The Great Global Warming Swindle

Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

eridanus said:
This is a pretty interesting article on the skeptics of the ozone hole discovery.

http://www.wunderground.com/education/ozone_skeptics.asp

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With the advantage of hindsight, it is revealing to review the techniques the skeptics used to mislead and distort the truth in the debate on the CFC-ozone depletion issue.

*Launch a public relations campaign disputing the evidence.
DuPont, which made 1/4 of the world's CFCs, spent millions of dollars running full-page newspaper advertisements defending CFCs in 1975

*Find and pay a respected scientist to argue persuasively against the threat.
CFC industry companies hired the world's largest public relations firm, Hill & Knowlton, who organized a month-long U.S. speaking tour in 1975 for noted British scientist Richard Scorer,

* Use non-peer reviewed scientific publications or industry-funded scientists who don't publish original peer-reviewed scientific work to support your point of view.

* Trumpet discredited scientific studies and myths supporting your point of view as scientific fact.

* Point to the substantial scientific uncertainty, and the certainty of economic loss if immediate action is taken.

etc.

This sounds like the Hillary Clinton approach to speaking about anything.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

:confused:?? How did Hillary get involved? On some boards people will do anything (include change the subject) to lob a shot at "the other side", let's not do that here! :)
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

eridanus said:
Gravity is also only a theory.
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See earlier post re: popular vs scientific concept of Theory
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Running_Man said:
Not according to the World meteoroligical Organization: We may need to ban something else:

3 October2006 World Meteorological Organization This year’s hole in the Antarctic ozone layer was the most serious on record exceeding that of 2000. Not only was it the largest in surface area (matching 2000) but also suffered the most mass deficit, meaning that there was less ozone over the Antarctic than ever previously measured.

Measurements were taken from instruments on both NASA and European Space Agency (ESA) satellites. These are validated by surface based observations of the WMO Global Atmosphere Watch (GAW) ozone network. Each agency uses different instruments hence the slightly different values.

NASA instruments showed that, on 25 September 2006, the area of the hole reached 29.5 million km2, compared to 29.4 million km2 reached in September 2000.

Wonderful scientific approach. Lauch satellites capable of looking for different things. Find something different. Develop a theory about how man must be causing it and proclaim it will destroy the planet. This seems to be the approach for the "ozone hole."

How long has it been there? Nobody knows because we didn't have the technology to look for it before. Has it been like this before? Who knows since this is the first time we've seen it.

We now know that over the last few years it has changed in size. We don't know anything else unless you have an axe to grind.

All of the hurricane coverage a year ago was just as bad. We didn't know about half of the hurricanes until we got weather satellites up in the 70s and even then they have improved their coverage. Somehow, we have "the most hurricanes in history" and the world is coming to an end. I thing that maybe we had the most hurricanes in 20 or 30 years. That's not anywhere near as exciting.

BTW -- all the CFC plants that were shutdown were sold to India and China who started them up and built more. CFCs are only banned in Europe, Japan, Canada and the US (and possibly some other "industrialized" areas). Just like Kyoto, it doesn't apply to most of the rest of the planet.

All I'm seeing in all the global warming hype is questionable science, intimidation and scare tactics.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Masterblaster said:
This sounds like the Hillary Clinton approach to speaking about anything.
There we go. My favorite . . . It's Clinton's fault. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

I think this has to rank at least as high as mention of Hitler when it comes to knowing a thread is complete. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Running_Man said:
Well it appears NASA is in disagreement with you on the ozone layer beginnning to recover per their measurements

Hmm...last time NASA did some "measurements" they flew a probe into the side of mars...what was that error? Using meters instead of yards or some such thing?
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

2B said:
BTW -- all the CFC plants that were shutdown were sold to India and China who started them up and built more. CFCs are only banned in Europe, Japan, Canada and the US (and possibly some other "industrialized" areas). Just like Kyoto, it doesn't apply to most of the rest of the planet.

This is true, and it sucks. Yet, it's worked. CFC production has decreased since the 70s.



Edit: Removed comment.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

dex said:
See earlier post re: popular vs scientific concept of Theory

Ok.

"For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation."

:confused:

I fail to see how AGW doesn't meet the definition of "theory."



