Our family did the same years ago. We realized that we all had the wherewithal to get the things we need for ourselves, and none of us are big consumers, or in the accumulation faze. Now we spend time together, and give to charities. We will sometimes give consumable gifts but there is no expectation of mandatory gifts and no guilt. I find this makes the holidays much less stressful and refocuses the holidays on friends and family rather than things.
Sharing 23 years of Frugal Retirement
- Thread starter imoldernu
- Start date
Our family did the same years ago. We realized that we all had the wherewithal to get the things we need for ourselves, and none of us are big consumers, or in the accumulation faze. Now we spend time together, and give to charities. We will sometimes give consumable gifts but there is no expectation of mandatory gifts and no guilt. I find this makes the holidays much less stressful and refocuses the holidays on friends and family rather than things.
Stopping by to share a post from another site, that struck a chord with me.
In a way, it has to do with my own thinking on a two phase retirement, but with a little different outlook on the cost.
In some previous posts, I indicated that the later stages of retirement would be lower in cost, and that this would allow for spending more in the early years. Now I am not so sure. Since DW and I are in relatively good health, and are, in fact spending much less as we age, our current situation appears to be safe and security, well in hand. The linked post made me think a little more about what could easily happen to change this.
In particular, the numbers that refer to a $30K annual expense... ie. "frugal" retirement, may be low for the later years, when more help may be needed.
I would be remiss in not passing this on, so just a little update for thought and/or discussion.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mvdg1NDz6E6TbAOAc3NCab182VEIAB8A_e3F6TaSEjI/pub
In a way, it has to do with my own thinking on a two phase retirement, but with a little different outlook on the cost.
In some previous posts, I indicated that the later stages of retirement would be lower in cost, and that this would allow for spending more in the early years. Now I am not so sure. Since DW and I are in relatively good health, and are, in fact spending much less as we age, our current situation appears to be safe and security, well in hand. The linked post made me think a little more about what could easily happen to change this.
In particular, the numbers that refer to a $30K annual expense... ie. "frugal" retirement, may be low for the later years, when more help may be needed.
I would be remiss in not passing this on, so just a little update for thought and/or discussion.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mvdg1NDz6E6TbAOAc3NCab182VEIAB8A_e3F6TaSEjI/pub
Siestatime
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 63
The link below may throw the discussion in a completely new direction, but serious scientific research, funded by some of the richest titans of Silicon Valley, are searching for the secrets to healthy longevity, with health well into 11 or 12 decades possible in the near future. One well funded researcher states that the 'first person to live to 1,000 is probably alive today.'
All the money in the world is useless without health. If it's possible to stay healthy for many decades after retirement, planning for a longer life becomes a new challenge for many young FIRE wannabes.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/11/-sp-live-forever-extend-life-calico-google-longevity
Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
All the money in the world is useless without health. If it's possible to stay healthy for many decades after retirement, planning for a longer life becomes a new challenge for many young FIRE wannabes.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/11/-sp-live-forever-extend-life-calico-google-longevity
Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
Saw the article and was disgusted by it. I recommend reading this book before getting suckered into "breaking headlines" like that one:
"Wrong: Why experts* keep failing us--and how to know when not to trust them *Scientists, finance wizards, doctors, relationship gurus, celebrity CEOs, ... consultants, health officials and more"
By David H. Freeman
HFWR
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
What's the SWR for a sixty-year retirement?
Sent from my iCouch using Early Retirement Forum
Sent from my iCouch using Early Retirement Forum
donheff
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Sounds good. I downloaded it from the library. Thanks.
I am linking the article about "Still Alice", because it covered a number of bits and pieces about Alzheimers, that most of us intuitively know, but which spelled out some parts of "onset" that I and my DW are dealing with today.
