"NO TRESPASSING" signs help or hinder

[street]

I was wondering if any have any experience with owning property and posting signs for No Trespassing.

The reason for asking would it make you less liable it someone went on your land and got hurt? I own land and do have insurance but I'm not there all the time and I know that people trespass even with signage up.

I'm hoping someone could give me some advise or if they know if signage would help if someone got hurt?

 

[michelek]

I have a little experience with this bc I own several rentals in areas where no trespassing signs are ubiquitous. And we also own some vacant land. In our state, the only way the police can remove an uninvited person from your property is if you have no trespass signs posted. In addition you must register your no trespassing with the city police. Otherwise there is nothing legally you can do if someone comes onto your land.
I don’t imagine that it would have effect on your liability. AFAIK you are always potentially liable for injuries on your property. A good example is the “attractive nuisance” issue. Say you have a large pile of sand in your fenced yard yet a child still climbs over the fence and then gets hurt - guess what/ it’s still your problem. There was a dermatologist who owned a lot in one of our neighborhoods. The local drug dealers had set up an encampment on his lot. I called him to let him know about the drive by drug dealing going on. It was just an investment property for him so he never went there to check on it. He found out the rules about the no trespassing signs the hard way. It took him weeks to get the police to help remove the people. Then they camped in the right of way- bc they didn’t want to relocate their drug business. My agent recommends having strong liability insurance to cover those instances of uninvited guests. Or even better put the land in a separate entity far removed from your personal assets.

 

[Onward]

posting signs for No Trespassing

Hey Mister! What gives you the right?

 

[Just_Steve]

Hey Mister! What gives you the right?

 

[ponyboy]

I dont think signage would make a difference. I dont have a sign on my front door that says "no trespassing." If someone open its, walks inside, falls down and break their leg...would it have made a difference if a sign was on the door?

 

[Jerry1]

No legal eagle here, but I’d put it in the category of, it couldn’t hurt. I would think one aspect of your responsibility would be to have your property line clearly marked. Signs and a fence would seem to be helpful components of establishing your property and that it is private.

 

[pb4uski]

Keep in mind in that in certain jurisdictions there are specific requirements that must be met in order for land to be "legally" posted. For example, around here each no trespassing sign must be signed by the owner within the last 12 months, must be on its own post (not on a tree or utility pole), must be less than x feet apart and the fact that the parcel is posted much be registered with the town. In effect, the requirements are onerous enough that while many properties have no tresspassing signs, in reality very few are legally posted because the requirements are so onerous.

 

[MichaelB]

I was wondering if any have any experience with owning property and posting signs for No Trespassing.

The reason for asking would it make you less liable it someone went on your land and got hurt? I own land and do have insurance but I'm not there all the time and I know that people trespass even with signage up.

I'm hoping someone could give me some advise or if they know if signage would help if someone got hurt?

If you have liability insurance, the policy terms and conditions determine if you are required to post no trespassing signs. Your insurance agent should confirm whether a sign is required.

In many parts of the country, landowners, especially those with rural or undeveloped lots, must post no trespassing signs to prevent people from walking onto their property. This would include hunters, campers, hikers, local kids, homeless, etc. Local authorities might suggest this these signs make their enforcement actions easier. This need depends on state and local law, but in general, it’s not a bad idea.

 

[DFDubb]

I have a little experience with this bc I own several rentals in areas where no trespassing signs are ubiquitous. And we also own some vacant land. In our state, the only way the police can remove an uninvited person from your property is if you have no trespass signs posted. In addition you must register your no trespassing with the city police. Otherwise there is nothing legally you can do if someone comes onto your land.
I don’t imagine that it would have effect on your liability. AFAIK you are always potentially liable for injuries on your property. A good example is the “attractive nuisance” issue. Say you have a large pile of sand in your fenced yard yet a child still climbs over the fence and then gets hurt - guess what/ it’s still your problem. There was a dermatologist who owned a lot in one of our neighborhoods. The local drug dealers had set up an encampment on his lot. I called him to let him know about the drive by drug dealing going on. It was just an investment property for him so he never went there to check on it. He found out the rules about the no trespassing signs the hard way. It took him weeks to get the police to help remove the people. Then they camped in the right of way- bc they didn’t want to relocate their drug business. My agent recommends having strong liability insurance to cover those instances of uninvited guests. Or even better put the land in a separate entity far removed from your personal assets.

Sounds like a delightful area of the country.

 

[street]

Thanks again for your time and response to my question. I have a ranch and of course I have to put up signage because if not posted it is open to hunting, fishing and hiking etc.. I also know that people do come in that I never see because I'm not there all the time. It is rough country and many ways to reach it by foot or by water.

My thread was brought up because of another thread about Umbrella Liability Coverage Insurance. I will be talking to my agent soon about ULC. I'm sure you would advise having ULC for this reason. I do have insurance on the place for liability but need to sit down and take a look at it with agent.

Is there any questions or something I'm over looking that I need to ask the agent?

Thanks

 

[aaronc879]

No legal eagle here, but I’d put it in the category of, it couldn’t hurt. I would think one aspect of your responsibility would be to have your property line clearly marked. Signs and a fence would seem to be helpful components of establishing your property and that it is private.

Agree.

