Protesting against Freedom - Rally against Gay marriage.............

[justin]

does "jews being slaughtered in Europe" count as someone mentioning hitler? Is this thread over?

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I'm just indifferent.

no kidding. so's my uncle. i would rather you hate us.

 

[justin]

no kidding. so's my uncle. i would rather you hate us.

?

I'm not your uncle. He sounds like he isn't indifferent.

It isn't really clear to me why you want me to hate you/gays in general. I don't know you personally, but you seem to identify a lot with your sexual orientation. Why does it bother you so much that it is a non-issue for me?

 

[Cut-Throat]

?

Why does it bother you so much that it is a non-issue for me?

I'm sure that Civil rights in the 60's and Womens rights in the 20s would have been a non-issue for you also. As long as you're a white man why should you care?

 

[Jarhead*]

Well said.  - Someone else once said something to the effect of:

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

Bush made this statement prior to "Shock and Awe."

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I'm sure that Civil rights in the 60's and Womens rights in the 20s would have been a non-issue for you also. As long as you're a white man why should you care?

it's like being a woman and watching men tell me what i can and can't do with my own body. oh, wait, it is like being a woman and watching men tell me what i can and can't do with my own body.

but, you know, it's really time for one more song...

Must've Been Drunk

I woke up in the morning with you wrapped inside my arms
Last night the tent got cold so we just snuggled to keep warm
I must admit that you had started feeling pretty good
And I was feeling you a little better than I should

Must've been drunk
For us to carry on this way
You don't talk like Mister Rogers
I don't look like Doris Day
Now maybe it's the wine and weed
That made us act so queer
Or maybe homosexuals have bottled up this beer

My girlfriend she's suspicious, she must know there's something wrong
'Cause ever since that night my need for her is twice as strong
And we've avoided sleeping out or wrestling since then
But deep inside I feel this need to hold you once again

Must've been drunk
For us to carry on this way
We don't have the right equipment
For the games we seem to play
Now maybe it's the wine and weed
That made us act so queer
Or maybe homosexuals have bottled up this beer

Now you have long been married and you've even got a kid
And you swear your wife feels better than your buddies ever did
But me, I've found the flaw in our old denial game
I've slept with men cold sober and it feels good just the same

Must've been drunk
For us to carry on this way
I swear God wouldn't let a former altar boy be gay
Now maybe it's the wine and weed
That made us act so queer
Or maybe homosexuals have bottled up this beer

music & lyrics ©1983 Larry Havluck
Published by Will Travel Music

 

[haha]

Bush made this statement prior to "Shock and Awe."

And Edmund Burke before him. I doubt however that issues of gay marriage were what either of them had in mind by evil.

Ha

 

[justin]

I'm sure that Civil rights in the 60's and Womens rights in the 20s would have been a non-issue for you also. As long as you're a white man why should you care?

Why does it have to be a white thing?

Why should I care about Civil rights and women's rights? These issues strike much closer to home for me. I have a wife and daughter. Both of which are (1) female and (2) minority. Most of my family are either female or minority (or both). At one point in time, women and minorities were disenfranchised. Disenfranchised from society, from politics, from voting, from business, from education, and the list goes on.

To place the struggles that homosexuals face today on an equal footing with the struggles faced in the past by women and minorities seems disingenuous. I view the gay community as well-connected politically, socially, and educationally.

I have more important things in my life to be concerned about than the gay marriage issue. That is why it is a non-issue to me.

 

[REWahoo]

CFB, this didn't work. Maybe you should include Hitler in a Kayak holding a Nazi flag.

 

[sgeeeee]

CFB, this didn't work.  Maybe you should include Hitler in a Kayak holding a Nazi flag.

I want to point out that I have respected the OP in a kayak signal eventhough it has been very difficult. Some things are sacred.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yeah no kidding. Ormanned, dr. philled, OPie in a kayak, C-T and his illegally resized fish being eaten by jaws, several pizzas on heads, and the godwin rule all invoked to no effect.

