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Uninsured motorist insurance
Old 12-30-2011, 11:07 AM   #1
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Uninsured motorist insurance

My insurance policy with Nationwide has been climing to what I now feel is unreasonable for an older 92 Tundra truck I have. I have been with same company for many yrs. (at least 15) So it's renewal time for this truck, and I got a few other quotes for same coverage. We do have to carry a $500,000 liability coverage on all vehicles due to an umbrella policy.

At any rate, I got other quotes for same coverage, and they came in between $560 to $664 per six months. With Nationwide, I have all the discounts, safe driver, no accidents or tickets, good credit, long term customer, multiple car discount, but my six month premium on this
truck is $887 for six months.

Nationwide has us in a "no cancel" policy (which I didn't know), also in an accident forgiveness policy (which I didn't know) and admits that their "uninsurred moterist coverage" is a bit high compared to other insurance companies $360 per yr. Problem is: moving my vehicles to State Farm, my umbrella policy jumps significantly, not warranting the move.

So currently, I am considering dropping the "uninsured motorist" insurance, which has a $100,000 limit on it and only covers medical claims in case of law suit against other driver if they are at fault. If you figure such a scenario and you are permanently disabled, $100,000 is a drop in the bucket, especially when you deduct your lawyers take. So it's not making a lot of mathematical sense to me to carry it.

Would like to hear your experience and thoughts on the matter. I need to decide soon.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:16 AM   #2
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Sounds like Nationwide isn't on your side.

I thought uninsured coverage also covered property damage. Also, what if you have a passenger injured in a wreck, and the (ir)responsible driver is uninsured/underinsured. What if you're not at fault but your car is diverted into the front window of a busy retail establishment causing injuries and $75k in property damages and keeps the business closed for two weeks (loss of income suit?)?

I'm no expert, but your umbrella policy may not cover if you're missing the appropriate first-level insurance.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:19 AM   #3
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This may not help in your decision, but insurance usually seems like a waste of money until you need it. The question is how much risk are you willing to take on yourself?

For my homeowner's, I have a $5000 deductible to keep the premium lower. Is having such a high deductible worth it? I don't know. For me, I could take that risk.

BTW...I used to have Nationwide and liked them. But I'm not that impressed with their new commercials. The Nationwide guy on the commercial seems more silly than funny. Just my opinion. I think the GEICO and Progressive commercials are more entertaining.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:25 AM   #4
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The "Mayhem" commercials are the funniest, although I don't recall which agency they are for and don't make financial decisions based on promotional entertainment.

"Recalculating!"

"You're good!"
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:26 AM   #5
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My understanding is that Uninsured Motorist only covers a portion of medical and some money towards missing income if you are injured. Since I'm retired and have medical I canceled my uninsured motorist when I retired 5 years ago. I see no reason to have it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:34 AM   #6
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I have recent experience I would like to pass along on this subject. DW was in an accident earlier this year.
DW's accident was the other driver's fault. He had insurance. So far, so good.

Just the medical costs (three operations for broken bones and two molars crowned or replaced with an implant) for my wife FAR exceeded the liability coverage the other guy had, which was the minimum, $50K.

Not her fault remember. Who pays the excess over $50K (and pain and suffering if there is any, and trust me, there's been plenty)? It turns out that HER insurance pays the difference through our "no fault insurance" up to the limit of her liability, which is considerably more than the minimum the other guy had.

You can dump your no fault and cross your figures that, a) you never have an accident, or b) if you do, the other guy has more than the minimum. But remember, the majority of drivers will only carry the minimum liability required by law in your state.

But don't forget why you have insurance in the first place, and it's not to see how little money you can save every month. Choose wisely my friend...Tight
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:44 AM   #7
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I don't know enough to tell you what is high or not, but I do know that I shop my insurance rates every year through my Hub International broker. However, I've been with Citizens for my auto and home insurance for the last few years as they have consistently been the best deal for comparable coverage through other providers.

About eight years ago prior to knowing much about insurance rates at all, I was paying around $1,400 every six months for my 2001 Dodge Ram 4x4. I quickly got sick of that and shopped around and cut my cost in half by switching from Progressive to AAA. Then, a couple years or so later I shopped around and found Citizens through Hub International. I'm down to around $100 a month for my 2006 Dodge Ram 4x4 now. Five years newer vehicle and still a lower cost.

