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Old 01-27-2010, 02:27 PM   #21
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Seems Toyota is not the good samaritain some here think... even though there are some hints they did go beyond what was asked...

"The Obama administration said it pressed Toyota to protect consumers who own vehicles under recall and to stop building new cars with the problem.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told WGN Radio in Chicago that "the reason Toyota decided to do the recall and to stop manufacturing was because we asked them to."

And now the blame game starts:

"The supplier is CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Ind., and the problem part was manufactured at its plant in Ontario, Canada, according to a report Toyota handed to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last week."

Here is the article...

Toyota US sales halt deals blow to image, earnings - Yahoo! News
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:45 PM   #22
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I haven't been following this case very closely since I've never owned a Toyota (Honda, Mazada guy). Only my mom has one.

The LA Times article was chilling and reinforced a pattern I've seen recently about regulators. First we have the SEC ignoring repeated concerns about Bernie Maddox, and also naked short selling. Then we have the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac regulators issuing a report saying that Fannie and Freddie were well capitalized. Just weeks before Morgan Stanley (at the John Paulson's request ) conducted an investigation that were actually insolvent for the tune of 50-200 billion. Now we have the NHTSA failing in a spectacular fashion.

One of the argument why financial regulators failed is that the pay is some much better in the banks and Wall St for the most part the smart guys went to Wall St and others went to work for the government. I don't think you can make the same argument about the folks who work for the NHTSA. I would think compared to the auto industry the government job offers comparable pay, slightly better benefits, and vastly better security.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:07 PM   #23
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I would hate to be within an organizational mile of this mess. Lincoln said that "the path to success is broad enough for two to walk abreast," meaning credit can always be shared. When it comes to spreading the blame for an eff up of such galactic proportions, I get a mental image of Civil War era soldiers forming a line and slowly walking toward a guy with a Gatling gun.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:18 PM   #24
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Now we have the NHTSA failing in a spectacular fashion.

One of the argument why financial regulators failed is that the pay is some much better in the banks and Wall St for the most part the smart guys went to Wall St and others went to work for the government.
I think part of the problem with Wall Street is that the government workers want to end up at the Wall Street firms so to take a hard line with any financial firms means shooting down future job prospects.

I don't know what the NHTSA iproblems are but I think the lack of action on their part over so many years is appalling and as big an issue as the recall itself.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:19 PM   #25
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The fatal crash in California involved a Lexus, and so did many of the other accidents in which uncontrollable acceleration was experienced. But only Toyotas (not Lexii) are being recalled. Would love to hear the explanation of that one.

There is something just a little stinky on this recall though. Last year a Lexus owner vigorously pursued a mandatory recall after having an out of control acceleration incident. The same NHTSA investigative engineer who looked into the California fatality looked at that guy's car as well. NHTSA's report showed all sorts of tests that they said were done and they were unable to recreate the problem, as did Toyota say at the time as well. The end result was a recall regarding the floor mats (which were involved in the California case). But within days of the California crash NHTSA started making noises like there was something else wrong, and Toyota appeared to be twisting in the wind a little in their reaction.

I wonder what was different that made NHTSA distance itself from backing Toyota's claim that it was all about floor mats. Either they discovered new evidence or they realized that they had not done enough in the earlier investigation are the only things I can think of.

Whichever the case is, or something else even, I'm not very impressed by the lack of clarity on exactly what is wrong and that old standby, "who knew what and when did they know it."

Edit to add: The vultures are already flying overhead.
Quote:
Hoping to capitalize on the problems facing Toyota and its recalls, GM will offer a monthlong incentive to Toyota and Lexus owners. The move comes as a response to “thousands” of calls and e-mails to dealers from Toyota owners asking for help (believe it or not).

The incentive runs through the end of Feb. and will offer the following:

* Those who choose to lease a vehicle may waive three payments for up to a total of $1,000.
* Qualifying customers who are financing a vehicle purchase can receive 0 percent financing for up to 60 months.
* Cash buyers can receive $1,000 off their purchase.