Somewhere in this thread, I have mentioned the likelyhood of facing a progressive loss of memory, and normal functioning. I have been keeping notes on those parts of the progression that are, bit by bit, beginning to affect our lives. It's not as scary as I thought it would be, but is, no doubt, a work in progress. Somewhere along the way some of our members have shared personal experiences with parents or friends, that were very predictive of our own situation... ie. that to a casual onlooker, there would be no trace of memory problems. Only after a longer period, is it obvious that there lapses... of appropriate response, or memory, especialy of proper names and places.
I hope to eventually share some of my own biographical progress in some detail, but for now, don't feel that it is debilitating, except for the nuisance of remembering names of "things" "persons" and "places". As mentioned in the article, digging for the memory is an adaptive process of association (using Google) or doing the sneaky roundabout of having the person I'm speaking with, coming up with the missing name.
I've shared my concern with my family, but as yet, they haven't taken it seriously. Am hoping for a slow progression... maybe years, and truth be told, haven't looked at it as a big problem. Life goes on... if anything, a little more happily. Less to worry about.
Anyway, here's the link. I think it's a worthwhile read.
'Still Alice' highlights often hidden toll of Alzheimer's - NY Daily News
Somewhere in this thread, I have mentioned the likelyhood of facing a progressive loss of memory, and normal functioning. I have been keeping notes on those parts of the progression that are, bit by bit, beginning to affect our lives. It's not as scary as I thought it would be, but is, no doubt, a work in progress. Somewhere along the way some of our members have shared personal experiences with parents or friends, that were very predictive of our own situation... ie. that to a casual onlooker, there would be no trace of memory problems. Only after a longer period, is it obvious that there lapses... of appropriate response, or memory, especialy of proper names and places.
I hope to eventually share some of my own biographical progress in some detail, but for now, don't feel that it is debilitating, except for the nuisance of remembering names of "things" "persons" and "places". As mentioned in the article, digging for the memory is an adaptive process of association (using Google) or doing the sneaky roundabout of having the person I'm speaking with, coming up with the missing name.
I've shared my concern with my family, but as yet, they haven't taken it seriously. Am hoping for a slow progression... maybe years, and truth be told, haven't looked at it as a big problem. Life goes on... if anything, a little more happily. Less to worry about.
Anyway, here's the link. I think it's a worthwhile read.
'Still Alice' highlights often hidden toll of Alzheimer's - NY Daily News
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Thank you, you're posts are always appreciated.
My father had the same fears a Alzheimers runs strong in his family. Like you, he sometimes has trouble remembering names or something he is going to say, but he is not in the least bit debilitated. In fact, he's doing so well cognitively we're not even sure he has it.
My father had the same fears a Alzheimers runs strong in his family. Like you, he sometimes has trouble remembering names or something he is going to say, but he is not in the least bit debilitated. In fact, he's doing so well cognitively we're not even sure he has it.
kaudrey
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I think this is a good point. My parents and my aunt/uncle are potential case studies for this (my aunt/uncle already there, my parents may head that way).
My uncle is 86 and suffering from Alzheimer's and back issues. My aunt won't put him in a home (although he really should go), but pays for almost 24 hour at home care. Her costs right now are quite high due to that. However, in the previous 3 years or so, costs were quite low, because he couldn't really go out much and couldn't travel anymore, but didn't need much care other than my aunt.
My mother is not in the best of health, and started showing signs of Alzheimer's a few years ago (she is 77 now). Not too bad yet, but she forgets some things and gets a little confused at times. She also has incurable cancer in her spine that is slow-growing but causes her enough pain that she is mostly housebound. My dad says they are living on SS and his small pension right now, even though they have plenty of money, just because she can't do much. He golfs and volunteers and takes care of her, but that doesn't cost much.
If my mother eventually goes to AL or a nursing home, costs will skyrocket. I think for many people with FIRE-level assets, they might have a U-shaped spending curve over their retirement as they go from healthy to slowing down to needing expensive care.
ArkTinkerer
Full time employment: Posting here.
