Which car ?
- Thread starter Moemg
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Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
Leonidas
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I don't buy new Toyotas for the same reason.Toyota dealers in the US seem particularly adept at boosting margins with "profit packages".
I shopped for a new Toyota here in Texas a few years ago and ran into something called "Gulf States Toyota Distributors (GST)". This company apparently owns the franchise rights to every new Toyota vehicle sold in Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Texas. Every dealer I talked to had GST add-on packages of $1,000-2,000 on every vehicle. Here is an example of the two most common, found on every new Camry I looked at:
Rip-off city. None would sell a car without it, telling me it was "added at the port" and they were powerless to remove it.
I did not buy a new Toyota and never will - at least not while they play these games.
I used to socialize with a number of top GST execs and friends and families. In fact, I was thinking of them when I wrote this post several years ago. http://www.early-retirement.org/for...aving-money-for-er-fi-21594-3.html#post399469.
With only two exceptions they were a miserable group of human beings and I'm glad to be shed of them. With just a hint of schadenfreude I report that all but one have undergone bitter divorces, and/or lost everything they had in some ill-advised non-auto business deal, or their kids turned out to be miserable little snots in trouble with drugs and the law. They still make tons of buck on those Toyos though.
Rustic23
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When we purchased our Pilot, the dealer had to get the car from another dealer. When the car arrived it had a 'package' floor mats, mud guards, rear interior mat and such. My dealer said, 'Hey, looks like your are going to get all that for free'. No quibble.
Just for fun I went onto Auto Trader to see if any dealers out there had any Venza's for under 25K. Out of hundreds, not a one did I see!
As you say, "fully optioned" these Venza's are around 39K. With the more basic Venza coming in just under 30K.
So, don't be surprised if you go to you local Toyota/ripoff dealer and this car doesn't exist. If it does, as you state "fully optioned" the fees will be around 14k or so. No free lunch!
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
You are right . The Venza's that I saw were 2009 's with low mileage and I was surprised that they were selling for that price so I went to Edmond's and 25,000 is the price for low mileage Toyota venza's .I was so surprised because low mileage CRV's or Rav's are only $500 cheaper than new . The Venza is a very very nice car but too large for me I like smaller cars .
NW-Bound
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That car is just barely broken in. It has got another 100K mi to go. Don't we drive our car to the ground anymore? Am I the only one still doing that?
Rustic23
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I just looked on Edmunds.com for the Houston. The most expensive base model with the luxury #2 package is coming is $30,900 for what people are paying. Don't know if you can walk out anywhere that. Maybe someone that has purchased in Houston has an idea.
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
That car is just barely broken in. It has got another 100K mi to go. Don't we drive our car to the ground anymore? Am I the only one still doing that?
The only reason I am looking at cars is that both our cars ( mine & SO ) are eleven years old so I am concerned about longer trips but if I do not find a car I like at a price I like I will drive this car until it stops and then get a ride to a car dealership and buy a car .
NW-Bound
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My 95 Nissan minivan got 160K mi, yet is so reliable I would not hesitate to take it for a trip. We prefer it over the other car, a Nissan SUV, because the minivan gets 25mpg on the highway, while the SUV gets 20. So, that SUV sits inside the garage and gets driven only 25K mi after 7 years! The minivan is also a more comfortable ride.
PS. I was just teasing about people buying a new car. One cannot take it with her, right? I myself am indifferent to a new car, actually cars in general, but if one brings one pleasure, then why not, if it can be afforded?
PS. I was just teasing about people buying a new car. One cannot take it with her, right?
I myself am indifferent to a new car, actually cars in general, but if one brings one pleasure, then why not, if it can be afforded?
I just finished up a car hunt. Go look at Subaru's they have a good balance of excellent reliability, fuel mileage and sporty fun to drive feel. They also make several small SUVs.
In 2007 we were looking for a smaller vehicle that had good storage. We strongly considered the CRV. We've had Honda's in the past and been happy with them, and I currently drive an Acura TL and turned 100K miles yesterday with no major problems.
We ended up buying the Mazda 5 and are very happy with this vehicle. The Mazda 5 is very highely rated by Consumer Reports and is their top recommended "budget" family vehicle, based upon the most current issue. Similarly optioned to the CRV, it cost about $5K less. It is essentially a micro-minivan, with about the same space inside as the CRV. It is a bit longer but a bit narrower.
