There goes GE Appliances, sold to Electrolux

[Lsbcal]

I imagine many reading this thread will not bother to mention their good experiences with the same manufacturers that others are complaining about. I too would tend to emphasize the ones that didn't work out over the ones that did.

For us, almost all manufacturers we've used have done OK. Maybe we are just lucky? This includes: Bosch dish washer, Jenn-Air stove top, Thermador oven, LG refrigerator (only 1 year on this one so far). I think we've gotten our money's worth out of most appliances.

 

[mf15]

Perhaps they can now restore the name.
I won't buy anything GE, way way too many problems.
Old Mike

 

[athena53]

I used to work at Appliance Park in Louisville. At the time (early 90's) the only thing that mattered was making the profit and keeping Jack Welch happy. I was not and still not a fan of him. <snip> I will not get into some of the actions that I feel were unethical business practices, driven by the almighty profit. Let's just say I sarcastically call it Generous Electric now and will never buy any GE appliance for myself.

Yep- I worked for an insurer GE owned. Make the numbers at any price. I refer to them as Giant Enterprise.

While I was working there we got a great discount on GE appliances and (knock wood) our washer, dryer and cooktop have served us well- 11 years in the case of the washer and dryer.

If you want a vacuum built in the US, buy Simplicity. There are a few other manufacturers that make SOME vacuums in the USA but not all models.

 

[Bestwifeever]

The only GE appliance we put in our kitchen last year was a built-in microwave. I think we had five repairs on it right away as the door would not open--it has a push button latch, not a pull open door. We were told first the builder screwed up the box, then that it wasn't centered, then it needed a new control panel, then a new door, and finally a new microwave was delivered. Some of the chrome trim fell off too. The most believable repairman said it is just a crappy design.

Not to be left out, our non-GE stove has had two repairs and our non-GE refrigerator one.

I think my parents had an Electrolux vacuum and doesn't Kelly Ripa do their appliance commercials ( so they must be good)?

 

[ERD50]

I used to work at Appliance Park in Louisville. ... After transferring from GE Aircraft Engines in Evendale, OH (Cincinnati); it was a big shock to go from aerospace quality to bare minimum quality. At GE Appliances it was "how can we make it cheaper" - not like it should have been "how can we make it better". I will not get into some of the actions that I feel were unethical business practices, driven by the almighty profit. ...

I can honestly say that quality was important to my old mega-corp, even in the lower end consumer product lines. I can't recall anything I'd consider unethical when it came to the consumer (some internal politics got pretty dirty though).

There were debates about the QC group holding the lowest end products to the same cosmetic standards as some new high end product that was still getting very high 'early adopter' prices, but for the most part, a blemish on a low end product would get it rejected the same as a blemish on the highest end products.

One interesting decision was hotly debated, and considered unethical by some - it turns out that there was a point in time when a new low end product could actually be made cheaper by using the new components we used in the higher end products, and these new components were also lighter (these were portable products, and light weight was highly valued). But the product manager wanted more differentiation between the low and high end, so they added dummy weights to the low end product.

Lots of people thought that was terrible. I didn't, the customer was getting what they paid for - the weight, price, size, performance and features were all published specs. If the customer didn't like it they could buy something else. It was all transparent, so to me, not unethical. But that's as 'bad' as it got, AFAIK. Mega Corp is a shell of its former self, but not because of quality.

[edit/add:] - I now recall that we tracked warranty expenses closely, which were a significant hit to profits. So there was an attitude of 'quality pays', rather than 'quality costs'. But of course there needs to be a balance. And it's absolutely incorrect to think that a quality approach always costs more (even before warranty costs are considered). Often, a cheaper, more streamlined process produced better quality as well. Maybe if those quality metrics were applied to management, Mega-corp would still be a big player.

I do think quality of many items isn't what it should be. I somewhat blame the consumer for that. Many people seem more interested in the latest style and features, and trade in working appliances (or move) before they would wear out. So suppliers respond.

-ERD50

 

[athena53]

The only GE appliance we put in our kitchen last year was a built-in microwave. I think we had five repairs on it right away as the door would not open--it has a push button latch, not a pull open door.

When our builder-installed oven/microwave combo died, DH and I had an oven installed and then had a carpenter build a shelf over it with an empty space for a stand-alone microwave. Great decision. It lasted quite awhile but when it died, replacing it was easy and inexpensive. Built-ins, IMO, may look sleeker but aren't worth the extra expense.

 

[Chuckanut]

Lots of people thought that was terrible. I didn't, the customer was getting what they paid for - the weight, price, size, performance and features were all published specs. If the customer didn't like it they could buy something else. It was all transparent, so to me, not unethical. But that's as 'bad' as it got, AFAIK. Mega Corp is a shell of its former self, but not because of quality.

It might not be unethical, but in an open an fair free-market system, it opens up an opportunity for a competitor to leave the weights out and give the impression of a better product at the same price.

 

[Bestwifeever]

When our builder-installed oven/microwave combo died, DH and I had an oven installed and then had a carpenter build a shelf over it with an empty space for a stand-alone microwave. Great decision. It lasted quite awhile but when it died, replacing it was easy and inexpensive. Built-ins, IMO, may look sleeker but aren't worth the extra expense.