Although having someone who breaks the law by trespassing not being able to sue because of an injury would be much better. They shouldn't get money they should get arrested.

 

[Philliefan33]

I may be in the minority but if I see a no trespassing sign when I’m exploring a new trail/area, I don’t go there. So the signs are useful.

 

[street]

I may be in the minority but if I see a no trespassing sign when I’m exploring a new trail/area, I don’t go there. So the signs are useful.

Yes the honest person wouldn't and I also look at it that way also. If it stops just 1 or 2 from entering property my odds go down for something to happen or something going wrong.

 

[Amethyst]

I grew up in a rural area. We kids were vaguely scared of "NO TRESSPASSING" signs, as if they could jump down and hurt us if we got too close. I knew what one looked like before I could read it.

I may be in the minority but if I see a no trespassing sign when I’m exploring a new trail/area, I don’t go there. So the signs are useful.

 

[Brat]

I have a little experience with this bc I own several rentals in areas where no trespassing signs are ubiquitous. And we also own some vacant land. In our state, the only way the police can remove an uninvited person from your property is if you have no trespass signs posted. In addition you must register your no trespassing with the city police. Otherwise there is nothing legally you can do if someone comes onto your land.
..

Same in Portland and likely statewide.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

This is HIGHLY dependent on where you live...the laws are VERY, VERY different. Plus, just because someone is criminally trespassing doesn't necessarily mean that you are off the hook in a civil matter...also depends on your jurisdiction.

OP: Looks like you might be in Montana. Take a look here...this might be of some assistance.

https://codes.findlaw.com/mt/title-45-crimes/mt-code-ann-sect-45-6-201.html

Oh yeah, I am not your attorney and none of this is legal advice.

 

[street]

ExFlyBoy5 >>>> thanks for that information. I do have signage up and will continue to do so because it does keep most off of the land. I also would think it would be a good defense if some trespasser would go on and something would happen. Not sure it would keep from getting sued but it sure won't hurt having them up.

 

[grasshopper]

Even with a "legal fence" as described by law cattle can't read and the neighboring hikers don't care.

 

[Car-Guy]

In Texas (and a number of other states) you can just use purple paint instead of no-trespassing signs. (No, it's not because Texans can't read ) There are actually a couple of paint manufacturers that specifically make "Purple No Trespassing" spray paint.

See Texas Law is HB 793, under Texas Penal Code 30.05, for details.

I actually use it myself on an "open" section of my property that's not fenced. I just paint a strip every 1000' on a tree or post. Where I do have fence lines and rural gates, I use the traditional no trespassing signs. Around here, everyone knows the meaning of both.

 

[braumeister]

No, it's not because Texans can't read

... he claimed.

 

[Car-Guy]

... he claimed.

 

[Cayman]

Thanks again for your time and response to my question. I have a ranch and of course I have to put up signage because if not posted it is open to hunting, fishing and hiking etc.. I also know that people do come in that I never see because I'm not there all the time. It is rough country and many ways to reach it by foot or by water.

My thread was brought up because of another thread about Umbrella Liability Coverage Insurance. I will be talking to my agent soon about ULC. I'm sure you would advise having ULC for this reason. I do have insurance on the place for liability but need to sit down and take a look at it with agent.

Is there any questions or something I'm over looking that I need to ask the agent?

Thanks

You're asking good questions, thank you. I find it very helpful to know what my liability exposure is, and make sure that the amount of liability insurance I carry covers my exposure. I'm not suggesting insuring to your net worth, but rather insuring your exposure. Several posts in the liability thread mentioned insuring to your exposure, and other posters focused on insuring to your net worth. I think it's important to make the distinction and be sure that you are protected to the degree you need.



If you have $5M liability coverage, $5M in assets that can be taken in a legal settlement AND you owe $8M, there's a $3M gap you must fund. Even with the $5M policy.



I'd want to know the likelihood of a gap and then determine whether I want to cover it with (a) insurance or (b) my own money, or (c) reduce/eliminate my exposure in some way. Only you can decide how much insurance you need. But I'd want to know my exposure... not just purchase a policy in the amount of my net worth.

 

[audreyh1]

You're asking good questions, thank you. I find it very helpful to know what my liability exposure is, and make sure that the amount of liability insurance I carry covers my exposure. I'm not suggesting insuring to your net worth, but rather insuring your exposure. Several posts in the liability thread mentioned insuring to your exposure, and other posters focused on insuring to your net worth. I think it's important to make the distinction and be sure that you are protected to the degree you need.

If you have $5M liability coverage, $5M in assets that can be taken in a legal settlement AND you owe $8M, there's a $3M gap you must fund. Even with the $5M policy.

I'd want to know the likelihood of a gap and then determine whether I want to cover it with (a) insurance or (b) my own money, or (c) reduce/eliminate my exposure in some way. Only you can decide how much insurance you need. But I'd want to know my exposure... not just purchase a policy in the amount of my net worth.

And how do you determine your exposure?

 

[JoeWras]

And how do you determine your exposure?

Swimming pools, trampolines, weapons, high risk driving, etc.? I guess?

 

[audreyh1]

Swimming pools, trampolines, weapons, high risk driving, etc.? I guess?

How do you add that up to come up with a $M figure?