought it would be good to get ahead of the curve (as well as add to my knowledge of operating systems). My first Linux system I built from parts left over after upgrading a home built system, and its speed on hardware that Windows crawled on had me hooked. While I still use Windows for desktop applications, my Linux "Penguin Colony" both at my home lab and work has grown, predominantly SuSE, Red Hat, Fedora, and OpenSuSE, for various programming projects, database applications and networking learning, particularly as VMware or KVM "cloud" guests. I also have access to mainframes that are running Linux.

I have just started looking at Ubuntu to replace the Windows XP desktops that we have taken off of the network. Playing with Linux alone could fill up my future retirement.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:39 PM   #9
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I started using Linux around 1996/1997. At that time, I was still using Amigas for my home computers, had about three of them. Commodore was gone, and I needed a replacement system. I had used MS-DOS and MS Windows computers at work, and tried to use them at home. Microsoft makes the most obtuse, nonintuitive, software of any company I've ever had the misfortune of using (and I've programmed mainframes using Hollerith cards). I tried using Win95 for my home setup, but it was too much of a PITA. So, I tried Redhat, Caldera, Suse, Debian, and then Slackware. Ended up using Ubuntu at home for most of my machines, although I did build a cool data acquisition platform for work about twelve years ago running Slackware from a compact flash card on a x86 SBC. Ended up deploying about 175 units, then developing a new system using OpenEmbedded Linux. Got about 530 units of that system running, measuring gas data.

My home DVR/DLNA server, arcade emulator, and desktop computer are all running Linux. Very few problems, the machines just run. The system image on the arcade emulator has been migrated through three different computers using dd, with no issues other than having to update the video driver.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:50 PM   #10
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I installed Ubuntu on a work laptop about 5(?) years ago and that lasted about 2 years until the hard drive fried itself. Work stuff is all Windows and I conformed once again. Now I work part time (engineering consulting) for the same firm and still use a Windows 8.1 laptop when on the road only because it's easy.

I recently put Mint in a dual boot configuration on the XP desktop I am currently using. I have played around with it a bit and like the interface and will make an effort to move off this old XP OS to Mint soon.

The other machine in the home office is a Win 7 box that DW uses. She won't go near Linux.

Hats off to the hard core and early adopters to the open source code. Quite an accomplishment in light of the masses that took the "easy way".
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:13 PM   #11
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I experimented with Xandros about 10-12 years ago on an aging desktop. For the most part it was easy to install and use, and it did the simple things I wanted it to do, but I had trouble with a couple of device drivers. Sound was the worst as I recall. After 6-8 months of using it as my daily driver I decided to pop for a new desktop, and I went back to Windows with XP as I recall.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:46 AM   #12
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I got my first Red Hat distribution in about 1997 and installed it on an old PC. Shortly after that I moved my family web set from an external server to a Linux server in the basement. Over the years I configured half a dozen old PCs to run various distributions from Red Hat and Ubuntu (there was another one in there that I am forgetting). I mainly used them for web servers, file and print servers, and to try out open source intrusion detection (SNORT) and vulnerability assessment (Nessus) software. Since I didn't use the Linux boxes for day to day activities I ended up losing my interest after I dumped my web site. I still have a box running a print server for my ancient HP Laserjet N but I don't patch it and don't open it to the Internet.

It seems evident that Linux will never become a popular desktop/laptop for everyday users but it sure did make a difference on the professional and business side.
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:43 AM   #13
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Got an old laptop that had win xp but since that's no longer supported, didn't want to buy a new laptop so now have Puppy Linux installed. I use it only for web browsing when traveling. I'd use it for other things maybe but still stumbling around. For example, don't know how to do a simple thing like create a folder on the desktop. I like just downloading then installing on Windows instead of having to go through a repository or I guess by command line. I'm sure some like the command line and find that easy, but that reminds me too much of the DOS days (I'm sure some like that too). But at least for me, as a simple browser I'm happy.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:59 AM   #14
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Been using linux since the mid 90's - I remember the Slackware distro and downloading what seemed like dozens of diskettes over a very slow link in order to install it.

Currently I run OpenSUSE on my desktop box, Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) on my netbook. LMDE allows for rolling upgrades which is nice and works great. Can't remember the last time I had to boot up Windoze for anything.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:21 AM   #15
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... One of the nice things with linux is the GUI is not integrated into kernel and you can use whatever GUI you choose ( there are many ) ...
I missed commenting on this first time around, but yes, this is a really big deal. It took me a while to get my head around this, I always thought of the user interface as an integral part of the Operating System. But in Linux, it's just another series of apps, and you can swap one for the other much as you would swap one word processor for another.

