Minimum wage. Raise it, lower it...?

[aaronc879]

Behind the minimum wage debate - Sep. 5, 2008

A lot of strong opinions on both sides. What do you think?

 

[Ronstar]

eliminate it!

 

[SecondCor521]

eliminate it!

Ditto.

2Cor521

 

[samclem]

x2. Dump it.

Or, make it $100 an hour! Take this dumb "suspension of market forces" idea to it's logical conclusion! Everyone will be rich, RICH, RICH!

 

[Martha]

Seven-fifty an hour.

http://www.epi.org/minwage/epi_minimum_wage_2006.pdf

Everyone won't be rich and no one thinks so.

 

[Rustic23]

Quick! Move this to 'Soap Box' before it is too late!

 

[unclemick]

Quick! Move this to 'Soap Box' before it is too late!

Too late - too late. I still remember the screaming and yelling, gnashing of teeth when my minimum wage rocketed from $1.15 to $ 1.25 per hour.

I of course lost my job - my stay ended and I went back to college. Washington State circa 1960's. The guy who was planting tree's I trained as a replacement apparently hoped for a little more - he was diddling the boss's daughter and a marriage date had been set.

- two themes in this post that have been going on like forever.

heh heh heh - Yep definitely soap box material.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Like working for 1.5 lbs of bacon per hr. Sign me up!

 

[Goonie]

Like working for 1.5 lbs of bacon per hr. Sign me up!

I'll take that, but I want benefits too! Like eggs, hashbrowns, and buttered wheat toast......with strawberry jam! And if I can't have it all.....I won't work, and thus I'll stay unemployed.....forever!!!


-------------------------
Hmmmmm.......bacon........I think I'll go make a bacon & egg sandwich!

 

[chinaco]

I would leave it as is.

 

[F-One]

Eliminate it but only if hourly employees determine the pay for all management, including company executives - no more CEO's getting the board to approve their pay.

Otherwise, raise it to 7.50/hr

 

[FUEGO]

Looks like you $7.50 proponents will get (almost) your way in July 2009 when the Federal min wage goes to $7.25/hr.

My understanding of the issue was that very few actually receive the minimum wage and that most that do receive it are temporary workers (high school students) or those that may not depend on their wages for their livelihood. Exceptions exist and I'm sure many on here will claim they are abundant.

I don't mean to say that raising the min wage won't have spillover effects raising the nominal wage of those making a buck or two more than minimum wage.

 

[OAG]

Eliminate it! Just another "political talking point". Except for back when I was about 15 (yes I lied about my age) did I ever get minimum wage - actually worked two jobs at the same time so I guess I actually got the minimum wage times 2.

 

[Goonie]

Looks like you $7.50 proponents will get (almost) your way in July 2009 when the Federal min wage goes to $7.25/hr.

I guess the politicians here in [-]the broke state of[/-] IL feel the need to 'out do' the Feds. This is from the State of Illinois website:

Illinois' Minimum Wage Increases to $7.75 on July 1st, 2008
Governor Blagojevich reminds Illinois employers and workers that the state’s minimum wage increases to $7.75 an hour starting on July 1, 2008. The minimum wage will increase by an additional 25 cents in each of the following two years to $8.00 on July 1, 2009; and $8.25 on July 1, 2010.

My understanding of the issue was that very few actually receive the minimum wage and that most that do receive it are temporary workers (high school students) or those that may not depend on their wages for their livelihood. Exceptions exist and I'm sure many on here will claim they are abundant.

IIRC, here in IL it applies only to people 18 and older, and there are many other exceptions and exclusions from that increase, so it actually only hits a minority of working folks and not millions as Blago would have the citizenry believe.

 

[Martha]

Looks like you $7.50 proponents will get (almost) your way in July 2009 when the Federal min wage goes to $7.25/hr.

My understanding of the issue was that very few actually receive the minimum wage and that most that do receive it are temporary workers (high school students) or those that may not depend on their wages for their livelihood. Exceptions exist and I'm sure many on here will claim they are abundant.

I don't mean to say that raising the min wage won't have spillover effects raising the nominal wage of those making a buck or two more than minimum wage.

From my link above: While controversy about the precise employment effects of the minimum wage continues, research has shown that most of the beneficiariesare adults, most are female, and the vast majority are membersof low-income working families.

 

[HFWR]

I say get rid of it. Those people are making too much already. And let's give the CEOs a raise...

This is sarcasm...

 

[retire@40]

In the case of wages, the market takes care of itself.