According to GM spokesman Tom Henderson, the incentive applies to GMC, Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet vehicles.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:41 PM   #26
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I've had 4 Toyotas so far, but this may start me thinking about Honda....yup...may switch next time IF my Solara ever does die.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:29 PM   #27
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The media is having a hard time keeping all of this straight.

There is the big recall for "pedal entrapment".

Then there is this week's recall/stop sales/stop production for "sticking or slowly returning pedal".

And now later Wednesday, another 1.1 million Toyotas have been added to the "pedal entrapment" recall, they were not included originally.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:42 PM   #28
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I didn't know about it when I bought my Venza yesterday (which isn't one of the affected models). snip
Today the 2009 & 2010 Venza, along with some other Toyotas, 1.1 million total, were added to the pedal entrapment recall.

Whether your new Venza was built with a different pedal design, or already "modified", who knows.

The short-term "fix" for pedal entrapment was for the dealer to cut off part of the pedal (the bottom-most part, I believe), to make it shorter. Then many months later the owner would be notified to bring it in again to have the "modified" pedal replaced with a newly-designed one, when they are available.


Designing new parts or assemblies takes time. Then building and exhaustively testing prototypes including temperature testing, cycling, aging, etc. And then if the design looks good, then a mfg. has to tool up to produce production samples, to be tested again, and if OK, then released to parts production. Then the parts mfg. has to acquire materials and ramp up production. To make millions of parts. It's gonna take a while...
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:50 PM   #29
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I drive a 2005 Avalon and love it! Toyota customers are pretty loyal. I know I am. I look forward to getting this fixed, and it won't deter me from buying another Avalon in the future.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:14 AM   #30
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Not that I was planning on buying anything soon, but this cements my utter lack of interest in Toyota products.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:11 AM   #31
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What I wonder is how do they know which vehicles are excluded ? Since the Solara was basically a sporty Camry but it is excluded from the recall . I love my Toyota but I'm not sure if I'll stick with them after this incident . That article from the Los Angeles Times has me pretty spooked .
Latest word is that no one yet knows why this is happening in a very small percentage of cars.
Toyota has apparently isolated this to occuring in vehicles with a part from a particular supplier. Only some models use that part. So to be overly cautious Toyota is recalling all models that use that part.
I applaud them for this as it is an extremely expensive way to do it, but also the most cautious.
Ford this morning has also stopped production in China of some models of their commercial vehicles which use accelerator parts from the same supplier.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:16 AM   #32
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Edit to add: The vultures are already flying overhead.
Quote:
Hoping to capitalize on the problems facing Toyota and its recalls, GM will offer a monthlong incentive to Toyota and Lexus owners. The move comes as a response to “thousands” of calls and e-mails to dealers from Toyota owners asking for help (believe it or not).

The incentive runs through the end of Feb. and will offer the following:

* Those who choose to lease a vehicle may waive three payments for up to a total of $1,000.
* Qualifying customers who are financing a vehicle purchase can receive 0 percent financing for up to 60 months.
* Cash buyers can receive $1,000 off their purchase.

According to GM spokesman Tom Henderson, the incentive applies to GMC, Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet vehicles.
They have the same opportunity with this buyer as they always have. Build a car that gets better mpg than my Prius, or better yet a pure EV and I will buy it.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:29 AM   #33
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From Wikipedia:



Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, class-action lawsuits claimed that Dow Corning's silicone breast implants caused systemic health problems. The claims first centered around breast cancer, and then migrated to a range of autoimmune diseases, including lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and various neurological problems. This led to numerous lawsuits beginning in 1984 and culminating in a 1998 multi-billion dollar class action settlement. As a result, Dow Corning was in bankruptcy protection for nine years, ending in June 2004.