I'd use boobies, but I suspect that will also have little effect on this line of discussion.

Let me think...if anyone smells wood burning, its just the thought process.

 

[Cut-Throat]

To place the struggles that homosexuals face today on an equal footing with the struggles faced in the past by women and minorities seems disingenuous. I view the gay community as well-connected politically, socially, and educationally.

I have more important things in my life to be concerned about than the gay marriage issue. That is why it is a non-issue to me.

Obviously someone opposed the civil rights of Blacks and Women 50 years ago, otherwise there would not have been a problem. Do you think that discrimination was just an evil force of earlier times? Or do you think that you might be quilty of the same thing?

 

[REWahoo]

I want to point out that I have respected the OP in a kayak signal eventhough it has been very difficult. Some things are sacred.

Your self-restraint has been remarkable. But if someone had mentioned paying off a mortgage in one of those posts, the results would have been much different.

 

[Danny]

Yeah no kidding. Ormanned, dr. philled, OPie in a kayak, C-T and his illegally resized fish being eaten by jaws, several pizzas on heads, and the godwin rule all invoked to no effect.

I'd use boobies, but I suspect that will also have little effect on this line of discussion.

Let me think...if anyone smells wood burning, its just the thought process.

DAda DaDa DADA dada dAdA daDA

 

[Jarhead*]

And Edmund Burke before him. I doubt however that issues of gay marriage were what either of them had in mind by evil.

Ha

Just teasing Cutthroat on that one. 8)

 

[justin]

Obviously someone opposed the civil rights of Blacks and Women 50 years ago, otherwise there would not have been a problem. Do you think that discrimination was just an evil force of earlier times? Or do you think that you might be quilty of the same thing?

I am very quilty (in a "I still like females" sort of way). At this point, I think I'm going to go back to my old racist sexist homophobic bigot ways and I'll leave you to fight the good fight.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

I haven't heard a single person propose outlawing heteosexual marriage.

I did so in this very thread. 3rd post. Where do all these anti-gay-marriage-constitutional-amendment advocates offending the sensibilities of good folk come from? That's right, straight marriages. The way forward seems clear to me.

(Okay, maybe I was being sarcastic.)

does "jews being slaughtered in Europe" count as someone mentioning hitler? Is this thread over?

Well, the kayaks and food-on-heads came first, and that was the early-retirement.org defacto signal the thread is over.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Dang, and I had a great idea for a thread-stopper...

 

[sgeeeee]

Your self-restraint has been remarkable.  But if someone had mentioned paying off a mortgage in one of those posts, the results would have been much different.

Only if they were misguided.

 

[laurence]

Missed out most of the end hear b/c I was flying home, but to end on a happy note, did anyone notice that while this is a very volatile topic, and several people had impassioned views on opposite sides, the tone of this thread stayed pretty darn civil? NFB or yahoo would have seen a total flame war several pages ago! Nice job, people! and now to end this thread again, Nazi, Hitler, Kayak...

"Take your mind back - I don’t know when
Sometime when it always seemed
To be just us and them
Girls that wore pink
And boys that wore blue
Boys that always grew up better men
Than me and you

What’s a man now - what’s a man mean
Is he rough or is he rugged
Is he cultural and clean
Now it’s all change - it’s got to change more
’cause we think it’s getting better
But nobody’s really sure

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

See the nice boys - dancing in pairs
Golden earring golden tan
Blow-wave in the hair
Sure they’re all straight - straight as a line
All the gays are macho
Can’t you see their leather shine

You don’t want to sound dumb - don’t want to offend
So don’t call me a faggot
Not unless you are a friend
Then if you’re tall and handsome and strong
You can wear the uniform and I could play along

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

Time to get scared - time to change plan
Don’t know how to treat a lady
Don’t know how to be a man
Time to admit - what you call defeat
’cause there’s women running past you now
And you just drag your feet

Man makes a gun - man goes to war
Man can kill and man can drink
And man can take a whore
Kill all the blacks - kill all the reds
And if there’s war between the sexes
Then there’ll be no people left

And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are"

-Joel Jackson

 

[starry night]

I don't know about all states, but it is my understanding that most states don't require any sort of religious ceremony at all.  Justices of the Peace, magistrates, and/or judges can usually perform marriages in most states.  The "European" model, as you have described it, seems to be predominately available in most/all states in the U.S. 