I never understood the whole point to the minimum wage since there is a minimum that people will work for anyway. Would anyone in the United States work for 1 penny an hour? There you go.

The minimum wage can only hurt the economy in forcing some employers to pay an artificially high rate per hour for certain jobs. It's just as bad as having a maximum wage.

 

[FUEGO]

From my link above: While controversy about the precise employment effects of the minimum wage continues, research has shown that most of the beneficiariesare adults, most are female, and the vast majority are membersof low-income working families.

Thanks for point that out. I didn't read your link before. I was actually referring to those earning the minimum wage in my earlier post. The quote you provided refers to "beneficiaries" of the min wage - which most likely includes those earning more than min wage but would nevertheless benefit from a "rising tide" in low wage rates.

I noted that when I said "I don't mean to say that raising the min wage won't have spillover effects raising the nominal wage of those making a buck or two more than minimum wage."

 

[ERD50]

Seven-fifty an hour.

http://www.epi.org/minwage/epi_minimum_wage_2006.pdf

Everyone won't be rich and no one thinks so.

The really crazy thing, IMO, is to have a minimum wage and *not* tie it to inflation. I don't understand how anyone can be for something like that, but not throw in an automatic inflation adjustment?

The standard answer is that it is something for politicians to argue about every few years, to distract us from real issues. Could be.

But not to disappoint you, no, I'm not in favor of a minimum wage. I have yet to see a situation where price controls do more good than harm (overall). I noticed the title in your link says 'Hundreds of Economists Say: Raise the Minimum Wage'. But what if Thousands of Economists Say: Eliminate the Minimum Wage? I guess we need a poll?

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

The quote you provided refers to "beneficiaries" of the min wage - which most likely includes those earning more than min wage but would nevertheless benefit from a "rising tide" in low wage rates.

If min wage was $7.50 for example - how do they differentiate between someone making $8.00 and someone making minimum wage plus $0.50?

There is going to be a rising tide effect, I'm sure. I'm not sure anyone could quantify it. And w/o a minimum wage, you would not need to. Nice, pure, free-market numbers to help us make real decisions, unclouded by government interference.

-ERD50

 

[Martha]

There are no free markets. We interfere all the time. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[ERD50]

There are no free markets. We interfere all the time. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Well, I think there is a lot wrong with it (with a few exceptions). Since when did frequency make something right? That seems especially odd coming from a lawyer.

Martha, can you give examples where interfering with free markets has helped overall (not just specific people/groups)?

The exceptions that come to my mind are: pollution controls, and generally things that fall under the 'tragedy of the commons' scenario. Some government regulation seems to be required for the common good. But I think those should be approached carefully, and done in as much of a free market way as possible (tax/fine the pollution, let the free market figure out how to reduce it rather than legislating specific technologies like hybrid cars).

And before anyone throws out that straw man, no, I'm not in favor of govt subsidies or industry specific tax breaks to business. Two wrongs don't make a right.

-ERD50

 

[StJohnsWood]

Who pays minimum wage anyway? Even the McDonalds here in the middle of no where Ohio pays $9.50. You have to pay more to attract people to do the jobs. If you are working for minimum wage your just not trying hard enough. You could find more by one hours worth of hunting.

 

[retire@40]

Who pays minimum wage anyway? Even the McDonalds here in the middle of no where Ohio pays $9.50. You have to pay more to attract people to do the jobs. If you are working for minimum wage your just not trying hard enough. You could find more by one hours worth of hunting.

Ahhh, a fine example of the market taking care of itself.

How many of those employees would be working at McD's if the minimum wage were $25 an hour? Probably none because the wages would not justify opening the store in the first place. Another fine reason to get rid of the minimum wage altogether.

 

[ERD50]

Who pays minimum wage anyway?

I'd have to google to find the link, but I read recently that something like 1.2% of wage earners earn min wage.

My recent experience with this is that two of my kids got jobs in high school. They started out at min wage. One was a small family owned business, the other a small corp. The only way those businesses could afford to pay a higher wage would be to raise prices. Offhand, the money seemed OK for the job requirements. If it wasn't my kids would have looked elsewhere. AFAIAC, restaurant prices (for example) are high enough - I don't see why they should pay bus boys more, if they can get bus boys to do the job at $X.

I'm still waiting to hear someone explain why price fixing is OK. Why would I want the govt to set wages, any more than I would want them to tell business owners what price they should set on the products we buy? What value does that add?

-ERD50