So when I didn't like where Ubuntu went with Unity, I just loaded an XFCE desktop, and everything was good again. And nothing underneath really changed, and I could choose to go back to Unity at the login if I wanted. Really powerful stuff.

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... Microsoft makes the most obtuse, nonintuitive, software of any company I've ever had the misfortune of using (and I've programmed mainframes using Hollerith cards). ...
That bugged me when I would need to be on Windows. IIRC (and maybe this has been improved), the file/folder name characters were more limited than the Mac, so I'd often make the 'mistake' of trying to use them in a name. I'd get some error message with some long list of illegal char, and I think it covered up the name I used, so it was hard to tell what was wrong. Why not just tell me which char that I used is illegal? The Mac went further, and just did not allow the typing of the few illegal char (I think ":" was the only non-allowed, the equiv of "/" for file level marker). Hah! That was back in OS9, I just tried it in OSX 8, and it is as bad as Windows was - just a long list and a suggestion to use less punctuation! Lame! Just tried in Xubuntu, only "/" appears to be illegal, and it tells you. But it could be better, it should offer to accept the name w/o the "/", instead I have to re-type the whole thing.

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I experimented with Xandros about 10-12 years ago on an aging desktop. ... After 6-8 months of using it as my daily driver I decided to pop for a new desktop, and I went back to Windows with XP as I recall.
Well, Linux has come a long way in 10-12 years!

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...

It seems evident that Linux will never become a popular desktop/laptop for everyday users ...
While I felt that way at one time, I'm not sure of that at all (even substituting 'long time' for 'never'). First, Linux made its way into our devices like DVD players, roku boxes, etc. Then into things with more UI, like our GPSs. Then into our Android phones and tablets. And now the Chromebook.

But sure, as long as one has to download and install it, it will be limited to a small % of somewhat geeky types. 99% of people wouldn't do that, probably never upgrade their memory even, but buy a new machine instead. Even if you showed them a version of Linux they liked, DL and install would be too large a barrier. So until it is more widely available pre-installed, it will be somewhat of a niche. But as I said, we've got Chromebooks and Android tablets now, so I think that day may be coming 'soon'.

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... so now have Puppy Linux installed. I use it only for web browsing when traveling. I'd use it for other things maybe but still stumbling around. For example, don't know how to do a simple thing like create a folder on the desktop. ...
I have not played with the Puppy variant, but creating a folder on the desktop in Xubuntu is just as you would expect - right-click and select "Create Folder...".

Quote:
... I like just downloading then installing on Windows instead of having to go through a repository or I guess by command line.
I guess I don't quite follow this. I install new apps sometimes through the Ubuntu Software Center (similar to an 'app store'), but usually through the Synaptics Package manager, as it just gives me more info about what will be DL'd and how much memory it takes. But neither require a command line. If it is going to DL a ton of other libraries, I may check a bit before I decide to do that.

If their 'ppa' is not already in your list of approved repositories (my terminology may be a bit off), that is an extra step, and I do it seldom enough that I do end up scratching my head a bit to get it done.

As a side note here, I still don't have a good grasp of what makes up an 'app' in Linux. In other OSs, there is a file (.exe, .app, etc) that you run. It will likely draw on other library components, but that file is the main 'thing'. In Linux, I just don't even understand what an 'app' is - there seems to be a command that kicks things off, but it confuses me as to what happens next. I think it has to do with the way Linux is built from shared components, but I dunno. And one pet peeve here - the app naming (lack of) conventions is confusing, esp to newbies. Sometimes, looking at an open app, you don't know what it is called, you go to the 'About' menu, and the dialog tells you something like "Movie Player", but in most other places, that is referred to and loaded as "Totem". Confusing.

-ERD50
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:31 AM   #16
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DW kept infecting my MSFT PC by using overseas drama sites. I've converted my "infected" desktop PC to a Linux machine. Since then, no issues. It was "relatively" easy to install. But if you are not a techie or so inclined, you can get lost when it comes to installing new SW/drivers, connecting an obsolete wireless printer, etc..
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:38 AM   #17
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I first tried using a version of Ubuntu . 10.2? not sure.

At first, I went "Great!" and did create some folders on my desktop. But when I tried to installed some programs from the repository, I hand a bunch of errors. Searching the internet..resolving the errors involved like manually deleting a huge list of files then try again. Which was more than I wanted to do. That's when I went to Puppy.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:08 AM   #18
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DW kept infecting my MSFT PC by using overseas drama sites. I've converted my "infected" desktop PC to a Linux machine. Since then, no issues.