A number of large, independent reviews of the scientific literature, including the U.S. Institute of Medicine, have subsequently found that silicone breast implants do not appear to cause breast cancers or any identifiable systemic disease.[1][2] [3]
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:50 AM   #34
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I am surprised Chrysler can sell one car... but I bet I might hear from someone on the board why they bought one...
I didn't buy a Chrysler, but I did buy a 2008 Dodge, during the brief period it was owned by Americans. The reason I bought the car was I had one as a company car and worked it mercilessly. I knew I was going to be leaving the job soon and used the time as an extended test drive. It kept running without a problem. I can honestly say I've been pleased with the performance of the car I purchased. It has been in the shop for warranty work two times in the two years I've owned it. Once for leaking fog lights and once for a cracked piece of trim. That is far less than the GM I owned and about the same as the Ford I own. It is not that I don't like foreign cars, I just don't see the sense in buying a foreign product when there are acceptable products made by companies headquartered in the US.
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:09 AM   #35
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I didn't buy a Chrysler, but I did buy a 2008 Dodge, during the brief period it was owned by Americans. The reason I bought the car was I had one as a company car and worked it mercilessly. I knew I was going to be leaving the job soon and used the time as an extended test drive. It kept running without a problem. I can honestly say I've been pleased with the performance of the car I purchased. It has been in the shop for warranty work two times in the two years I've owned it. Once for leaking fog lights and once for a cracked piece of trim. That is far less than the GM I owned and about the same as the Ford I own. It is not that I don't like foreign cars, I just don't see the sense in buying a foreign product when there are acceptable products made by companies headquartered in the US.
Maybe their quality is getting better. I had a 95 Eagle Vision (nightmare), a 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan (nightmare), and a 2004 Chrysler Town and Country (ending up suing Chrysler because the vehicle was in the shop 44 days in the first two years I owned it)...........
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:27 PM   #36
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I didn't buy a Chrysler, but I did buy a 2008 Dodge,.... It is not that I don't like foreign cars, I just don't see the sense in buying a foreign product when there are acceptable products made by companies headquartered in the US.
That was my thought too.

Everybody makes a lemon once in a while, even Rolls Royce. The two '03 GM vehicles we have have been peaches so far. At seven years the truck needed one windshield wiper circuit board and the Buick had two minor electrical issues fixed under warranty.

Neither has any squeaks or rattles, which in the case of the pickup I think is particularly impressive.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by lets-retire View Post
I didn't buy a Chrysler, but I did buy a 2008 Dodge, during the brief period it was owned by Americans. The reason I bought the car was I had one as a company car and worked it mercilessly. I knew I was going to be leaving the job soon and used the time as an extended test drive. It kept running without a problem. I can honestly say I've been pleased with the performance of the car I purchased. It has been in the shop for warranty work two times in the two years I've owned it. Once for leaking fog lights and once for a cracked piece of trim. That is far less than the GM I owned and about the same as the Ford I own. It is not that I don't like foreign cars, I just don't see the sense in buying a foreign product when there are acceptable products made by companies headquartered in the US.
Same thing... Dodge and Chrysler...

My sister owed a number of them... and all were POS... interesting thing now is she has a Lexus... but might be old enough to not be involved..

But to tell a story... she had a Volare... and it broke down all the time... the engine blew up on it and my BIL was going to replace the engine... when someone STOLE the car.... we told my sister to put in a claim to the insurance... she took her time... and a week later.... THEY BROUGHT THE CAR BACK!!!... dropped it off on her driveway... now tell me, how bad does a car have to be when a crook doesn't even want it... we were suprised they took the time to bring it back...
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:28 PM   #38
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silicone breast implants do not appear to cause breast cancers or any identifiable systemic disease.
The link between stuck accelerators, crashes and Toyotas is pretty specific. People that get pains in their joints don't always know the cause. Maybe it is from implants, maybe it is their diet, maybe they type too much. Maybe it is a combination of 100 different things. Vague illnesses are pretty hard to pinpoint an exact cause.

But people who have cars accelerating suddenly know that they can't stop their cars despite their best efforts and they know what make and model of car they are driving.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:39 PM   #39
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But people who have cars accelerating suddenly know that they can't stop their cars despite their best efforts...
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:51 PM   #40
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The "put it in neutral answer" has been widely publicized now due to the recalls, but even a trained highway patrol officer didn't think to do it when his car went out of control and he and his passengers all died from the sudden acceleration problem.

If putting a car in neutral solved all of the safety issues, then there would be no need for cars to be recalled or sales to be suspended.
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