Justin, That is my whole point -- that a marriage is a legal action rightfully APART from any need, desire, choice to include any religious aspect. There IS NO religious imperative to a legal civil marraige, AS IT SHOULD BE.

What I fear we are seeing now is the effort to interject a moral imperative, such as Constit. Amendm., that lets religious fundamentalists impose their opinions on a very simple civil right.

All the while, the religious-minded can continue to enjoy their ADDED BLISS of hosting whatever big wedding blow-out they wish, with priests, communions, the whole enchilada. It has nothing to do with a legal marriage, but lets them feel holy and happy and married in the eyes of their God and with the endorsement of their church (but not City Hall).

You misunderstood me if you thought I was saying that marriage consisted of BOTH these aspects. It is legally ONLY the civil action. The ceremonial aspect (as it is practiced in Europe, as well) is completely OPTIONAL.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I dont like broccolli. I think broccolli eaters shouldnt be allowed to get married, because that would harm the sanctity of my marriage.

The thought of them sitting there together, linked in the eyes of the county and the lord, eating that...that... broccolli!

I just cant look at my wife any more. Its just not the same.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

It is legally ONLY the civil action. The ceremonial aspect (as it is practiced in Europe, as well) is completely OPTIONAL.

That's my perspective, but I would phrase it differently. There is a legal marriage that deals with taxes, employer benefits, community property, child custody and other important family rights, and then there is the religious/spiritual aspect where the marriage is witnessed, approved, blessed, supported and in some cases enforced by the church, God, friends, family, community and whatnot. (Different beliefs will vary.) Depending on who you are the spiritual aspect may be more important than the legal aspect or vice versa.

I have no issue with how churches define their requirements and meaning of marriage. Well, I mean I would not demand that they echo my views at least. But further narrowing the laws I have a big problem with. I could possibly go along with changing the wording of the legal aspect to "civil union" or "domestic partnership" and leave the concept of what marriage is to the spiritual venue of the couple, but I'm not too fond of "separate but equal" schemes where there is a hetero legal marriage and then the "other' plan.

=====

Do horses eat broccolli?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

No, they do not.

Here's another funny question. A number of countries around the world allow gay marriage. If all the gay couples in the US go get married in another country and then come back here, has the sanctity of marriage still been ruined?

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

you seem to identify a lot with your sexual orientation.

would you even consider making such a statement to any of the str8 guys discussing boobs, beavers or squirrel nuts?

and the musical continues...

Homophobia

There was a man who took a stand to try to shed some light
He said that sexual preference is a basic human right
The school board laid him off and said the budget was too tight
But it sounds suspiciously like homophobia to me

A woman with a child of six could find no place to live
And finally her lover said, "Why don't you just move in?"
The landlord made excuses and raised the rent again
Sounds suspiciously like homophobia to me

It happens every day
No matter what they say
It's just because you're gay
Homophobia

It happens everywhere
You know it's out of fear
It's just because you're queer
Homophobia

Some liberals say that it's okay for people to be queer
As long as they don't "flaunt" it, but it seems to me my dear
That we've seen straight folks flaunt their sexuality for years
Sounds suspiciously like homophobia to me

There was a man who shot our first gay supervisor dead
The Twinkies made him do it, that's what his attorney said
He could have gotten life, but he got seven years instead
Sounds suspiciously like homophobia to me

It happens all the time
It's not considered crime
It's just another sign of
Homophobia

the chorus: ho ho homophobia ho ho homophobia ho ho homophobia, homophobiaaaaaah

music & lyrics ©1985 Ron Romanovsky & Paul Phillips
Published by Bodacious Music (ASCAP)

edit: i forgot the chorus