Edit: double words
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

AGW does fit the scientific definition of a theory. I think what he is saying is that it isn't a 'popular' theory with some people (oil tycoons and such) :LOL:
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
Hmm...last time NASA did some "measurements" they flew a probe into the side of mars...what was that error? Using meters instead of yards or some such thing?

CFB,

Cheap shot!! :rant: :rant:
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

:LOL:

Sincere apology to those at nasa who use the same units of measure throughout a project ;)
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
:LOL:

Sincere apology to those at nasa who use the same units of measure throughout a project ;)

Don't forget the probe that was supposed to be caught by helicoptors that slammed into the Utah desert instead. A tech had hooked up the altimeter tubes backwards. I watched that hit on a NASA monitor. It was impressive.

I was supposed to help with the handling and storage of the samples collected.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

So in other words you were a pretty happy camper due to the substantial drop in required work?

Or did they send you out with some tongs and sticky paper?
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Hmmm - are we getting close to Kayaks? - or have we got a few more zingers for this thread before we burn out.

heh heh heh - still have my curmudgeon certificate - :eek:. , :eek:. , ::) , :LOL:, :LOL:, 8).
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

I bought a fresh sack of zingers at the store this morning. :)
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Little Debies are nice - IMO zingers are better.

heh heh heh - Are we close to asking about Deming and wondering aloud whether a red bead experiment is possible?
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Unfortunately, I was shopping at the 99c store, so the zingers might not be very good or could in fact be irregular...
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Well, someday we may actually have enough data, and reduced the hysteria to the point where we can actually come to a logical conclusion ... but not in this current, circus atmosphere (so to speak ...). ::)

In the meantime:
  • Dishonest "environmentalists" who hate our culture will beat the global warming drum ... not because global warming is necessarily a fact, but because it fits their expectations, and they'll jump on any bandwagon that supports a quasi-religious environmentalism
  • Emerging markets will love seeing the developed markets hamstring their economies, and impoverish their populations while tilting at the global warming windmill
  • Increasing numbers of scientists will develop the cojones to speak out against the excessive stridence currently marketed as "science" ... some are clearly becoming embarrassed by the excesses.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

Charles said:
Well, someday we may actually have enough data, and reduced the hysteria to the point where we can actually come to a logical conclusion ... but not in this current, circus atmosphere (so to speak ...). ::)

In the meantime:
  • Dishonest "environmentalists" who hate our culture will beat the global warming drum ... not because global warming is necessarily a fact, but because it fits their expectations, and they'll jump on any bandwagon that supports a quasi-religious environmentalism
  • Emerging markets will love seeing the developed markets hamstring their economies, and impoverish their populations while tilting at the global warming windmill
  • Increasing numbers of scientists will develop the cojones to speak out against the excessive stridence currently marketed as "science" ... some are clearly becoming embarrassed by the excesses.

I would like to see these enviro dudes pack up and live in a 3rd world country.

These guys are nothing but frauds, punks and anarcists.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

unclemick2 said:
Are we close to asking about Deming and wondering aloud whether a red bead experiment is possible?

We certainly wouldn't expect an objective evaluation of the data to be done. It might not agree with the predetermined solution.

BTW -- the answer is 42.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

I'm reading Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel now.
His books are usually made into movies.
I don't think this one will - it is about exposing the global warming fraud.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

dex said:
I'm reading Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" novel now.
His books are usually made into movies.
I don't think this one will - it is about exposing the global warming fraud.
Yeah. I read that one. I didn't like it as much as many of his others because the protagonist is such an arrogant dick-head. There are a bunch of science oriented Internet sites that pretty thoroughly debunk Crichton's claims.
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

donheff said:
Yeah. I read that one. I didn't like it as much as many of his others because the protagonist is such an arrogant dick-head. There are a bunch of science oriented Internet sites that pretty thoroughly debunk Crichton's claims.

I had the same thought - I wonder why he wrote him that way?
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

dex said:
I had the same thought - I wonder why he wrote him that way?

Because it is entertainmnet and nobody wants to pay for a book and have it be the same as the previous book(s).
 
Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

newguy888 said:
I would like to see these enviro dudes pack up and live in a 3rd world country.

These guys are nothing but frauds, punks and anarcists.

So you disagree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
Are either/both of you saying that there are no enviornmentalists that honestly are concerned about our enviornment?
If not, what DO you call someone who is honestly concerned about the enviornment?
 
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