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Old 12-10-2009, 01:34 PM   #21
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All things considered, maybe a stun gun isn't such a bad idea afterall, if legal where you live. A brief search shows you can get them up to a couple of feet long (telescopes down smaller), enough to down the attacking mutt safely.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:45 PM   #22
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All things considered, maybe a stun gun isn't such a bad idea afterall, if legal where you live. A brief search shows you can get them up to a couple of feet long (telescopes down smaller), enough to down the attacking mutt safely.
At the time I thought of that but they are illegal in Spain and they didnīt deliver them from USA to Spain.
I even thought of air guns. But the ones that were legal in Spain didnīt seem to do the job.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #23
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All things considered, maybe a stun gun isn't such a bad idea afterall, if legal where you live. A brief search shows you can get them up to a couple of feet long (telescopes down smaller), enough to down the attacking mutt safely.
A couple years ago i ended up between two Pitts - the larger female gouged my right shin and the younger male bit my L ankle. Had a screwdriver in my hand and didn't even consider using it as a weapon. Shouted them back and was lucky that they weren't really dedicated in the attack. Ticked me off and i called 911 - cop showed after some time - I'd retreated to behind a storm-door and the dogs continued racing around the apartment building. The cop had no more than arrived than he saw the dogs go for a kid going down the alley - cop shouted, the dogs went for him, and he fired one shot into the muzzle of the female as she closed. Dog flipped over and ran off. He had fired pretty much straight down - found the flattened slug on the concrete drive, which he took, and a broken out canine, which i kept for a while. Cops caught her later and she was put down. The pistol was a .45 semi-auto. Some animals are really tough.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:31 PM   #24
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This kinda reminds me of the park where the hikers would take off their backpacks (with food inside) and toss them to the bears when confronted. The bears quickly learned to chase the backpackers to get the free food offerings.
Yep. Those Bears learn pretty quickly. When we camp in the BWCAW in northern Minnesota, we're at campsites which are used frequently and, sadly, not always kept clean. We commonly have bear visitors. When we did Quetico Provincial Park in Ontario, campsites are used much less often and you're in a near-wilderness environment. Don't see groups of scouts or others nearly as much. In fact, you rarely see anyone. There, we hardly ever see bears near camp. They haven't associated people camping with food.

And, to keep on thread, we also don't see pit bulls.....
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:38 PM   #25
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Today, walking home from taking my kid to school, two huge boxers were roaming around together. Neither had a collar. They were across the street and crossed the street to walk toward me. I tried to stay calm and assertive (a la dog whisperer) but was freaking out deep down inside. They seemed active - like they were roaming/looking but not snarling or aggressive that I could tell, but not in the docile, happy dog state either. Luckily I was near my home. I stared past them, kept walking and they walked toward me, then behind me and seemed to follow - not too closely though. Luckily my keys worked and I was in the door! They smelled around my front yard and then left.

I have to say I am totally freaked out. I called animal control hotline and they already had a call about the dogs. I was most concerned that I usually have my little one with me when we walk!

We've seen strays before, and coyotes too - anything I should have done differently or from now on? About every few months in frequency.

I only live 3 blocks from the school so love walking the kids to school, and don't plan on not walking but want to make sure I have the best information on approach. Maybe some spray? Oh, just can't imagine what would have gone differently if my preschooler was with me? !!
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:54 PM   #26
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Today, walking home from taking my kid to school, two huge boxers were roaming around together. Neither had a collar. They were across the street and crossed the street to walk toward me. I tried to stay calm and assertive (a la dog whisperer) but was freaking out deep down inside. They seemed active - like they were roaming/looking but not snarling or aggressive that I could tell, but not in the docile, happy dog state either. Luckily I was near my home. I stared past them, kept walking and they walked toward me, then behind me and seemed to follow - not too closely though. Luckily my keys worked and I was in the door! They smelled around my front yard and then left.

I have to say I am totally freaked out. I called animal control hotline and they already had a call about the dogs. I was most concerned that I usually have my little one with me when we walk!

We've seen strays before, and coyotes too - anything I should have done differently or from now on? About every few months in frequency.

I only live 3 blocks from the school so love walking the kids to school, and don't plan on not walking but want to make sure I have the best information on approach. Maybe some spray? Oh, just can't imagine what would have gone differently if my preschooler was with me? !!
How scary!! I would have been pretty freaked out by that, too. I don't have any good suggestions, though, other than driving the kids to school and driving your preschooler to a safe park somewhere to walk. With any luck, animal control will pick up the dogs soon.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:57 PM   #27
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My father was attacked by big dogs while walking through a park. If it wasn't for someone with an umbrella coming to his rescue, those dogs would have killed him.

He did require an ambulance and immediate medical care though. I saw his leg(s) afterward and the wounds looked like bullet holes.