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- Messages
- 584
I think this is true for most people now. Unless you pass away suddenly you will have much increased spending at end-of-life. I recall the reports that had people saying we were spending too much on seniors in the last days but it really can't be that unusual. Think about it--even someone who lived all their life in great health will use a huge amount of health care $$$ if they have a stroke, heart attack, or even an accident that puts them in intensive care for their last few days on earth. I suspect this is much more common dying somewhere and being pronounced dead in-situ without being trucked to hospital and having all sorts of life saving procedures attempted. One side effect of improved health care will be the increased costs of our final years as the items that use to kill us outright have become chronic conditions.
10-4 on "simplification"
Thanks for many good comments and advice. I only have SS but my wife works as a massage therapist
. My theory of "wealth" for a long time is that "there are two ways to be rich, one is by having a lot of income, and the other is by having no debt". I grew up poor, monetarily, but rich in love and values. I didn't learn about saving and investing, etc. until halfway through my adult life. There were jobs I had with good 401k programs which I invested in but either withdrew to meet a need or because they were going down as much as they were up. I've also made a couple of good real estate deals along with several sour ones. Anyway, I decided several years ago that I was much better at being frugal than making money so I bought a place cheap, built a house with help from my friends, and paid off the property last year and quit my job this year. My wife pays for the food and her school bill and I pay for the few other monthly bills. We also help out our son who is in college. I earn a bit by selling CDs, playing a gig, or giving a music lesson but usually spend it on more gear. My SS is only $820, but with no debt it's OK. I agree with keeping 5k for emergencies. With low income I signed up for health care for free, but we haven't used it much because we haven't had to, and wonder if we do whether the feds are going to want it back. I've been working on our property, 2.3 acres, preping for fire season, and starting a garden, etc. We have wood for heat and don't need AC. I have had a Vanguard account and will check out the Wellesley investment. I'm hesitant about putting money in an IRA again because now I know it could be lost there, too. I bought a little boat a few weeks ago which I plan to use a lot this summer. I hope I've covered all your questions and comments. I still welcome your advice. Oh, I created an invention with the help on the engineering dept of my alma mater but haven't had enough money to patent and market it. If any one has an interest in helping me with that, let me know. Have a wonderful, blessed day!
Thanks for many good comments and advice. I only have SS but my wife works as a massage therapist
. My theory of "wealth" for a long time is that "there are two ways to be rich, one is by having a lot of income, and the other is by having no debt". I grew up poor, monetarily, but rich in love and values. I didn't learn about saving and investing, etc. until halfway through my adult life. There were jobs I had with good 401k programs which I invested in but either withdrew to meet a need or because they were going down as much as they were up. I've also made a couple of good real estate deals along with several sour ones. Anyway, I decided several years ago that I was much better at being frugal than making money so I bought a place cheap, built a house with help from my friends, and paid off the property last year and quit my job this year. My wife pays for the food and her school bill and I pay for the few other monthly bills. We also help out our son who is in college. I earn a bit by selling CDs, playing a gig, or giving a music lesson but usually spend it on more gear. My SS is only $820, but with no debt it's OK. I agree with keeping 5k for emergencies. With low income I signed up for health care for free, but we haven't used it much because we haven't had to, and wonder if we do whether the feds are going to want it back. I've been working on our property, 2.3 acres, preping for fire season, and starting a garden, etc. We have wood for heat and don't need AC. I have had a Vanguard account and will check out the Wellesley investment. I'm hesitant about putting money in an IRA again because now I know it could be lost there, too. I bought a little boat a few weeks ago which I plan to use a lot this summer. I hope I've covered all your questions and comments. I still welcome your advice. Oh, I created an invention with the help on the engineering dept of my alma mater but haven't had enough money to patent and market it. If any one has an interest in helping me with that, let me know. Have a wonderful, blessed day!A quarterly bump.
Some current threads... one, about overstating retirement needs, and another about how to invest a $24 million dollar windfall, reminded me that it was time for my annual "how much can I spend?" checkup.