The amount of variance between insurance companies is amazing to me.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:04 PM   #8
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I have uninsured motorist coverage. When treat that as like liability -- but not my liability, but instead the unsub (sorry for the reference, I watch too much "Criminal Minds"), then I don't mind paying for this coverage.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:08 PM   #9
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My Nationwide insurance agent told me that the "uninsured motorist insurance" was only for medical claims from injury and or medical awards should you go to court to sue other person, and it had a limit of $100,000. So, if you carry regular health insurance, and you are in an accident doesn't your regular health insurance cover this? (other than dental of course)

I am not sure about the "passenger" aspect of it. That was not mentioned. That could be a consideration, but I'm not clear on how that works.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
My Nationwide insurance agent told me that the "uninsured motorist insurance" was only for medical claims from injury and or medical awards should you go to court to sue other person, and it had a limit of $100,000. So, if you carry regular health insurance, and you are in an accident doesn't your regular health insurance cover this? (other than dental of course)

I am not sure about the "passenger" aspect of it. That was not mentioned. That could be a consideration, but I'm not clear on how that works.
Your posts got me looking at my own insurance policy. In my case, I have both uninsured property and uninsured bodily injury coverage.

Maybe this will help explain things:

Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury Coverage (UMBI)
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
My insurance policy with Nationwide has been climing to what I now feel is unreasonable for an older 92 Tundra truck I have. I have been with same company for many yrs. (at least 15) So it's renewal time for this truck, and I got a few other quotes for same coverage. We do have to carry a $500,000 liability coverage on all vehicles due to an umbrella policy.

At any rate, I got other quotes for same coverage, and they came in between $560 to $664 per six months. With Nationwide, I have all the discounts, safe driver, no accidents or tickets, good credit, long term customer, multiple car discount, but my six month premium on this
truck is $887 for six months.

Nationwide has us in a "no cancel" policy (which I didn't know), also in an accident forgiveness policy (which I didn't know) and admits that their "uninsurred moterist coverage" is a bit high compared to other insurance companies $360 per yr. Problem is: moving my vehicles to State Farm, my umbrella policy jumps significantly, not warranting the move.

So currently, I am considering dropping the "uninsured motorist" insurance, which has a $100,000 limit on it and only covers medical claims in case of law suit against other driver if they are at fault. If you figure such a scenario and you are permanently disabled, $100,000 is a drop in the bucket, especially when you deduct your lawyers take. So it's not making a lot of mathematical sense to me to carry it.

Would like to hear your experience and thoughts on the matter. I need to decide soon.
If you've ever been in the military and were discharged with an honorable or general discharge then you're eligible for USAA vehicle insurance.

If you have any veterans in the immediate family who qualify for USAA membership, then if they join it makes you eligible for membership as well.

Even if you're not eligible for USAA membership, if you use their other financial services (banking, credit card, CDs, investments, mortgages) then they may be able to get you a discount with Progressive.

If you're a Berkshire share owner (currently about $80/share) then you can get an 8% discount from GEICO.

I'm going to presume that you're no longer insuring a '92 for collision or comprehensive. Have you looked at raising your other deductibles to the max?

Have you looked at the change in your umbrella premium if you raise your auto liability limit from $500K to $1M? Does the umbrella premium go down more than the auto liability premium goes up?

We've had higher prices on coverage for older cars because they had higher accident rates. How emotionally attached are you to this old vehicle? Is it worth getting a different pickup for a lower premium?
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:17 PM   #12
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Thanks easysurfer for the link. It is interesting stuff and really gets into all aspects of the insurance and coverage.

I spoke with my Nationwide agent again, and she informed me that with Uninsured Motorist Insurance, the passenger in your vehicle would be covered up to $100,000 provided they resided in your household. (kind of narrows it down) Otherwise, passenger is only covered by their own PIP insurance which is usually $10,000. If their claim was more than that, they would sue you, and that is covered under your liability portion, which in my case is $500,000. Also, there is no personal property coverage under UUI policies here in Florida. That is covered separately.

Just saying, that $360 per yr. x 2 = $720 a year (for max $100,000 each) coverage that will be covered by your medical insurance most likely (less pain and suffering) seems like a lot of extra money to me. If you did not have medical insurance, I would say definitely, yes. Actually, I have all ready dropped my UUI insurance, as I am on Medicare, and don't expect to be dropped due to an accident, but my son is 32, and is self insured, (a whole different story)
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
My insurance policy with Nationwide has been climing to what I now feel is unreasonable for an older 92 Tundra truck I have. I have been with same company for many yrs. (at least 15) So it's renewal time for this truck, and I got a few other quotes for same coverage. We do have to carry a $500,000 liability coverage on all vehicles due to an umbrella policy.
Unfortunately, increased rates happen in hard economic times. People are more likely to file claims and file for claims they normally would have paid on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
At any rate, I got other quotes for same coverage, and they came in between $560 to $664 per six months. With Nationwide, I have all the discounts, safe driver, no accidents or tickets, good credit, long term customer, multiple car discount, but my six month premium on this
truck is $887 for six months.
You've got a pretty old truck. Drop collision if you have it, keep comprehensive, keep UM/UIM/UMPD even with lesser limits than your BI just to provide your truck with physical damage coverage in case of an accident that was not your fault and the other people are uninsured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
Nationwide has us in a "no cancel" policy (which I didn't know), also in an accident forgiveness policy (which I didn't know)....
Most companies have the "no cancel" provision in their policy. That simply means they cannot cancel / non-renew you just because they don't like the color of your eyes - it must be for a valid underwriting reason such as fraud, too many claims, etc.