This brings up a good point, I think. It seems that many people assume you have to be a techy just to use Linux. That's really not the case, IMO.

If I set up a machine with Linux, and choose an appropriate desktop interface, and give it to someone used to any other major OS, they really won't have any problem doing the basics of browsing, email, using Office apps, file management, etc. It's all point/click and not really much different.


Quote:
It was "relatively" easy to install. But if you are not a techie or so inclined, you can get lost when it comes to installing new SW/drivers, connecting an obsolete wireless printer, etc..
Installation can be pretty easy (depends on a few things). I think it actually took me longer to get the pre-installed Windows on this laptop to start up the first time, than it took me to install Xubuntu on it.

But 'pretty easy' is relative. I do think that anyone with basic computer skills could download the file, burn it to DVD, and install it on most systems w/o trouble. The installer is all GUI, and pretty straightforward.

The difficulties (usually minor) come into play when you have hardware that isn't fully supported. That might be as easy as using a wired ethernet connection (if the wireless card isn't supported in the basic package), and just clicking a dialog to allow installing the driver for that card, or other HW that requires extra support. Or, it might call for a bit of searching, finding the proper changes and maybe just copy/paste a few things into the terminal, or maybe editing a system file (these are normally documented pretty well, so it's 'pretty easy'). Looking at my notes, I didn't run into any install issues at all on this Lenovo G710 laptop.

If you want to keep the Windows installation, you do need to understand partitions a bit, and plan accordingly, but not such a big deal. If you just want to blast Linux on the whole disk, it's easy. For 1st timers, I suggest installing it on an external portable USB drive to test things out and get a little experience w/o risking their main HDD setup.

Linux is the only OS I have that still supports my ancient scanner. No drivers in Windows or OSX, but Linux handles it (except for the 'Line Art' mode - but color & grayscale work fine).

-ERD50
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
As a side note here, I still don't have a good grasp of what makes up an 'app' in Linux. In other OSs, there is a file (.exe, .app, etc) that you run. It will likely draw on other library components, but that file is the main 'thing'. In Linux, I just don't even understand what an 'app' is - there seems to be a command that kicks things off, but it confuses me as to what happens next. I think it has to do with the way Linux is built from shared components, but I dunno. And one pet peeve here - the app naming (lack of) conventions is confusing, esp to newbies. Sometimes, looking at an open app, you don't know what it is called, you go to the 'About' menu, and the dialog tells you something like "Movie Player", but in most other places, that is referred to and loaded as "Totem". Confusing.

-ERD50
An app in linux is like an app in any other OS. The .exe etc naming is a leftover DOS convention that windows uses. The compiled binary can be named anything you like. Some of it just depends on the developer. Linux can used shared libs ( like windows ) or compiled static ( the resulting file is huge ). Sometimes they will start the app with a shell script, which sets up the environment based on the user, before launching the actual program.

I probably missed what you were getting at...
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:53 AM   #20
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... Sometimes they will start the app with a shell script, which sets up the environment based on the user, before launching the actual program.

I probably missed what you were getting at...
I think maybe that is what seems to have me confused, I see some shell script setting things up, rather than a 'program'.

For example, I don't really know where 'programs' are stored (* see below). It is simple to create a 'Launcher' for an app, but you need to know the proper command to start up that program or script. Sometimes it is obvious to right-click "Create Launcher", and enter the fields in the dialog, like "command: Nautilus" to start the Nautilus File Manager, sometimes slightly less obvious, like "Command: netflix-desktop" to launch what is called "Netflix Desktop" (w/o the "-"), or there might be a code required, like %U or %F, or that not-uncommon example I gave where the program is labelled 'Movie Player"or "Video Player" and the command is "Totem"(!). Some googling usually will solve this quickly, but it still is a bit off-putting compared to just looking in the "Applications" or "Utilities" Directory and double-clicking a file.


* Hah!, OK, so poking around (finally), it looks like they are in "/usr/bin"? Double-clicking those program names does indeed start them up. So the Launcher dialog assumes this path as default? That's part of my confusion I guess, w/o that path name explicitly called out, there was a little 'black-box-magic' to me. That is a system-wide path, if I wanted an app only available to a specific user, can I just move that file to their home folder? Or is there a bunch of support stuff that has to move as well?

I knew I'd learn a thing or two by starting this thread!

-ERD50
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