Just one man's look at retirement and spending, from a simplistic view, and based on expectations for the future. The checkup assumes personal retirement success, not leaving an inheritance, and spending the later years in a slow down mode.
It uses a nominal starting point of age 65 and is family based, but any amount and any age can be used, but younger ages would have to be adjusted for the Social Security effect.
The formula, and two examples.
......................................................................................................
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security
Pension
Annuity
Invesment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
Other
=Total annual income stream
Net worth:
Savings
Home
Investment dollars
Annuity surrender value
Cash value life insurance
All assets which have a value that can be converted to cash (liquid)
=Total Net Worth $'s
Life expectancy years:
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. (Life expectancy tables)
= How much you can spend this year.
.........................................................................................................
Example #1
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security $25,000
Pension $12,000
Annuity $3,000
Investment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
$500,000 X 3% $15000
Other $0
=Total annual income stream $58,000
Net worth:
Savings $50,000
Home $250,000
Investment dollars $500,000
Annuity surrender value $25,000
Cash value life insurance $0
All assets which have a value that can be converted to cash (liquid) $75,000
=Total Net Worth $'s $900,000
Life expectancy years: 18
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. $50,000
How much you can spend this year. $58,000 +$50,000 equals $108,000.
............................................................................................................
Example #2
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security $25,000
Pension $0
Annuity $0
Invesment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
$150,000 X 3% $4,500
Other
=Total annual income stream $29,500
Net worth:
Savings $25,000
Home $150,000
Investment dollars $150,000
Annuity surrender value $0
Cash value life insurance $0
All assets which have a value that can be converted to
cash (liquid) $30,000
=Total Net Worth $355,000
Life expectancy years: 18
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. $20,000
How much you can spend this year. $29,500 +$20,000
equals $49,500.
..........................................................................................................
Sooo.... not a plan, not a projection, not a success percentage, but a way to look at how well your plan is working. Can you spend more? Should you spend less? Age 65 is not a good time to start over.
I share my plan with my DW, and so far, without even trying, we're far ahead of our original plan which was made 26 years ago. It's a simple way to see the actual numbers... totals, not piecemeal. A substantial unexpected expense, such as a $20K new roof, shows in THAT year... but over the longer haul averages out. No nitty gritty... net worth, income flow and spend down.
After developing the initial major numbers... net worth, income flow, Social Security, liquid assets etc. and becoming comfortable with the plan, it's easy to adjust for major changes... resizing your home, extended vacation, one time medical or unplanned expenses and shifts in the position of the assets... savings to investment, buying a car etc,.
Some current threads... one, about overstating retirement needs, and another about how to invest a $24 million dollar windfall, reminded me that it was time for my annual "how much can I spend?" checkup.
Just one man's look at retirement and spending, from a simplistic view, and based on expectations for the future. The checkup assumes personal retirement success, not leaving an inheritance, and spending the later years in a slow down mode.
It uses a nominal starting point of age 65 and is family based, but any amount and any age can be used, but younger ages would have to be adjusted for the Social Security effect.
The formula, and two examples.
......................................................................................................
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security
Pension
Annuity
Invesment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
Other
=Total annual income stream
Net worth:
Savings
Home
Investment dollars
Annuity surrender value
Cash value life insurance
All assets which have a value that can be converted to cash (liquid)
=Total Net Worth $'s
Life expectancy years:
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. (Life expectancy tables)
= How much you can spend this year.
.........................................................................................................
Example #1
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security $25,000
Pension $12,000
Annuity $3,000
Investment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
$500,000 X 3% $15000
Other $0
=Total annual income stream $58,000
Net worth:
Savings $50,000
Home $250,000
Investment dollars $500,000
Annuity surrender value $25,000
Cash value life insurance $0
All assets which have a value that can be converted to cash (liquid) $75,000
=Total Net Worth $'s $900,000
Life expectancy years: 18
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. $50,000
How much you can spend this year. $58,000 +$50,000 equals $108,000.