Now you tell me The built-in was so much more $ than a stand-alone and really limited selection. It was a drop in the bucket in percentage of the total cost of the gut-remodel kitchen so we didn't really consider cost, but sooo annoying that the simplest appliance needed so much attention.

 

[Chuckanut]

I do think quality of many items isn't what it should be. I somewhat blame the consumer for that. Many people seem more interested in the latest style and features, and trade in working appliances (or move) before they would wear out. So suppliers respond.

I tend to agree. We Americans are to anxious for latest greatest thing and thus spend our hard earned dollars on pursuing a fantasy. Not this group, of course. We are experts at LBYM so we use things until they fall apart or get dangerous to use.

Perhaps if we focused less on cheap and more on quality we might not have this problem. Cheap is not always the best value.

 

[athena53]

Now you tell me The built-in was so much more $ than a stand-alone and really limited selection.

Well, I'd already been burned in the previous house I owned. Built-in died and I thought it wasn't a big deal. Microwaves are cheap, right? Yes they are unless you need someone to install them. Lesson learned the hard way.

 

[HFWR]

I bought new kitchen appliances in 2009: Kitchen Aid gas range and dishwasher, and Whirlpool refrigerator and microwave. No issues with any yet, and reasonably happy with all but the dishwasher. The lower rack comes off track easily, and the it requires relatively clean dishes, even on the heavy-duty, super-duper wash cycle...

On the other hand, I have a Hotpoint washer/dryer pair, probably two steps up from el-cheapo supremo, which are still going strong after eighteen years.

 

[ERD50]

When our builder-installed oven/microwave combo died, DH and I had an oven installed and then had a carpenter build a shelf over it with an empty space for a stand-alone microwave. Great decision. It lasted quite awhile but when it died, replacing it was easy and inexpensive. Built-ins, IMO, may look sleeker but aren't worth the extra expense.

Agreed. We originally had an over/under oven/range and when that had to be replaced there were almost no models like that anymore. Long story short, I ended up with a built in micro-wave/convention oven with fan, and a conventional oven/stove-top. At the time I really worried that I'd made a mistake. The built in was $$$, and yes, it died 5 years later (GE brand, but I'm not sure others would be any better/worse). Our cheap $70(?) counter-top microwaves lasted longer than that, and no big deal if they did break. Unfortunately, our options are limited, so I bought another built-in to replace it, but skipped the convection oven to bring the cost down some.

RE: weights in a product to make it more 'lower end' to differentiate from higher end products:

It might not be unethical, but in an open an fair free-market system, it opens up an opportunity for a competitor to leave the weights out and give the impression of a better product at the same price.

Absolutely. But we were ahead of the competition - they didn't have the lower weight components yet. The product was a flop anyhow (for different reasons I think), but it may have actually been a good short term move to protect the profit margins on our higher-end product. But all this had to be done with an eye on the competition as well.

I think a more unethical approach would be adding dummy weights to a product where 'heft' is viewed as a sign of quality. If people think that weight reflects structural quality, but they are just dummy weights, that's not right, IMO. If the consumer doesn't have any good measure of structural quality, then it isn't 'transparent', and is tricking the consumer.


RE consumers not pushing for long term quality:

I tend to agree. We Americans are to anxious for latest greatest thing and thus spend our hard earned dollars on pursuing a fantasy. Not this group, of course. We are experts at LBYM so we use things until they fall apart or get dangerous to use.

Perhaps if we focused less on cheap and more on quality we might not have this problem. Cheap is not always the best value.

And sometime 'cheap' is the best value. I often go cheap for things I don't plan to keep a long time or use much, and I like having the option. But sometimes, that view is so prevalent that it is hard to find much choice of real quality products, even when I am willing to pay extra for it.

-ERD50

 

[golfnut]

About 8 yrs ago, we needed a new dw to replace our 15 yr old kitchenaid dw. We went to a small Maytag dealer in our neighborhood. My wife and I had our eye on a Maytag model but I (Mr. Cheapo) was balking at the price. The salesman pointed out they had an Amana dw with the same features and same everything else for about $100 less. Still runs very well.

 

[John Galt III]

Apparently the new GE appliances are cheap crap to be avoided. I don't know if any other brand is any better, however.

But the good news is that if you have an old GE appliance, just hang on to it, and make cheap minor repairs now and then. Knock on wood, I have old 1980's GE Hotpoint washer and drier, GE Hotpoint refrigerator , and GE Hotpoint dishwasher. The only repairs needed since 1986 have been new hinge for the fridge, and a new pump for the washing machine ($24 for the pump and my free 2 hours of labor.)

Oh yeah, when the fridge was about 10 years old, GE came out and replaced the compressor for free, under a recall, even though it was still working fine. I doubt they would do that today.

