Sister thinks POA means OWNER

[Ticker]

My son is an estate lawyer. You can't believe some of his war stories! Once money enters a situation, some folks will turn on their families, friends, and spouses like lifetime enemies! "Money changes everything...."

good luck in your quest. I'd get a lawyer and get some sunshine on those books asap.

 

[Ready]

OP:

Your situation is very similar to mine. My sister is POA over my 91 year old Mom. She has already helped herself to all of my mother's money. However, my Dad and her had a falling out, and he left his estate to me. We ended up with about equal amounts, but she decided she wanted all of it. So she hired an attorney and opened probate to try and get the money. I receive threatening letters from her attorney, and nasty emails from her, on a regular basis. At some point I imagine a lawsuit will be filed.

I have not spoken to my sister in almost two years. I suspect I may never speak to her again. The wounds are very raw.

Think about how you would feel if this happens to you. Getting a lawyer involved may protect your estate, but it may permanently damage or end your relationship with your sister. Only you can decide what's most important. In my case, I never liked my sister much anyway, so it wasn't a big loss. But I may feel differently about that down the road.

I never thought a dispute about inheritances could end a relationship with a family member until this experience. Now I know better.

 

[ERD50]

... there could have been a trust set up that gave the kids and grand kids the right to take out their money right away, but they could have signed a paper saying they would not... we did that ...

My understanding is that the Feds do not consider a "gift with strings attached" to be "a gift". Sure, you can do it, but if it got questioned with regards to an Estate Tax audit, I don't think it would hold up.

"Money changes everything...." ...

It's not just money. It can be power, ego, feelings, just about anything.

... I receive threatening letters from her attorney, and nasty emails from her, on a regular basis. At some point I imagine a lawsuit will be filed.

I have not spoken to my sister in almost two years. I suspect I may never speak to her again. The wounds are very raw.

Think about how you would feel if this happens to you. ...

Separate from the situation with the OP (since we don't really know everything, and we are only hearing one side of the story), why would anyone feel bad about separating themselves from a family member that was found to be cheating other family members? Sure, I'd feel bad that they did that, but I wouldn't feel bad about separating myself from them as a result. They are the one that created the problem, not me.

When you find out that someone is toxic, you just avoid them. You don't want to find yourself in the 'battered wife/spouse/person syndrome'.

-ERD50

 

[samclem]

Separate from the situation with the OP (since we don't really know everything, and we are only hearing one side of the story), why would anyone feel bad about separating themselves from a family member that was found to be cheating other family members? Sure, I'd feel bad that they did that, but I wouldn't feel bad about separating myself from them as a result. They are the one that created the problem, not me.

Sure, I'd know that avoiding the person makes sense, and would recognize it was the right thing to do. But there's still plenty of reason to feel sad and regret that the situation has devolved to this point. Ready has effectively lost a sister--it is natural to be sad about it regardless of the reason.

 

[ERD50]

Sure, I'd know that avoiding the person makes sense, and would recognize it was the right thing to do. But there's still plenty of reason to feel sad and regret that the situation has devolved to this point. Ready has effectively lost a sister--it is natural to be sad about it regardless of the reason.

Yes, that was my point, if I didn't communicate it so well.

-ERD50

 

[Souschef]

My son is an estate lawyer. You can't believe some of his war stories! Once money enters a situation, some folks will turn on their families, friends, and spouses like lifetime enemies! "Money changes everything...."

good luck in your quest. I'd get a lawyer and get some sunshine on those books asap.

As Ben Franklin once said, "To know the true character of a person, inherit with them"

 

[Badger]

PO

Your situation sounds exactly like what my sister and I went through with our brother. I don't mean similar but exactly. He had POA and was also a POS. We found out that he had Mom declared incompetent and was giving large gifts from her savings to his 3 children, their husbands and their children for holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. He even gave LARGE sums of money to charities in which he was on the board.

We had to hire a lawyer at our expense to fight this while he could use Mom's savings to pay his lawyer. We finally forced him to provide documentation of all the withdraws from Mom's accounts and her tax papers. It took months of researching the past years of his embezzlement and a lot of personal expense to pay our lawyer to save Mom's money and make him pay back most of what he scammed. I probably should have contacted a lawyer for elder abuse and pressed to have him prosecuted. Mom passed away 7 years ago and I haven't seen or spoken to him since. I probably never will and don't see that as a loss.

Hope you are able to protect your mother and get this resolved.

Cheers!

 

[Texas Proud]

My understanding is that the Feds do not consider a "gift with strings attached" to be "a gift". Sure, you can do it, but if it got questioned with regards to an Estate Tax audit, I don't think it would hold up.

-ERD50

This has been litigated and the IRS lost... as long as the person the gift is being made to has the right to take out the money right now, then it is a current gift... just because they decided to not take it out does not change the first fact...

Now, if the child does decide to take the money out, you can make it very clear to them that this is all they are going to get.... ever... no more gifts, no money when the person passes.... it is a one time take it offer....

I will say that I cannot remember the name of this exception... and I cannot guarantee that it has not been repealed over the years...


EDIT..... just remembered the trust name... it is the Crummey trust...

In order for a gift to qualify for the $14,000 annual exclusion, it must be a “present interest”. This means that the beneficiary must have the immediate right to use and benefit from the gift. Absent the special characteristics of a Crummey Trust, gifts to a trust for ones future benefit will not be tax free, even if it was under $14,000. In order to meet this requirement, the Crummey Trust provides that when property is given to the trust, the beneficiary must have the right to withdraw the gift for at least 30 days. If the minor does not withdraw the gifted property, the gift property remains in the trust under the terms of the trust agreement.


​

So, the trust we have will distribute the funds to the kids and grand kids upon the death of mom.... but, the money is still there for her use if needed... we have it invested in an annuity that grows so no taxes or tax return are needed until death... and ours has a life insurance component to it so when she dies it is life insurance and not taxable...



Tax Free Gifts to Children & the Crummey Trust

 

[Taxman59]

Hire an attorney. Have him write a demand letter for copies of the will and checking/saving account statements.

I agree that you should hire an attorney, but the demand for a copy of the will?! You nor your sister has a right to the will of your Mother until her death. Your sister should be providing summaries of what she is doing for your mother, but you have no right to your mother's financial information. Your only "claim" is that the POA isn't acting in the best interests of your mother.
I think your sister is being foolish in not being transparent IF YOUR MOTHER WANTS TO SHARE PRIVATE INFORMATION! If your Mother was private before, then your sister keeping things private would be appropriate. The oversight of the POA is the Probate Court (your state may be different). If you have a concern, first talk to your siblings about your concerns, then consult an attorney with the concerns asking for the Court to look at the accounting of funds and care. Know that this will split the family for generations. Just my $.02

 

[athena53]

A caution on the will- they can show any will at all but if there's another one executed later, the one the OP sees could be meaningless.