............................................................................................................
Example #2
Current annual retirement income expectations and amount you can spend this year.
Income streams:
Social Security $25,000
Pension $0
Annuity $0
Invesment earnings (Investment $'s X estimated % return)
$150,000 X 3% $4,500
Other
=Total annual income stream $29,500
Net worth:
Savings $25,000
Home $150,000
Investment dollars $150,000
Annuity surrender value $0
Cash value life insurance $0
All assets which have a value that can be converted to
cash (liquid) $30,000
=Total Net Worth $355,000
Life expectancy years: 18
Net worth divided by Life expectancy years. $20,000
How much you can spend this year. $29,500 +$20,000
equals $49,500.
..........................................................................................................
Sooo.... not a plan, not a projection, not a success percentage, but a way to look at how well your plan is working. Can you spend more? Should you spend less? Age 65 is not a good time to start over.
I share my plan with my DW, and so far, without even trying, we're far ahead of our original plan which was made 26 years ago. It's a simple way to see the actual numbers... totals, not piecemeal. A substantial unexpected expense, such as a $20K new roof, shows in THAT year... but over the longer haul averages out. No nitty gritty... net worth, income flow and spend down.
After developing the initial major numbers... net worth, income flow, Social Security, liquid assets etc. and becoming comfortable with the plan, it's easy to adjust for major changes... resizing your home, extended vacation, one time medical or unplanned expenses and shifts in the position of the assets... savings to investment, buying a car etc,.
Free To Canoe
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I have used and like your spending estimate method. It's beauty is in it's simplicity.
It is a bit harder to use when your income (SS) hasn't started yet but not impossible. It is as good or better than more sophisticated methods IMHO.
It is a bit harder to use when your income (SS) hasn't started yet but not impossible. It is as good or better than more sophisticated methods IMHO.
imoldernu - Mine is very similar except
1) I do not count my house or my lake house
2) I use a 20 yr. budget (hopefully travel yrs.) and I have about 400k left at the end of the 20 yr period. (based on zero return) and the 2 houses.
I saved way to much and now despite what I consider a large travel budget,
according to your way of thinking I could spend a little more than double of
my current budget.
good time to Reevaluate
thanks - another great post.
1) I do not count my house or my lake house
2) I use a 20 yr. budget (hopefully travel yrs.) and I have about 400k left at the end of the 20 yr period. (based on zero return) and the 2 houses.
I saved way to much and now despite what I consider a large travel budget,
according to your way of thinking I could spend a little more than double of
my current budget.
good time to Reevaluate
thanks - another great post.
Three years and one month later
Bump! Time for an update.
If there's one thing I've learned about growing older, it is much better than the alternative. This will probably be too long for most.
For starters, in the older levels of the senior community maybe ages 70+, the first thing I've noticed is that there is a very, very wide difference in activity levels... some because of health, but others, a matter of choice. Yes... one of DW's friends is 91... and is never home. Out to eat, visiting children, playing bridge in tournaments, or even more likely.. taking the gambling bus, out to the river casinos... an hour away...
On the other hand, next door neighbor is 84... reasonably healthy, but enjoys her home, and lives quite independently, but trips away from home are just to help her grown children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.
Others travel at age 85, and others never leave their house or apartment in our CCRC..
All kinds and everyone different.
So entering the 80th year, what do we do?
First, we are reasonably healthy... some of the normal ailment progressions of old age... arthritis, some hearing impairment, loss of muscle strength, Flomax, UTI's, and always... taking more time to get out of a chair, up from the floor (when fixing things). We walk the mall for some exercise, but never enough.
Other things:
We were very social as a couple in our previous senior communities, but not so much any more. The young Florida active communities had large rec halls or clubhouses, and parties, cookouts and entertainment were a constant, almost everyday activity. We could not do this today. One major activity is enough. So... we spend a lot of time watching TV, and much too much time on the computer.