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<snip>.. admits that their "uninsurred moterist coverage" is a bit high compared to other insurance companies $360 per yr. Problem is: moving my vehicles to State Farm, my umbrella policy jumps significantly, not warranting the move.
That's pretty a high UM/UIM premium. Check to see what the highest limits are you can get under MedPay and PIP as well as the corresponding premium. Your umbrella policy needs to be with your car policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
So currently, I am considering dropping the "uninsured motorist" insurance, which has a $100,000 limit on it and only covers medical claims in case of law suit against other driver if they are at fault. If you figure such a scenario and you are permanently disabled, $100,000 is a drop in the bucket, especially when you deduct your lawyers take. So it's not making a lot of mathematical sense to me to carry it.
I see first party coverage such as UM/UIM/UMPD, MedPay, and PIP from a different point of view. I don't trust anyone to have enough insurance to take care of me and mine in case of an accident. I carrry the absolute highest limits I possibly can on MP and PIP ($100,000 per person). I'm not sure why you think you have to sue to get coverage under your uninsured motorist. It's excess liability IF you have an accident either with an uninsured motorist or someone who's bodily injury coverage is less than your UIM. It's your insurance company's responsibilty to take care of you if their coverage kicks in.

Since you have an umbrella policy, you need to carry at least the minimum limits on UM/UIM to make sure you have excess coverage on your umbrellas. Let me explain - let's say you have an accident and are not at fault. You have extraordinary injuries that far exceed the other person's liability coverage. You need to look to your own policy to take care of you medical bills and rehabilitation. That's where MP and PIP come into play. Now, if you don't have enough coverage under the, then you look to your umbrellas policy to help pay your bills.

Quote:
Would like to hear your experience and thoughts on the matter. I need to decide soon.
It really comes down to what's more important - the premium or the coverage. I carry $1mil on Bodily Injury coverage on the car policy in addition to my umbrella policy with USAA because it's so darn inexpensive. For us, coverage is more important. Let's face it, we're in a litigious society so I would never think about scrimping on third party coverage (bodily injury, property damage) nor would we scrimp on any coverage that would help us get back on our feet as seamlessly and quickly as possible.

It's not just Nationwide that's increasing premiums. Everyone is doing it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:30 PM   #14
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Thanks easysurfer for the link. It is interesting stuff and really gets into all aspects of the insurance and coverage.

I spoke with my Nationwide agent again, and she informed me that with Uninsured Motorist Insurance, the passenger in your vehicle would be covered up to $100,000 provided they resided in your household. (kind of narrows it down) Otherwise, passenger is only covered by their own PIP insurance which is usually $10,000. If their claim was more than that, they would sue you, and that is covered under your liability portion, which in my case is $500,000. Also, there is no personal property coverage under UUI policies here in Florida. That is covered separately.

Just saying, that $360 per yr. x 2 = $720 a year (for max $100,000 each) coverage that will be covered by your medical insurance most likely (less pain and suffering) seems like a lot of extra money to me. If you did not have medical insurance, I would say definitely, yes. Actually, I have all ready dropped my UUI insurance, as I am on Medicare, and don't expect to be dropped due to an accident, but my son is 32, and is self insured, (a whole different story)
Your passengers would be covered under your MedPay and PIP regardless of fault. Nationwide's UM/UIM premium is unreasonably high. If you choose to get a quote from another company, also have them quote your umbrella.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:27 PM   #15
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Perhaps auto insurance coverage features are subject to State regulation and as such there is no pat answer for the residents of all of the 57? states of the U.S??
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:44 PM   #16
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Several years ago, my son was almost killed when his car got t-boned by an under age driver who was fleeing the police at 80+MPH. The kids family had minimal coverage and they had no assets to go after from a law suit perspective. I recovered $50K in medical expenses from their policy, but my sons medical expenses were more than X2.5 that amount. That said, I was thankful that I also had $300K in UIM/UI coverage and he received a full payout from my policy. After that experience, I increased my UIM/UI coverage to $500K, although no amount of money can make up the ordeal he went through and the anguish this caused our family. I find it very disturbing that many states allow people to drive/insure with such meager limits on personal injury, so from my perspective I wouldn't recommend being without such coverage.

