More than 50% of older workers pushed out of work

[meleana]

Is anyone really shocked?

One of the reasons forums like this exist is because of this kind of policy.

Few of us may have been pushed out because of age but I bet a lot of us wondered if they would look for a reason to get rid of the older people.

One thing is that older workers aren't brown-nosing like they might have earlier in their careers.

Younger workers eager to make their mark will stay in the office longer, just to signal that they will endure more BS, if nothing else. They will be cheerleaders for the boss and management and new corporate initiatives.

When the company rolls out some new mission statement or something they're signaling to the public about some new thing about the corporate culture, the older, wiser BS-weary workers who've seen this all before will be cool about it, if not overtly rolling their eyes.

But the younger ones will internalize the lingo and show management how grand this new thing is.

From management's POV, they see older workers who've made a lot of money and other compensation over the years versus younger workers who start out at a lower salary who seem more enthusiastic and wide-eyed.

Of course this contrast is even more pronounced if management has more younger personnel, who are closer in age to the new recruits than the graybeards.

They will deny it but nobody is under illusions. And these days, there's overt hostility from millennials against baby boomers. Some young politicians and political activists have said baby boomers should get out of the way so they can take over.

In the workplace, they see all these deductions from their paychecks, the first time they're making any real money. There's huge cynicisms from those under 40 that they will ever collect SSI or Medicare benefits by the time they're eligible.

So they see people at or within 10 years of SSI or Medicare and there's resentment there as well.

The generational war will only become more pronounced over the next 10-20 years. Age discrimination will only increase when those now under 30 become decision makers in the next couple of decades.

You nailed it exactly!

 

[Amethyst]

Meleana, that sounds awful, like a sweat shop! Was the company struggling, or did they simply hire Catbert as HR director?

This happened to me and some others, but it was not done outright. We were pushed little by little to force us to quit by new management with a sociopath director. Especially small companies- they don't want to pay unemployment claims so they force you to quit instead of firing you. They also don't want any age discrimination lawsuits.


They think you are dead wood and they also look to get rid of you because your salary is higher than bringing in a young one.

I had 3 more years to go until age 65. Ironically my younger replacement only lasted 3 weeks because she could not deal with the jerk in charge and then the idiot had the nerve to call me because he wanted me to come back. Realized after 13 years I had developed an excellent relationship with their clients.


After 13 years there, I left with nothing but my small 401k which was tanking just as I left and had it transferred (after much headache with this company) to my own IRA. No pension, No severance- which they wouldn't have given even if they let me go instead of me resigning. Not the 6 remaining PTO days for the year.No unemployment. Zilch.

Oh, well. I am not going back ever and doubt I will ever work again except maybe per diem. All these companies stink and I have had a lot of jobs in my lifetime.

I might add I was a cheap employee. Had to use my own car in the field as my job involved driving all day. I went through several cars. I was on my husband's health insurance- so they didn't have to pay towards that. They only had 6 holidays per year. They capped my- and others-mid 5 figure salary years ago and took away my yearly incentive bonus plan just a few years after I started. They took away 5 PTO days permanently and capped them. (we had no sick time- it was all bundled as PTO time. (I only called in sick twice in 13 years there). Just a few years ago when I started to take a 2 consecutive week vacation they were actually told me they frowned upon employees taking 2 weeks off in a row! I did not stand for that one! They used me as a courier also to run their errands.

They cut the lunch hour for everyone from 1 hour to 1/2 hour. We used to joke that soon they will make us work for free!

And that was the OLD management- before the Terminator came in!


I don't know how i even held on for the 7 months after the new management started there this past February. I really tried but I just couldn't even make it through the last 3 months of this year- so Sept 21st was my last day.

 

[meleana]

Meleana, that sounds awful, like a sweat shop! Was the company struggling, or did they simply hire Catbert as HR director?

LOL! Well- the healthcare industry is a challenging environment these days. I worked in a radiology center that was a joint venture between the radiology group and a local hospital.Then the doctors sold it to this other entity (though retaining their positions reading the images)- and- yeah- they stuck Catbert in the management job- someone who had also worked for the company as long as me but in a different position. (that's another story- you wouldn't believe it if I told you the entire scoop on this guy).


People who work for larger companies don't realize what it is like to work for small places (not that the big companies are that much better). They even started hiring only part-time or per diem people in order to save expenses over the past few years. They actually would tell the employees they had to work any shift whenever they were told to- even at the last minute. The employees would have to check the schedule every day before they left to see what time they were working the next day.


Just crazy, especially for those with children. Heaven forbid you have plans- an appointment or whatever. Thankfully, I at least didn't have to deal with that or I would have been out of there long ago.


Just found out another long time employee left and starts a new job on Monday. She is in her 40's. I think there are only a few originals left.

 

[Retiree_Having_Fun]

They actually would tell the employees they had to work any shift whenever they were told to- even at the last minute.

This really inspires loyalty to your employer. No wonder young people jump ship every few years. Sounds like a position at Taco Bell.

