We're becoming more illiterate...

[Nords]

I agree. I also see young people having poor problem solving skills. We are now thinking about hiring retirees instead of college students for our seasonal work. To many problems in recent years related to following instructions and understanding the tasks well enough to get them done right.

Did anyone stop to consider that we're just beginning to reap the benefits of "whole reading" and "new math"?

When the military stopped the draft in 1973, most training manuals were written at the sixth-grade level with comic-book illustrations. Forget about college grads-- a significant minority of the troops didn't even have high-school certificates or GEDs, and no intention of obtaining one.

Today the Navy works its manuals at the eighth-grade level or higher. 50% of my shipmates were working on their college degrees, and out of 50 enlisted instructors we'd have four or five get their bachelor's degrees each year and go to OCS.

So I don't think it's the fault of the students. I'm looking at the teachers.

I beleevs it to be bull taco to.  My edukashun were furst klass. Went to one of them thar Univercities where they leart me sum good stuff witch gots me a gud job whar I maks gud muny and I kin retir in a few yars.

I don't know what scares me more:
- that you could force yourself to write like that,
- that I could read it, or
- that I know people who talk like that!

 

[REWahoo]

I don't know what scares me more:
- that you could force yourself to write like that,
- that I could read it, or
- that I know people who talk like that!

- that I'm related to some of them...

 

[sgeeeee]

- that I'm related to some of them...

Wat r u sayin unkle REWahoo? Ain't u proud of usn?

 

[sgeeeee]

. . .So I don't think it's the fault of the students.  I'm looking at the teachers. . .

Partially maybe. But from what I've seen, the bigger problem is administration and legislation. Teachers are severely limited in how they are allowed to interact with students. They really have no authority. Some kids pick up on that and take advantage right away.

 

[Nords]

Partially maybe.  But from what I've seen, the bigger problem is administration and legislation.  Teachers are severely limited in how they are allowed to interact with students.  They really have no authority.  Some kids pick up on that and take advantage right away.

Granted.

But can you really see teachers like 'Ol Rancher being hamstrung by NCLB or the class clowns?

I think that every generation goes to hell in a handbasket when education tries a new experiement. And every generation before them is convinced that civilization is about to hurtle headlong over a cliff. However I'm encouraged when I read articles about 10-year-old boys learning to read in mere weeks when they discover that the XBox cheat codes are in magazines or on the Internet.

But the good teachers will keep the flames going, and good students will thrive in any environment. The trick is running the type of business that attracts the good teachers & students. If no one's having fun or making money for their efforts, then there's no benefit or motivation to pursuing literacy.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

- that I'm related to some of them...

As long as you're not having children with any of these relatives...

How about the other factors...increasing class sizes, shrinking budgets, challenges of teaching in a very different culture from 20-30 years ago, having to increase the teaching pool to handle the increasing student body.

School was almost a complete waste of time to me. The regular classes moved too slowly and ponderously to keep my attention. I sat in the back of the class and read books, scribbled, wrote stories and eventually became the class clown. I was moved into a remedial class for about 14 minutes, which was hilarious. I actually remember the class teacher calling one of the school administrators and in a hushed tone saying "no, he's not an idiot, he's a genius. didnt anyone actually talk to him?". So they put me into the advanced classes, where apparently 'advanced' meant 'memorize a lot of worthless stuff'. Once again, I couldnt have been less interested.

I had the same problems once I had control over my own courses. I put myself in chemistry 1A and at the end of the first class, the teacher advised us to memorize the electron valences of all the elements for a test the following day. By the end of the day I gave him my transfer paperwork. The only other class that still had availability was Chem III where we lit stuff on fire and blew stuff up and laughed about it.

And this was 3 decades ago when the schools were supposedly better.

One decent thing the old catholic school I was in for kindergarten and first grade did was teach me to read and write. The public schools I was in after that were a waste of everyones time.

 

[TomSimpsonAZ]

Man....the pool of intelligent people we have to choose from for presidential nominees is getting smaller.....


:


"The world is full of B and C students" -- Chris Rock

 

[sgeeeee]

Man....the pool of intelligent people we have to choose from for presidential nominees is getting smaller.....


:


"The world is full of B and C students" -- Chris Rock

Think about how stupid the average person you know is. Now think about the fact that half the population is dumber than him.

-- George Carlin

 

[justin]

Think about how stupid the average person you know is. Now think about the fact that half the population is dumber than him.

-- George Carlin

Should be median person instead of "average" person. Unless intellect is normally distributed. Maybe I'm overthinking this.

 

[sgeeeee]

Should be median person instead of "average" person.  Unless intellect is normally distributed.  Maybe I'm overthinking this. 

