Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2008, 01:38 PM   #21
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
On a hill is good, but no guarantee. I'm fairly high, but the ground is all clay. Any water coming around the house in a downpour is going to find it's way down there, and it is going to stay until it gets pumped out.

Picture your basement as a rectangular tupperware container with a hole in the bottom (the drains). Now, set that in a big basin (the clay around the house). Rain enters the basin, and it is going to rise up the drain. You have to pump the basin out. You can't keep the water out, or the pressure would cave the walls in.

I think maybe one of the gutter downspouts is running close enough to the house to fill that 'basin' on my house. I need to dig it up, and see if I can re-route it, if that even is the issue.

OTOH, I know people who have finished basements, have NO sump pump, and never had a problem. If the water flows away from the house, and does not get trapped by clay, you can be fine.

No, not an issue at all. You have it all hooked up when it is installed. And the float on the battery powered pump is set a little higher than the 'main' AC pump. So it will automatically come on if the main pump cannot keep up, or is not running because power is out. This way, it will also protect you automatically, even if you are away from home during the storm.

-ERD50
Ah!! More information. Thanks. This is very interesting to me and will be helpful when I look for a home in Missouri, in about two years. I like the idea of having the battery back-up pump arranged so it can "help" the main pump, if it can't keep up, even if the power is still working.
__________________

__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-06-2008, 02:33 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
[quote=ERD50;679329

Well, 500 GPH is apples-to-oranges. My 1/3HP pump is ~ 2500 @ 10' lift - 5X that bilge pump. So that is more like a 1/16th HP pump. I would not want to count on that, in a bad storm that knocks out power, that would probably leave me flooded anyhow. Way too marginal.

I'm not saying that straight 12V is not a good way to go. There are the advantages you mention of fewer components, and better eff with one less conversion. But for me, the flexibility and redundancy of two identical pumps made the inverter solution attractive.

-ERD50[/quote]

No problem, just offered an option to OP.

One of my mottos developed over many years: "listen to me, then you do it your way"
__________________

__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
Ah!! More information. Thanks. This is very interesting to me and will be helpful when I look for a home in Missouri, in about two years. I like the idea of having the battery back-up pump arranged so it can "help" the main pump, if it can't keep up, even if the power is still working.
Another issue is with new houses with basements: The dirt is pushed back around the foundation/basement and the water flows away from the house and all is fine; over a few years, the dirt compresses and one day there is a downpour and you realize the water now flows toward the house. This happened to my parents (fortunately the house was built into a hill with a walkout basement and a floor drain).
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008, 04:11 PM   #24
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
Another issue is with new houses with basements: The dirt is pushed back around the foundation/basement and the water flows away from the house and all is fine; over a few years, the dirt compresses and one day there is a downpour and you realize the water now flows toward the house. This happened to my parents (fortunately the house was built into a hill with a walkout basement and a floor drain).
Hmm!! I'll keep that in mind. It seems as though very few new houses are built with basements (other than walkout basements) in my probably ER location. Maybe that explains why more aren't built with full basements, other than the expense of digging one in the rocky soil. Thanks.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 04:50 AM   #25
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
So, do most/all older houses with full basements get water in the basements? How much of a pain in the rear ARE sump pumps, anyway? Do you have to be mechanically inclined and knowledgable to keep one running and keep a basement dry?
I can't speak for all areas, but where I lived most of my life north of Washington, DC all the houses I've lived in had basements and my mother's was the only one that occasionally had a wet basement and that was a grading issue. Three bags of top soil and a handful of grass seed fixed it.

None of the houses I've lived in had sump pumps but several in the neighborhood where I'm now living do. One I know of has two, and in heavy rain they are needed but he's in a low-lying area. Our house is on higher ground, does not have a sump or pump and half the basement is finished off, and has carpeting. It has a walk out basement door to ground level in the back and only the front part of the basement is below grade. I do keep a dehumidifier running to keep tools dry. Simple physics dictates that a below-grade basement is going to have a higher humidity level than the upstairs area.

A sump pump is a simple device. It's just a water pump powered by an electric motor with a float similar to the one inside a toilet tank. When the water rises the float turns on a switch to the motor. The motor runs until the water level drops and the switch turns off the motor. The whole thing just plugs into a regular electrical outlet. Depending on the type and capacity the cost of one is $70 to $250. Others who have lived with them can comment further, but I'd expect to replace it about every ten years or so. Given the environment they're in (metal and electrical things in standing water) that's pretty good I think.

There's not much that can go wrong with them. The motor can fail, the pump can fail, the switch can fail, or the power can go off. Trouble is the power is most likely to go off when the pump is most needed, during a storm, hence all the discussion about backup strategies.