After that he carried a golf club when he went walking.
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:27 PM   #28
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On a related note, consider how millions of abandoned and hungry dogs will factor into the "Haiti as a prelude to Armageddon" thread...
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:30 PM   #29
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It's a shame that this is an issue, but it is. I had a bad experience once - walked past a house with a barking dog inside - the owners came outside and the dog bounded out past them, through the yard full blast and jumped OVER the fence at me. I was yelling and so were the owners...luckily the dog pulled back about 15 feet away from me. Then the owners yelled "he won't hurt you". Yeah, right. I was petrified.

Any time I walk now (which is rare after that incident) I am uncomfortable unless I have pepper spray with me.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:00 PM   #30
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I hate loose dogs, dogs with idiot owners, etc. Fortuantely most of what I see here is poodles and pugs and the like on leash and with very attentive owners. When I lived in the country I also did the golf club thing, usually an old fashioned steel shaft putter. Any time you are with a child though it is much trickier. The trouble with spray and a child is that if the wind is wrong the spray can get in the child's eyes.

Ha
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:18 PM   #31
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On a related note, consider how millions of abandoned and hungry dogs will factor into the "Haiti as a prelude to Armageddon" thread...
When I was in Haiti (quite a few years ago) there were very few dogs or cats running around loose, and actually not too many people had them as pets either. With poverty so widespread, being able to provide for family was hard enough, and being able to provide for pets was nearly impossible. And our friends who lived there said that strays, more often than not, became a source of food.

We were 'out and about' everyday from right after breakfast until just before bedtime, and we were all over the place from Port au Prince (from the relatively 'upscale' neighborhoods all the way down to the slum areas of Cité Soleil) to tiny outlying villages. In all of our journeys, we only saw a couple of strays running at large, and only a couple more in peoples 'yards'. We asked our Haitian friend if he'd ever eaten dog, and he replied that he had....often....because 'you eat whatever is available'. Kinda gives new meaning to the term "hot dog"!
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #32
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When bicycling through Appalachia years ago I was warned of the many loose vicious dogs, and told to carry Halt! spray on the handlebars. The one time I couldn't get away from a dog, I stopped and sprayed it. The dog stopped attacking as soon as he saw me grab the spray, but he was still barking crazily and I felt threatened so I sprayed him. It was windy, and I think I got as much in my mouth as he did (I must have been screaming), but he ran away. I was uncomfortable for a few hours but it was worth it.
It's also handy to know how to break a dog's neck. Just google and you'll find instructions. Sorry in advance if this offends anyone but a little girl was killed by the family pit bull here in town recently and I wish someone had known how to do this. There are two Rottweilers living next door that sometimes get loose and threaten people so I must feel ready to defend myself and the children on my street.
By the way, some of my best friends are dogs. Really. But I have zero tolerance for killers.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:11 PM   #33
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I use a lever style pump sprayer like a 409 bottle filled with industrial strength liquid ammonia (stuff is used in blueprint machines). The spray head shoots the ammonia about 2-3 feet and the one time I used it on a Doberman, with it's fangs exposed coming directly at me, the dog stopped dead in it's tracks and was literally screaming for it's life.

A dogs sense of smell is so keen compared to a humans that the ammonia literally stuns it's brain.

The best part is that you can spray a few shots just as a warning. And it's not nearly as impacting to a person. That one time I used it was like the feeling of horseradish when it goes up your nose. But I just got a bit teary eyed and rode off on my bike while the dog was in sheer agony.

Try ammonia, you'll stop any dog. Even a pit bull.
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:02 AM   #34
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My BiL and I had a conversation about fighting dogs. I wouldn't say I am afraid of dogs, but I thought there wasn't much you can do against an attacking dog. He pointed out that dogs have only one or two attacks: biting or knocking you down with their front legs if they are big enough. Both attacks present several tender targets for you:

- The leg bones are fairly thin and brittle. Step on them, or if you're strong enough you might break or sprain one by grabbing and twisting to unnatural angles (as opposed to forward and back against their muscles, pull outward or otherwise where their muscles aren't meant to be strong). A dog loses a lot of power and gains a lot of pain with a broken back leg.
- Kick or punch the ribs. Those dogs that theoretically bite and never let go will probably turn and run with a broken rib or two
- Push fingers or thumbs deeply into an eye or two.
- Pull and twist the ears. This may not seem like a weak spot, but it is a sensation a dog is not used to, even in a fight.
- Grab the upper or lower lip alongside the jaw and pull hard. Sensitive area for them and very exposed if they are already biting you

This is not an argument against pepper spray or a weapon, but learning these things removed some fear in my mind and replaced it with a plan of action. If a dog looks like he'll attack me, I'll be afraid but not petrified, and I'll be planning where to kick, punch or poke, and hopefully the dog will sense that I am ready to fight back.

Dog lovers will debate what tool to use to pry a dog's mouth open when it bites, but they are trying not to injure their dogs. As the assault victim we don't have that worry. The more pain for the dog, the more quickly he'll stop attacking.