For me, browsing the web is a dream come true. Virtually no Email as most of our closest friends have either passed, or are far away and living their own lives. Email with our kids, but just enough to stay in touch...
I love to explore history, geography, politics, medicine... and everything in "today's" news. I've even learned a tiny bit about money, though it no longer seems important. More fun comes from studying the economy, and the macro view of the world... with an eye to the neartime future of the markets.
An update on the Alzheimers... A little hard to quantify. Pretty much what you've heard, but now it's personal, and I am able to look at specifics... Surely boring to most, but for whatever purpose, some 1st person observations.
The last thing I want is a doctor's diagnosis. To what purpose? A few months delay of symptoms? No! the kiss of death... no driving, and a branding that will last for the remaining days or years.
Memory... mostly short term, like "what did I do yesterday?" Actually unimportant.
Short attention span... on the way to the car to get something out of the trunk, decide to check the wiper fluid. Often ending up in another room and thinking "why did I come here?"
Names... I'd say names and faces, but in my adult life I've been cursed with Prosopagnosia, so ths newer problem is names. Names of people, but now... and more often:
Proper Names names... things, places, and even worse:
Dictionary words. The computer is the workaround for this problem when alone, but when in company of person who understand... a brief pause that gives them a chance to fill in the "word" without a major problem or embarassment.
Some workarounds that have helped:
Reserved places... Now, every thing has a place. Kitchen cabinets, pantry... clothes closets, garage shelves etc. Always a work in progress. Very important.
Habits... a bit more "iffy"... but seemingly unimportant things like looking in the mirror before leaving the house... shave? clothing? zipper? This may sound silly, but it's a must!. The other habits are (for both of us) first thing in the morning. To do's on the calendar, Date, Day of the week, expected weather, and maybe meals.
Have discussed the Alzheimer's with all of my kids, and finally convinced them to understand that it's happening. I still become angry when people say... "Oh that's normal... everyone forgets... you don't have Alzheimers." Knowing and admitting reduces the stress that comes from others discussing it behind your back, and usually trying to handle an AZ moment with kid gloves.
So how has life changed?
We don't go out to eat very often. Usually only with friends or our kids. I think we enjoy eating at home, at our own pace... maybe in the eliving room watching TV... Dessert at any time... Lunch between 11 and 3, dinner between 4 and 8... maybe together, maybe alone... whatever!
DW has decided that our 15 years of living at Woodhaven is "camping" and she doesn't want to do that any more. Except when the kids come to visit, Woodhaven is out of the question. Now... that doesn't apply to me, so we amicably agree to be apart for three or four days at a time during the spring, summer and fall... when I go to WH alone to bike, canoe, and commune with nature. A short half hour drive away from our home in Peru, it's an easy trip back and forth... when she needs help with anything, or if either of us gets lonesome. Woodhaven is my "man cave"... no TV or internet, unless I go to the senior center where both are always available. We have many weekend and vacation neighbors at WH and there are usually lots of kids around. they use my lakeside property for fishing, and my paddle pontoon boat... I also have a "stable" of bicycles that are there for anyone to use. I have a small following of little kids for which I keep a
stash of toys, fishing poles, coloring books, etc... We have story time and games. It's like "the old days"... when kids were outside, played together and made up their own rules. A break from play dates, adult organized games and Chucky Cheese parties.
We no longer travel. I truly believe we got that out of our system. Long trips in the car trigger creaky bones, and it takes more concentration to drive safely. Like it or not, reaction times are longer, and the normal 80 mph in the 70mph posted speed limits results in more stress in keeping up with traffic, or the alternative of having every car on the road passing your car. So it's mostly back roads, and planned for a more leisurely drive.
You really don't want to know the physical or mental condition of the many seniors with whom you are sharing the road. Am absolutely certain, though, that the very last instinctual process that stays with older persons, is the ability to drive.