You needn't be concerned about electrocuting yourself with a 12v battery in standing water unless you're also messing with an inverter, which converts 12v battery power to 120v house current.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 05:40 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,247
I vote for battery backup with solar charging, rather than a gas generator. You could use it off of 12v, or you could attach an inverter and use it to power your fridge when the power is off and the sump pump is not needed. You could probably get a good setup with an auto transfer switch with a couple panels, battery and inverter for a couple thousand dollars. But what do I know, I don't have a basement. I do have solar though, with battery back-up and an auto transfer switch that powers critical loads.
R
__________________
Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:02 AM   #27
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,868
Walt, thanks - - that sounds a lot less complicated (and perhaps even a lot less commonly needed), than I had thought.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:04 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Just brainstorming here...

You're all set when you're home. The only problem is getting things started when you're at work and the power goes out in the morning, or when you're on a trip.

Could you set things up so that a neighbor or neighbor's kid could go over and turn on the generator and plug in the pump when the power goes out?
I do have some responsible kids here in the neighborhood. The problem is that they would be a school when I'm at work. Also, when we get a storm here the time between an outage and an indoor swimming pool can be about 10 minutes.
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:07 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
No problem, just offered an option to OP.

One of my mottos developed over many years: "listen to me, then you do it your way"

I've found a system sold locally that has a 12v pump that throws out 4000 GPH at 10' lift. It has two marine batteries that will keep it running between 7 and 12 hours depending on flow. I do like the idea however of identical pumps.
__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:21 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9 View Post
I've found a system sold locally that has a 12v pump that throws out 4000 GPH at 10' lift. It has two marine batteries that will keep it running between 7 and 12 hours depending on flow. I do like the idea however of identical pumps.
That is an impressive volume of pumping ability. Hope you never need that at full capacity. Even 2000 gallons of water coning in per hour is a lot. That would be filling about 36 55 gallon drums per hour. So at full capacity you could fill more than one 55 gal barrel every minute.

Need to be a bit careful with battery types.

Marine batteries are nothing but ruggedized car batteries, to handle lots of shock an vibration. They are not deep discharge batteries, thus can not handle full discharge with impunity.

There are batteries designed for deep cycling, they usually are found in forklifts, golf carts and such. But that battery discussion can open up another can of worms, with many opinions. I think Sams clubs, Costco etc have them at reasonable prices.


The trick with the batteries is to have a smart charger which will prevent boiling the battery, yet keep it full.

Good clean tight connection to battery is essential.

Happy days!
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:29 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
There are batteries designed for deep cycling, they usually are found in forklifts, golf carts and such. But that battery discussion can open up another can of worms, with many opinions. I think Sams clubs, Costco etc have them at reasonable prices.

The trick with the batteries is to have a smart charger which will prevent boiling the battery, yet keep it full.
Yep, lots of opinions on this subject but I agree that a deep cycling battery would be better for this application. Most non-boat RV's use two 6v golf cart batteries hooked up in series to power 12 volt systems. Use a smart charger and check the fluid levels and they will give you the most bang pump for the buck.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 09:59 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
How much are those non-battery powered pumps? I live on top of a hill and my sump pump works fine, but I would like the peace of mind in case the power goes out.

I have city water..........
__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 03:50 PM   #33
Full time employment: Posting here.
UncleHoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
How much are those non-battery powered pumps? I live on top of a hill and my sump pump works fine, but I would like the peace of mind in case the power goes out.

I have city water..........
So far the ones I have found range in price from $139 to almost $500.

Here are some links to several different ones and some discussion about them.

I think I would favor a water powered emergency pump over battery operated. I just think battery maintenance would be a pain and something you might forget or put off and when needed most the batteries would be dead.

We've had a sump pump for over 25 years and only a few times have I worried about what would happen if the power went off and only once have we actually had a monster rain (about 10 days ago) and a power failure. In 25 years I wonder how many batteries I would have had to replace. Like everything else, even a water powered pump would need periodic testing and maintenance.

The links;

Basepump|The backup sump pump that uses water to pump water

Zoeller's HOME GUARD Backup Sump Pump System that is powered by water.

Wayne Water Powered Sump Pump, Model# EWP10 | Sump Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment

The Pros and Cons of a Water Powered Sump Pump
__________________

__________________
100% retired and working hard at it.
UncleHoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mike jackson, CEO of AutoNation Calls For Higher Gas Tax at the Pump haha FIRE and Money 13 05-31-2008 05:37 PM
Geothermal Heat Pump jazz4cash Other topics 36 03-13-2008 02:08 PM
Sump Pumps happy2bretired Other topics 25 04-17-2007 04:30 PM
Yet another thread on how fat you are....lose weight and save at the pump! maddythebeagle Other topics 11 10-29-2006 03:48 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:10 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.