Although my son lost a year of college to this accident, we feel blessed that he survived and has done well in his recovery.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:18 PM   #17
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Several years ago, my son was almost killed when his car got t-boned by an under age driver who was fleeing the police at 80+MPH. The kids family had minimal coverage and they had no assets to go after from a law suit perspective. I recovered $50K in medical expenses from their policy, but my sons medical expenses were more than X2.5 that amount. That said, I was thankful that I also had $300K in UIM/UI coverage and he received a full payout from my policy. After that experience, I increased my UIM/UI coverage to $500K, although no amount of money can make up the ordeal he went through and the anguish this caused our family. I find it very disturbing that many states allow people to drive/insure with such meager limits on personal injury, so from my perspective I wouldn't recommend being without such coverage.

Although my son lost a year of college to this accident, we feel blessed that he survived and has done well in his recovery.
Perhaps driving a 2 to 3 ton vehicle with adequate air bag protection is a viable alternative?
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:38 PM   #18
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I appreciate everyone's input. Bodily Injury Liability is different from UUI, as it only pays for the other drivers injuries if you are at fault. PIP (no fault insurance) is limited to a max of $10,000 here in Florida, and I thought in most states.

I am unclear what you are referring to with the relationship between UUI and the Umbrella policy. I did not think I was required to carry UUI in order to obtain the umbrella policy. Also, I don't know what MedPay is. Have not heard the term before. Just researched it. It is what I refer to as PIP (no fault insurance) Also, that was a typo on truck. It is a 2002. Was wondering why you all were saying it was sooooooo old. I know it's almost 10 yrs. old, but didn't think that was really old, old old.

So, back to my original question. If my son has a health insurance policy with no deductibles to speak of, and I have medicare. If he were to get into an accident with another vehicle that did not carry insurance or only the very minimum. Other than being paid for pain and suffering, how could he be financially damaged? Is it just a question of not trusting your health insurance company to cover all your medical costs?

In fact to take it one step further. If we were to get into an accident that was our fault, where is the medical coverage there? The Bodily Injury Liability coverage is for the other car, not yours. The PIP (no fault insurance) is limited to $10,000. leaving the remaining amount to be paid by your health insurance carrier. What am I missing here guys?

I wish one of those recommended organizations applied to me, but unfortunately they don't. But perhaps someone else reading this post will be able to take advantage of.
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:14 PM   #19
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Several years ago, my son was almost killed when his car got t-boned by an under age driver who was fleeing the police at 80+MPH. The kids family had minimal coverage and they had no assets to go after from a law suit perspective. I recovered $50K in medical expenses from their policy, but my sons medical expenses were more than X2.5 that amount. That said, I was thankful that I also had $300K in UIM/UI coverage and he received a full payout from my policy. After that experience, I increased my UIM/UI coverage to $500K, although no amount of money can make up the ordeal he went through and the anguish this caused our family. I find it very disturbing that many states allow people to drive/insure with such meager limits on personal injury, so from my perspective I wouldn't recommend being without such coverage.

Although my son lost a year of college to this accident, we feel blessed that he survived and has done well in his recovery.

I'm confused, if you have car ins.would'nt you be covered? if I had a car accident with no UIM my regular car ins. Would cover me and since I have medical coverage it would cover anything my car ins didn't.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:47 AM   #20
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No, you wouldn't be. Not for medical, unless it was the other persons fault (which could be proved) and the other person had adequate insurance to cover you. Here in Florida for example, they only require a minimum policy of 10,000 per person $20,000 per occurrence. So if they only had the minimum or no insurance, you would only receive a max of $10,000 from your own mandatory PIP coverage. This all varies by states (the amounts)

But the long and short of it is. If you did not purchase the UIM insurance, you would not have any coverage for your medical costs, unless the other vehicle was at fault and had adequate insurance. I understand that what we call PIP here, is called MedPay in other states. But at any rate you could also purchase that with your policy for some personal coverage for medical expenses. I think after some extended reading today that the reason my UIM insurance is so high here in Florida is because of the fact that we have one of the lowest mandatory coverage requirements in the country. Consequently, there is a much larger percentage of people out there with this minimum coverage or just slightly above it. Many people without a lot of assets only buy what is minimally required, which effects the rates for everybody else.
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