 

[38Chevy454]

OK, I will provide two examples of what I consider unethical behavior I saw happening when I worked there:
1) take an existing supplier's part that was in production, and then open it up for new group of suppliers to bid. Which then the lowest cost (or slightly lower even) was sent back out as a new target price to the same group of suppliers to squeeze another round of price reductions. So much for supplier loyalty and valuing a long term working relationship. You think a supplier would try to make the best quality part under this scenario?
2) when a supplier comes up with a new technology or process method to make a part for some significant reduction in costs or reliability improvement, the purchasing guy would "leak" that knkowledge to other suppliers and then request new bids that could use that original supplier's advantageous technology or processing. So much for supplier confidentiality. That is theft by my definition.

One of my co-workers said it best "the quickest and fasted way for GE to make money is with a guillotine". Many people's lives were upended and messed with due to layoffs. Note, I am not saying layoffs are always bad as companies do have to adjust workforce size to meet current needs. When the only reason it to increase short term profits, it is bad.

 

[38Chevy454]

BTW, I left GE soon as I was vested. I could not have worked there long term.

 

[target2019]

I have three GE appliances, a fridge, a microwave, and an oven. I went for the low-tech versions, against the wishes of my advisor. Lol. These have lasted about ten years. I expect we'll do more homework next time.

 

[JoeWras]

Recent kitchen upgrade 4 years ago:

- GE range. In the winter, it intermittently "resets" while baking. GE repair replaced stuff, no fix. I should have held their feet to the fire. Now we live it with always having to watch it while baking. Only happens during cool weather (bad connection or flaky circuit board)?

- Samsung Over the Range MWave: fails about once a year and I have to pull out the circuit board and clean the contacts on it. Well known problem ("The Samsung SE error"). Living with it now. Fortunately, the internet has helpful folks like the guy who tells us how to fix this problem. I'm a techie, I can deal with it. Most people can't.

Frankly, buying an appliance today that has a circuit board in it is roulette. It is now hard to get one without a board. They are not building these boards properly! We need some sort of revolt.

The good news (knock on wood) is that my Whirlpool fridge from this time is still OK. How long will that last?

 

[ERD50]

OK, I will provide two examples of what I consider unethical behavior I saw happening when I worked there:

1) take an existing supplier's part that was in production, and then open it up for new group of suppliers to bid. .... So much for supplier loyalty and valuing a long term working relationship. You think a supplier would try to make the best quality part under this scenario?

2) when a supplier comes up with a new technology or process method to make a part for some significant reduction in costs or reliability improvement, the purchasing guy would "leak" that knowledge to other suppliers and then request new bids that could use that original supplier's advantageous technology or processing. So much for supplier confidentiality. That is theft by my definition. ...

#1 can be considered good business (but developing good relationships can also be good business - there's a balance to be made). The quality level should be specified in the contract, I'm not a fan of 'counting' on a supplier to provide some unspecified level of quality. I'm a 'trust, but verify' kind of guy.

#2 sounds illegal if there were NDA's in place, and would get someone fired where I worked, I think.

-ERD50

 

[Walt34]

I'm not surprised at all. Just about every major appliance mfg. makes a line of "builder's specials". Some were resistant to the idea at first, that it would give their brand a bad name over time.

And that's exactly what happened with us. They chose to do that and now their name is mud, at least with us. We will never buy anything made by GE again.

 

[samclem]

I do think quality of many items isn't what it should be. I somewhat blame the consumer for that.

I think it is harder to market/sell improved reliability/maintainability than it is to sell based on looks and new features. A shiny cabinet or color trim is right there to catch the eye of the buyer, and new features can be described right on the box or control knob. It takes years to develop a track record of improved reliability, and many shoppers just don't trust the rating agencies. And how to sell maintainability? "Like every microwave in the world, this one is eventually going to break. But we've designed this machine so you can easily tell what needs to be replaced, every part on this machine can be replaced by removing no more than 6 screws, we have online videos showing you how to do it safely, and we guarantee the parts will be in stock and reasonably priced for the next 15 years. See more at www.greatappliancesyoucanlivewith.com" I'd guess that approach would appeal to 3 people in a hundred, unfortunately. The rest stopped reading when you said the thing would someday break.

 

[Walt34]

I think it is harder to market/sell improved reliability/maintainability than it is to sell based on looks and new features.

Sadly, I think you're quite right. But the folks here are a bit unusual in being able to look for the long-term advantage. There was a time when I swore I'd never buy a Japanese car having grown up in an era when "Made in Japan" had the same stigma that "Made in China" has now, meaning that it was more junk than anything else.

Japan turned that ship around and now I'm driving a Honda because I believe it will be more reliable than American cars.

 

[athena53]

BTW, I left GE soon as I was vested. I could not have worked there long term.

They sold my sub and somehow I ended up vested even though I'd been there (I thought) a shorter time than I had to be to vest- maybe because I was over 50 at the time of the sale? I get $932/month from them. I'll take it.

In the insurance business, a huge part of you liabilities are reserves- for claims you know about and also for claims that have occurred but haven't been reported to you yet. Naturally, this number is VERY mushy (think asbestos and other liabilities that take forever to report and settle). One actuary got so sick of the people at HQ wanting to book the lowest possible number and still get actuarial signoff that she told me, "I tell 'em you can pay me now or you can pay me later". When they sold the unit they had to discount the price a LOT because the buyer didn't like the reserve levels.