I like dogs, but I know no matter how wonderful they've been all their life, something can make them turn and bite someone or even bolt from the house, run across the street and bite a neighbor much to the shock of their owner. A friend of a friend keeping two sweet, friendly, loving dogs in an electric fenced area was quite shocked to find that the dogs regularly escaped and roamed the neighborhood, and nobody told them until the dogs mauled and nearly killed a neighbor's dog. Vet bill over $700.
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:32 AM   #35
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I've seen a video where a woman fights off a dog who was attacking a relative. I think it was a pit bull, and she chased it around whacking it pretty good with a stick until it ran off. I can't find it now, but I found the following. This might be mildly disturbing, but it's low-resolution and you can't see anything gory, and everyone but the dog seems to come out of it okay.

At the start, a man and woman are each holding a rear leg of a pit bull to presumably keep it away from a third person or perhaps the other dog. When the third person and dog are away they let go (why I don't know) the dog turns and attacks the man who falls and gets dragged around a bit by the hand or arm. The woman just screams and yells "help help help", but look how easy it would have been for her to stomp the dogs legs or break all of its ribs on one side. Even if it didn't stop the attack it would reduce its ability to charge or pull people around, and clearly between the two of them they could have kicked it to death if they had just taken the opportunities. The man tries pulling his arm free and pushing the dog's head back, fighting muscle against muscle when he obviously had a free hand to hit or poke the dog in more sensitive and defenseless areas as mentioned in my previous post.

The scene cuts to the woman holding the dog by its hind legs, and the man apparently isn't inclined to help her and runs off. The police pull up, the camera man (recording safely from an upper-floor window) yells "shoot it!", and the woman for some reason lets go, and of course the dog turns on her.

The police run up and shoot the dog which starts running and shooting and trying to run the dog down with their police jeep, but it's too fuzzy to see if they're actually harming the dog because it's running too fast for the video to render it.

But for the me the big lesson is not to panic, to hit defenseless parts of the animal instead of fighting strength against strength, and to take the cheap shot and break the back leg and kick the right ribs on over to meet the left ribs instead of standing two feet from it screaming for help! (And don't let go of the feet until the dog is disabled.)

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Old 01-28-2010, 04:10 AM   #36
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A-ha. I found the video I was thinking of, but it's not quite as I remember it. The big lady in pink is the owner who tries yelling her dog off the victim and pulling the victim away. She blames the victim for getting attacked.

A neighbor with a stick hits the dog twice, and each time the dog immediately lets go. This dog is giving his victim less time to rest and think than the people in the previous video, but I still think she had the opportunity to kick and stomp ribs and/or legs, but she tries pulling away with one arm while pushing the dog's face with another. A natural reaction, but not effective. Also, the guy with the stick might have done more damage hitting the ribs or breaking a back leg instead of hitting the head/neck area. He made the dog let go but didn't curb its enthusiasm.

Lessons I take away: An attacking dog will let go if hurt, but it may attack again if not actually injured. Avoid panic and fight back against more tender areas instead of fighting directly against the dog's strength. And again, if I am not the one being bitten look how big and vulnerable a target those ribs are.

I see no gore in this video, but it is up-close and has good resolution. It may be disturbing. The dog starts obeying the owner after getting whacked hard twice by the stick-wielding neighbor, but the victim is obviously in pain and shock.

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Old 01-28-2010, 07:59 AM   #37
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BMJ, you keep this up and the nice folks from PETA will burn a cross on your front lawn - and demand you pay for a robot to replace Punxsutawney Phil...
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:45 AM   #38
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...............

Lessons I take away: An attacking dog will let go if hurt, but it may attack again if not actually injured. Avoid panic and fight back against more tender areas instead of fighting directly against the dog's strength. And again, if I am not the one being bitten look how big and vulnerable a target those ribs are.

I see no gore in this video, but it is up-close and has good resolution. It may be disturbing. The dog starts obeying the owner after getting whacked hard twice by the stick-wielding neighbor, but the victim is obviously in pain and shock.
Thanks for posting this. I hope I never need to get into hand to hand combat with a dog, but it is good to know how to really fight back if you need to.

I'd argue that in the last video, the woman in pink intentionally turned the dog loose, though she cleverly tried to make it look like an accident. Her words give her away.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:12 AM   #39
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Thanks for posting this. I hope I never need to get into hand to hand combat with a dog, but it is good to know how to really fight back if you need to.

I'd argue that in the last video, the woman in pink intentionally turned the dog loose, though she cleverly tried to make it look like an accident. Her words give her away.
I listened to the video at the very beginning twice.
Yes, she used an implied threat with the animal control officer, i.e. the dog will be coming out or something like that. It was hard to make out the exact words.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:19 PM   #40
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I listened to the video at the very beginning twice.
Yes, she used an implied threat with the animal control officer, i.e. the dog will be coming out or something like that. It was hard to make out the exact words.
She says " if you don't want to get bit you'd better get outta here."
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