There are some downsides to Alzheimers that don't affect every victim, but which are common. In my own case, an increasing impatience that causes grief. A rush to judgement, Spurts of anger, Intolerance for the faults or actions of others. That little angel that used to remind me to "look before you leap" has fallen down on her job. I find that I am especially critical of actions the involve matters with which I have a fair degree of expertise, as in things pertaining to the retail trade, or specialty areas that I studied in school and after. The single area that I now have under control is avoidance of discussing politics. I love to watch politics. I have strong opinions. I desperately try to keep this under control. I have one son who agrees with me, and we spend an hour a week on Skype bringing out the truth!... Building our manifesto... our noble plan to fix the ills of the whole world. The saving grace for these declining years... Someone who agress with me.
Perhaps the most important part of reaching four score, is the acknowledgement of the tightrope that we walk... healthwise. Two related things have happened:
1. Facing the reality that the future is limited and what is today may not be tomorrow.
2. Appreciating what we have, what we can still do, and trying to make the most of life by doing what we want, while doing our best to do for others.
Sorry for the use of the "I" word, but this is personal... not as advice to others, but to explain one person's perception of growing old(er).
Cheers
Bump! Time for an update.
If there's one thing I've learned about growing older, it is much better than the alternative. This will probably be too long for most.
For starters, in the older levels of the senior community maybe ages 70+, the first thing I've noticed is that there is a very, very wide difference in activity levels... some because of health, but others, a matter of choice. Yes... one of DW's friends is 91... and is never home. Out to eat, visiting children, playing bridge in tournaments, or even more likely.. taking the gambling bus, out to the river casinos... an hour away...
On the other hand, next door neighbor is 84... reasonably healthy, but enjoys her home, and lives quite independently, but trips away from home are just to help her grown children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.
Others travel at age 85, and others never leave their house or apartment in our CCRC..
All kinds and everyone different.
So entering the 80th year, what do we do?
First, we are reasonably healthy... some of the normal ailment progressions of old age... arthritis, some hearing impairment, loss of muscle strength, Flomax
, UTI's, and always... taking more time to get out of a chair, up from the floor (when fixing things). We walk the mall for some exercise, but never enough. Other things:
We were very social as a couple in our previous senior communities, but not so much any more. The young Florida active communities had large rec halls or clubhouses, and parties, cookouts and entertainment were a constant, almost everyday activity. We could not do this today. One major activity is enough. So... we spend a lot of time watching TV, and much too much time on the computer.
For me, browsing the web is a dream come true. Virtually no Email as most of our closest friends have either passed, or are far away and living their own lives. Email with our kids, but just enough to stay in touch...
I love to explore history, geography, politics, medicine... and everything in "today's" news. I've even learned a tiny bit about money, though it no longer seems important. More fun comes from studying the economy, and the macro view of the world... with an eye to the neartime future of the markets.
An update on the Alzheimers... A little hard to quantify. Pretty much what you've heard, but now it's personal, and I am able to look at specifics... Surely boring to most, but for whatever purpose, some 1st person observations.
The last thing I want is a doctor's diagnosis. To what purpose? A few months delay of symptoms? No! the kiss of death... no driving, and a branding that will last for the remaining days or years.
Memory... mostly short term, like "what did I do yesterday?" Actually unimportant.
Short attention span... on the way to the car to get something out of the trunk, decide to check the wiper fluid. Often ending up in another room and thinking "why did I come here?"
Names... I'd say names and faces, but in my adult life I've been cursed with Prosopagnosia, so ths newer problem is names. Names of people, but now... and more often:
Proper Names names... things, places, and even worse:
Dictionary words. The computer is the workaround for this problem when alone, but when in company of person who understand... a brief pause that gives them a chance to fill in the "word" without a major problem or embarassment.
Some workarounds that have helped:
Reserved places... Now, every thing has a place. Kitchen cabinets, pantry... clothes closets, garage shelves etc. Always a work in progress. Very important.