 

[zippy2020]

Actually, I believe what you described here could indeed be the basis for an age-discrimination lawsuit, if the employee that is forced out is replaced with a younger employee.

Unfortunately, the days of easily proving age discrimination are long gone:

Shown the Door, Older Workers Find Bias Hard to Prove
NY Times Dealbook, 07Aug2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/dealbook/shown-the-door-older-workers-find-bias-hard-to-prove.html

(excerpt)
“Ageism unfortunately remains pervasive in the American work force,” she said. Only two of the cases the E.E.O.C. filed in court last year* involved the federal age discrimination act, according to a list assembled by AARP, the nonprofit older citizens group.
(*out of almost 5,000 filings in 2016, per the article)

They were among a total of only 86 workplace discrimination cases litigated in court last year, AARP found. Few cases are taken to court because such complaints are complicated and expensive; it can take a long time to assemble relevant evidence and testimony.

And a 2009 Supreme Court ruling has made proving age discrimination more difficult legally. In a case brought by the insurance executive Jack Gross, who was among a dozen employees who were demoted, the court overturned an initial ruling favorable to him and imposed a tougher legal standard.

To win, the court said, plaintiffs like Mr. Gross had to prove that age discrimination was the prime, or motivating, reason for demotion or dismissal.

Without action by Congress to shore up the 1967 law, employers seem likely to continue to have an edge. In February, a group of senators, including Robert P. Casey, Democrat of Pennsylvania, and Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, introduced the Protecting Older Workers Against Discrimination Act. But past efforts to strengthen older worker rights have foundered on opposition from business groups, and the current bill is given little chance of passage.

 

[FreeBear]

Recently the Megacorp I work for did a RIF and a buyout for 58 and older/10 years of service. Many that had not kept their skill sets updated were worried about being RIF’d and took the buyout reluctantly. They’re not likely to find technical work that pays well. You’ve got to stay current. Though I do feel bad for the ones that were ‘forced’ out, they didn’t spend the many nights/weekends keeping up, taking challenging assignments, taking training classes, putting in extra time to learn that others like myself had done through the years.

I agree that staying current in your field is critical to making decent bucks and longevity. It's a necessary, but not sufficient condition. A fair amount of "political" ability and plain luck helps.

I rode this rising tide for the first part of my career. It helped that I had a great mentor/boss who put me into high-visibility projects at the right time to look like a hero. My teams and I did stuff no one else wanted to do and succeeded.

My mentor left and his patron (head of our division) lost a huge decade-long political battle for the Big Cheese job. Our entire division was a dead man walking. Also, I had burned out of "going the extra mile" all these years. Got tired of another impossible hill to climb. Fortunately, I could afford to get out and I did.

To reply to the earlier post about rampant offshoring in the IT field ... you are spot on. I lived through both an acquisition of my IT centric employer company by a Megacorp, followed by a spinoff of our business unit to Megacorp B. Before, during and after the multiple phases of downsizing and offshoring chaos, I looked up and at age 59 was amazed that I had survived. Meantime, I saw many many co-workers forced to train their offshore replacements to do their jobs, tolerated by most only to get the paltry "separation bonus". Also as a group manager I was forced to hire IT temp workers here on work visas, because they were cheap to hire and more easily tossed aside when projects completed. I left voluntarily last year at 63.5 age with a bad taste for this type of business.

Yep, did this stuff for a decade. We brought over overseas folks for 1-2 years of training. They got some of the best of the advanced development w*rk around, because they were going to replace us. Most of them were excellent, comparable to the best in the US, but they were paid only 20-30% of the US wage. Over a decade, I trained several generations of my replacements. After training, they stayed a few years at our overseas factory to fulfill their commitment, then left for real money elsewhere. Glad I had an exit strategy; I 'm glad I saw the end near the beginning of my career so that I had a couple of decades to prepare an exit.

Interesting article - many thoughts come to mind - mainly you should look for a job before you need one - speaking for myself after years at the same company you get comfortable- rejoice that you have 4 weeks of vacation- a nice commute- if you want to keep working - if a recruiter calls go for it.
Keep your skills current- my company brought in SAP - I asked for volunteers to go to training- it was like pulling teeth- It was the young guy that went - I tried to get the mainframe guy to go but he wasn’t interested.
The alternative to this is what I did, and most people here did - save a lot and laugh as you leave!

+1 Still laughing


I did both, training and politics, until I hit my "number".

 

[nhcycling]

To reply to the earlier post about rampant offshoring in the IT field ... you are spot on. I lived through both an acquisition of my IT centric employer company by a Megacorp, followed by a spinoff of our business unit to Megacorp B. Before, during and after the multiple phases of downsizing and offshoring chaos, I looked up and at age 59 was amazed that I had survived. Meantime, I saw many many co-workers forced to train their offshore replacements to do their jobs, tolerated by most only to get the paltry "separation bonus". Also as a group manager I was forced to hire IT temp workers here on work visas, because they were cheap to hire and more easily tossed aside when projects completed. I left voluntarily last year at 63.5 age with a bad taste for this type of business.

+1