Looking for advice on boat problem

[FIREmenow]

Ok, we agree to disagree.

All good.

 

[ERD50]

My idea was to screw the plate to the underside of the deck. Not to clamp the wood between the plate and the hinge. This would not require removing the foam or vinyl. The hinge do provide essentially a point load that could be the only problem. This distributes the load across a larger area and thru multiple screws into the wood. If the plan is to clamp the wood between the hinge and the plate, then the plate only needs to be slightly larger than the hinge itself. But there is already a problem in this area. This is why I suggested the flush plate.

I hope this makes sense.

Yes, I follow you now. I was thinking the hinges came in through the top, but the photo looks like they attach underneath everything. Here's a sketch of what I think you are proposing - a big plate, screwed in many places (probably best to go the full width of the deck), thick enough to be tapped for the hinge bolts (or weld nuts).

I didn't show the screws, and I guess the upholstery probably wraps around and is stapled to the bottom side of the decking, covering some of this, but that wasn't so easy to detail in a sketch, so that is left to the imagination.

But if the top and bottom of the deck is accessible after peeling back the upholstery (if that is necessary), then a plate top and bottom might be a good option, with countersunk flush bolt heads on top, nuts on the 'inside/bottom'. Hard to say until we can see the detail.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

I also had a Stingray like the one pictured which I recently sold, so I cant look at it but I thought it had a piano hinge the whole length of the sundeck. So that is a possibility for you to get some more bite on the wood.

Nope, two small hinges that are maybe 5 or 6 inches wide by 3 inches on each section....

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, I follow you now. I was thinking the hinges came in through the top, but the photo looks like they attach underneath everything. Here's a sketch of what I think you are proposing - a big plate, screwed in many places (probably best to go the full width of the deck), thick enough to be tapped for the hinge bolts (or weld nuts).

I didn't show the screws, and I guess the upholstery probably wraps around and is stapled to the bottom side of the decking, covering some of this, but that wasn't so easy to detail in a sketch, so that is left to the imagination.

But if the top and bottom of the deck is accessible after peeling back the upholstery (if that is necessary), then a plate top and bottom might be a good option, with countersunk flush bolt heads on top, nuts on the 'inside/bottom'. Hard to say until we can see the detail.

-ERD50

Yes, this is the other solution that I was thinking about... having a plate welded to the hinge that has holes in it to grab the good wood...


I just took a pic of a couple of the screws... they have a different head, but similar threads... you can see the 'debris' in the threads of the one that pulled out... there is no extra where there could be a nut in the wood for it to screw into...

Trying to get pic to my email...

 

[FIREmenow]

Yes, this is the other solution that I was thinking about... having a plate welded to the hinge that has holes in it to grab the good wood...

If you don't fix the root of the problem, whatever it may be - water seepage or other, the "good wood" will turn out just like the first, eventually. But maybe that'll be another 11 years and it won't matter to you any longer......

 

[Sunset]

If you want a permanent solution, remove the vinyl and foam, cut out a pressure treated piece of plywood using the old one as a stencil, and then put it all back together.

It is possible the vinyl is leaking the water, something to look at carefully before reusing it.

 

[CRLLS]

-ERD50 Exactly as you showed. The "plate fix" still requires good wood though. Leaky Vinyl is par for the course as every seam will leak. They are usually just sewn and not sealed. Every wet swim suit will soak thru the seam, into the foam and eventually rot the wood.

 

[Texas Proud]

If it works, here is a pic of the screws...

The bigger one is the one that came from the hinge... the other I took off of the lift...

As you might be able to see, there is wood in the threads... the wood goes to the top of the bolt, so there was nothing in the wood to hold it like some have suggested...

I did probe the wood without taking it to bare wood and it seems very solid... I know people have talked about rotted wood, but there is no indication that is the problem... I think it was just the wrong application of screw on a large sun deck that is not that light....

 

[Htown Harry]

I think it was just the wrong application of screw on a large sun deck that is not that light....

+1. Grabbing a bolt rather than a screw on the assembly line would be a likely scenario.

You should be able to find a stainless screw of similar size at most any hardware store. Here's a link to a range of fix possibilities for the stripped-out hole:
Stripped Screw Repair in Wood Applications | DIY House Help

 

[pb4uski]

I think the easiest solution would be to get SS or brass wood screws as large in diameter as will fit through the hinge and as long as you can given the thickness of the deck material and the hinge... hopefully those will bite into the decking material enough to do the trick. If the hole is rounded out and too loose you can stuff the hole with some folded toothpicks to provide more bite.

Alternatively you could get some fasteners that fit your bolts like the piece on the right in the attached picture and install those into the wood (looks like they install with an hex wrench) and hopefully that should work.

 

[Texas Proud]

+1. Grabbing a bolt rather than a screw on the assembly line would be a likely scenario.

You should be able to find a stainless screw of similar size at most any hardware store. Here's a link to a range of fix possibilities for the stripped-out hole:
Stripped Screw Repair in Wood Applications | DIY House Help

But all of the screws are the same, so I think it is not just picking the wrong bolt...

Thanks for the link... I will see what they recommend...