Habits... a bit more "iffy"... but seemingly unimportant things like looking in the mirror before leaving the house... shave? clothing? zipper? This may sound silly, but it's a must!. The other habits are (for both of us) first thing in the morning. To do's on the calendar, Date, Day of the week, expected weather, and maybe meals.
Have discussed the Alzheimer's with all of my kids, and finally convinced them to understand that it's happening. I still become angry when people say... "Oh that's normal... everyone forgets... you don't have Alzheimers." Knowing and admitting reduces the stress that comes from others discussing it behind your back, and usually trying to handle an AZ moment with kid gloves.
So how has life changed?
We don't go out to eat very often. Usually only with friends or our kids. I think we enjoy eating at home, at our own pace... maybe in the eliving room watching TV... Dessert at any time... Lunch between 11 and 3, dinner between 4 and 8... maybe together, maybe alone... whatever!
DW has decided that our 15 years of living at Woodhaven is "camping" and she doesn't want to do that any more. Except when the kids come to visit, Woodhaven is out of the question. Now... that doesn't apply to me, so we amicably agree to be apart for three or four days at a time during the spring, summer and fall... when I go to WH alone to bike, canoe, and commune with nature. A short half hour drive away from our home in Peru, it's an easy trip back and forth... when she needs help with anything, or if either of us gets lonesome. Woodhaven is my "man cave"... no TV or internet, unless I go to the senior center where both are always available. We have many weekend and vacation neighbors at WH and there are usually lots of kids around. they use my lakeside property for fishing, and my paddle pontoon boat... I also have a "stable" of bicycles that are there for anyone to use. I have a small following of little kids for which I keep a
stash of toys, fishing poles, coloring books, etc... We have story time and games. It's like "the old days"... when kids were outside, played together and made up their own rules. A break from play dates, adult organized games and Chucky Cheese parties.
We no longer travel. I truly believe we got that out of our system. Long trips in the car trigger creaky bones, and it takes more concentration to drive safely. Like it or not, reaction times are longer, and the normal 80 mph in the 70mph posted speed limits results in more stress in keeping up with traffic, or the alternative of having every car on the road passing your car. So it's mostly back roads, and planned for a more leisurely drive.
You really don't want to know the physical or mental condition of the many seniors with whom you are sharing the road. Am absolutely certain, though, that the very last instinctual process that stays with older persons, is the ability to drive.
There are some downsides to Alzheimers that don't affect every victim, but which are common. In my own case, an increasing impatience that causes grief. A rush to judgement, Spurts of anger, Intolerance for the faults or actions of others. That little angel that used to remind me to "look before you leap" has fallen down on her job. I find that I am especially critical of actions the involve matters with which I have a fair degree of expertise, as in things pertaining to the retail trade, or specialty areas that I studied in school and after. The single area that I now have under control is avoidance of discussing politics. I love to watch politics. I have strong opinions. I desperately try to keep this under control. I have one son who agrees with me, and we spend an hour a week on Skype bringing out the truth!... Building our manifesto... our noble plan to fix the ills of the whole world. The saving grace for these declining years... Someone who agress with me.
Perhaps the most important part of reaching four score, is the acknowledgement of the tightrope that we walk... healthwise. Two related things have happened:
1. Facing the reality that the future is limited and what is today may not be tomorrow.
2. Appreciating what we have, what we can still do, and trying to make the most of life by doing what we want, while doing our best to do for others.
Sorry for the use of the "I" word, but this is personal... not as advice to others, but to explain one person's perception of growing old(er).
Cheers
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jfn111
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Thank You for sharing.
+1
Major Tom
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Great update imoldernu - candid and insightful. Thank you.
Meadbh
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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+2
daylatedollarshort
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You are a good role model, imoldrnu, for a frugal retirement. Thanks for the update.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
+3 You're my retirement hero.
Nemo2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Being as I hit 73 next month, your post was very informative.......I'd rather be getting younger, but I've been informed that that is not an option. Thanks for posting.