Well . . . yes you are overthinking this. But IQ scores are normally distributed. Intelligence is formally defined as nothing more than your score on an IQ test, so this would make sense if he were talking about intelligence rather than stupidity. But I'm not aware of a formal definition of stupid or a test to measure it.

 

[Sheryl]

What really brings home the declining level of literacy to me is the quality of published material.   Putting aside our podunk small town paper, what I see in major newspapers, national news magazines, even advertising copy from major corporations is appalling.   It's not just grammatical mistakes and poorly constructed sentences but a general "dumbing down" of vocabulary and even concepts.  

Sad.

 

[ladelfina]

Overheard angry boyfriend to girlfriend: "I can't listen to you; you speak in paragraphs!!"

 

[MikeD]

"What a illitrit!", as my grandfather used to say. Even as children, we recognized that there was no need to emulate Grampa.

Mike D.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

http://tinyurl.com/7gf85
And now we're going to tie teachers pay to how well the students score on tests.

Anyone want to quip about how the teachers are going to sacrifice actual learning in favor of high performance on the specific tests, or how long it is before someone figures out how to game the system?

EDIT to reduce size of URL as I am looking at a tiny screen instead of a 32 incher

 

[justin]

Went to the post office yesterday to get some $0.02 cent stamps. Waited in line for a while. I told the clerk I needed eighty of the two cent stamps and three of the one cent stamps.

The customer next to me walked up to the counter and ordered ten dollars worth of 2 cent stamps. The friendly and helpful USPS clerk politely informed the customer that she has to know how many stamps the customer needs. "$10.00 worth". The clerk says "I know, but how many 2 cent stamps do you want? I need to know how many you want." The customer replies, "$10.00 worth. I want however many $10.00 will buy me". This dialogue went back and forth for a while.

The whole time, I had a hard time repressing "500, 500, 500" out of my mind. I paid for my $1.63 worth of stamps, and walked out. I had to fight the urge to give my two cents on their math dilemma and blurt out "500". I just didn't want to get embroiled in that epic battle of wits.

Judging from the ages of the customer and clerk, they were both the product of our education system of 20-30 years ago. Pretty sad...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sounds like the time I went into macdonalds and the cash registers were a little broken. They still rang up orders, gave a total and the cash drawer opened, but they didnt tell the cashier how much change to give. I cant imagine what kind of system failure would result in a partial operation like that, but there it was.

All the cashiers had to ask the manager how much change to give.

Granted, these may not have been the brightest bulbs around, but unable to do simple subtraction when in your late teens?

 

[Sheryl]

Sounds like the time I went into macdonalds and the cash registers were a little broken. They still rang up orders, gave a total and the cash drawer opened, but they didnt tell the cashier how much change to give.  I cant imagine what kind of system failure would result in a partial operation like that, but there it was.

All the cashiers had to ask the manager how much change to give.

Granted, these may not have been the brightest bulbs around, but unable to do simple subtraction when in your late teens?

This is one of my all time most enraging pet peeves!!!!!!!  I just go out of my mind when a cashier cannot understand the concept of making change.   I want to scream and rage and throw things at them.....  (oops that was a different thread about female hormones, sorry). 

But seriously!   

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sorry about upsetting you m'am. May I offer you a free Early-Retirement.Org branded donkey?

 

[Sheryl]

Do I have to be able to tell it from a whole hole in the ground?

Oh, and don't call me Ma'am!

   

 

[justin]

Do I have to be able to tell it from a whole in the ground?

Nope. It is one of those talking donkeys. Just ass-k him whether he's a donkey.

 

[Howard]

I bought a pair of socks in a Men's Store in West Palm Beach, payed for them with cash, clerk had to get manager to show him how to handle the transaction, everyone else uses plastic.

 

[justin]

I bought a pair of socks in a Men's Store in West Palm Beach, payed for them with cash, clerk had to get manager to show him how to handle the transaction, everyone else uses plastic.

What did you expect in West Palm Beach!!

 

[Sheryl]

Nope.  It is one of those talking donkeys.  Just ass-k him whether he's a donkey.

So you are the one who ass-napped Dolly

http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=5523.0

 

[WanderALot]

My friend and I were somewhere close to Mojave, CA when we went into a Subway. After the girl made his sandwich, my friend asked if they take Discover. She answers 'yes' and then slides the card about 2-3 times before saying .....

"Ooh, I'm sorry, we only take Discover cards that have a Mastercard logo on them".

My friend, who is usually a smart ass, looks at me, and then quietly gives her his Mastercard and we walked out of the store just shaking our heads.

 

[Nords]

"Ooh, I'm sorry, we only take Discover cards that have a Mastercard logo on them".

My friend, who is usually a smart ass, looks at me, and then quietly gives her his Mastercard and we walked out of the store just shaking our heads.

Your best lines would be sadly wasted on them.

But just imagine what Jerry Seinfeld could do!