 

[Lakewood90712]

Over the years I have used " Bondoglass " to fill / rebuild rotted wood fiberglass parts on boats and rv's where strength is not real critical. The stuff is polyester resin, with chopped fiblerglass as the filler. ( Regular bondo uses talk power as the filler IIRC ). On the tee nuts, finding some made of stainless steel may be a challange. Maybe McMaster Carr supply ?

 

[FIREmenow]

Over the years I have used " Bondoglass " to fill / rebuild rotted wood fiberglass parts on boats and rv's where strength is not real critical. The stuff is polyester resin, with chopped fiblerglass as the filler. ( Regular bondo uses talk power as the filler IIRC ). On the tee nuts, finding some made of stainless steel may be a challange. Maybe McMaster Carr supply ?

I have bought 316 stainless tee nuts and 316 stainless threaded inserts from McMaster in the past.

 

[ERD50]

Just to be clear - Tee-nuts really should go on the opposite side of the decking from the hinge plate, like any other nut/bolt combo. The advantage of the Tee-nut is that it will be flush if the proper length bolt is used.

From wiki: The flanges of T-nuts often have hooks or serrations on the prongs that dig into a wooden work piece as the bolt is tightened from the opposite side of the piece, providing better retention.

The prongs of the Tee-nut will need enough good material to grab or they won't be very strong. But if he can get to the other side, and there is good decking material, those could work.

But if I was able to get to the other side, I think I'd use a flat head bolt and large washers, and use a nut on the hinge plate side, assuming there is room for a nut there. Otherwise, the large plate that CLLS suggested might be far better.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

I think the easiest solution would be to get SS or brass wood screws as large in diameter as will fit through the hinge and as long as you can given the thickness of the deck material and the hinge... hopefully those will bite into the decking material enough to do the trick. If the hole is rounded out and too loose you can stuff the hole with some folded toothpicks to provide more bite.

Alternatively you could get some fasteners that fit your bolts like the piece on the right in the attached picture and install those into the wood (looks like they install with an hex wrench) and hopefully that should work.

Now this looks like a good option... easier for me to do and if it does not work can go to the large plate on the hinge... as it will not destroy anything that the other option would need...


Will have to get some help in getting the deck off and then it will be much easier to get a look at the holes and also see how much good wood I have...



Edit... what are these called? Was trying to look at them but cannot find them online...

 

[ERD50]

Now this looks like a good option... easier for me to do and if it does not work can go to the large plate on the hinge... as it will not destroy anything that the other option would need...


Will have to get some help in getting the deck off and then it will be much easier to get a look at the holes and also see how much good wood I have...


Edit... what are these called? Was trying to look at them but cannot find them online...

Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

-ERD50

 

[FIREmenow]

Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

-ERD50

I have used these before also:

McMaster-Carr 18-8 Stainless threaded inserts --- 8-32 and 10-24 sizes listed.

If you are going this route, you can increase the overall longevity of the repair by

1. Screwing the inserts into the wood with epoxy added for bonding (protect inside threads from the epoxy by threading in the correct inside screw, sprayed with PAM cooking spray)
2. Bedding the screws into the hinges and inserts with 3M5200

 

[Texas Proud]

Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

-ERD50

The bolts are 3/8in... I do not understand what you mean by too big for the hinges.

 

[FIREmenow]

The bolts are 3/8in... I do not understand what you mean by too big for the hinges.

I think he meant shank diameter. They look like 10-24 from your photo.

 

[ERD50]

I think he meant shank diameter. They look like 10-24 from your photo.

Right, I couldn't really tell from the pictures, and I imagined something small.

So go with the largest bolt shank size that will fit the hinge holes, and use an insert to match (again, this assumes the wood is in pretty good shape,and that the bolts just stripped out of reasonably sound wood).

-ERD50

 

[Clone]

Edit... what are these called? Was trying to look at them but cannot find them online...

Take a look at this search on Amazon- Several different types. Make sure the hole is deep enough if you try to thread in one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Inserts/b?ie=UTF8&node=16410701

 

[capjak]

I do not know how to fix this but I do know that overtime something needs to be fixed Break Out Another Thousand (BOAT).

 

[pb4uski]

....Will have to get some help in getting the deck off and then it will be much easier to get a look at the holes and also see how much good wood I have...

Any update?

 

[Texas Proud]

Any update?

Nope, it is going to take me a bit of time to get this done... one, because I have to get help from my son and second, I just am not motivated to get it done right now.... it is REALLY HOT....

 

[Texas Proud]

OK, an update....

Took off the deck... and it just confirms that the design is REALLY bad... there are also holes in the wood that looks like it was designed for much bigger hinges.... if those hole were used then I am not sure this problem would have happened.... also, if there was any kind of sealer applied it would not happen... last, the wood is only 1/2 inch and the screws do not appear to have gone the full distance...

It looks like I helped in creating this problem... when we would get home I would wash the boat.... seems that if water gets on those back hinges it migrates forward to and then up the screw... so, the wood around where the screws were are not 'solid'... you can tell that there is water damage... however, it does not seem to be that bad either...

So, now I will look to see if I can put in those plugs and if they will hold... but, other things to do so this will be put off for a bit...


BTW, I am not sure they used marine plywood...