The Mazda handles excellently when compared to pretty much anything else in its class and is very maneuverable. It is rides like Honda used to be - a bit noisier ride, fairly firm, but with outstanding steering feel and a very tight turning circle. We love the sliding doors -- you have a big opening and don't have to worry about dinging other cars. It is lower than an SUV like CRV, but taller than a sedan, so you neither need to step down into it or up into it. For us it is the perfect size. It also gets better mileage than the CRV. You can seat 6 with very little storage, or seat 4 with a lot of cargo room.
We are at 70K miles on it and have had only one issue (suspension bushings recall, fixed free by dealer).
We ended up buying the Mazda 5 and are very happy with this vehicle. The Mazda 5 is very highely rated by Consumer Reports and is their top recommended "budget" family vehicle, based upon the most current issue. Similarly optioned to the CRV, it cost about $5K less. It is essentially a micro-minivan, with about the same space inside as the CRV. It is a bit longer but a bit narrower.
The Mazda handles excellently when compared to pretty much anything else in its class and is very maneuverable. It is rides like Honda used to be - a bit noisier ride, fairly firm, but with outstanding steering feel and a very tight turning circle. We love the sliding doors -- you have a big opening and don't have to worry about dinging other cars. It is lower than an SUV like CRV, but taller than a sedan, so you neither need to step down into it or up into it. For us it is the perfect size. It also gets better mileage than the CRV. You can seat 6 with very little storage, or seat 4 with a lot of cargo room.
We are at 70K miles on it and have had only one issue (suspension bushings recall, fixed free by dealer).
Ronstar
Moderator Emeritus
The only reason I am looking at cars is that both our cars ( mine & SO ) are eleven years old so I am concerned about longer trips but if I do not find a car I like at a price I like I will drive this car until it stops and then get a ride to a car dealership and buy a car .
Do you have AAA? I just got it - worked out great when the battery on my 150k mile jeep died. It makes me less concerned driving an older vehicle on longer trips - and they would probably drive you to the dealership if your car stops.
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
Thanks Surfdaddy & Janet I will check out Subaru & Mazda . I can only handle two dealerships a day before I'm BS out .
ls99
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That car is just barely broken in. It has got another 100K mi to go. Don't we drive our car to the ground anymore? Am I the only one still doing that?
No. See my post earlier, 212000+ daily driver.
brewer12345
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Moemg, just a thought: see if a dealership in your area for these brands has an internet sales person. If you contact them ahead of time and tell them you want to come in for a test drive and are not ready to buy, you might head off the attack by the pack of jackals.
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
Thanks I did do that with Honda & Toyota so I guess I'll continue with Subaru & Mazda .
Bestwifeever
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Moemg, I'm enjoying this thread--you are the unofficial e-r.org virtual car-shopper! Can't wait to see which car you choose and why.
Telly
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I/We started looking at small SUV's about 3 years ago, in preparation for a replacement in the 2010 model year. No sense doing anything hasty
Did not look at the Saturn VUE at first, because they were going to replace it with a new design. Saw & sat in the new one at an auto show. It was just a rebadged Opel whatever. European design, all swoopy, no room. They wrecked the concept. RIP.
Toyota RAV4, dropped it out early on because of the wrong-swinging rear door to Japanese side of the street, and spare mounted on the back. More on rear-mounted spares later...
Honda CR-V, the intro of the 3rd (present) generation fixed my objections to the previous designs. They got rid of the wrong-swinging door with tire on back, and went to a hatch with tire inside. That was good, as cars with the tire on the back suffer severe damage with even a small tap on the back, if that tire gets hit. Talked with a Honda guy at an auto show, he agreed, said generation 2 design was minimum $4k damages with small hit in rear, would bend up the whole hatch opening area of the body, in addition to the obvious tailgate/window/tire mounting destruction.
So they fixed many of my don't likes, but still have the gotcha's on equipment that pushes one to the top of the line to get darkened rear glass, cruise control, intermittant speed windshield wipers. You have to check their package lists very carefully. Games.
But we dropped out the CR-V eventually. They have created probably the worst rear side window body design ever. It is ugly, and it doesn't get better looking at it in time. It also reduces cargo room. And reduces driver visibility. If you test-drive one, really see if you will be comfortable with that blind spot in traffic. One wrong move is all it takes to try out your umbrella insurance
And with the reduced cargo area with the rear slanting in as compared to the generation 2. Consumer Reports even mentioned those in their review of the first year of the gen. 3. And it has to be bad for CR to ever say anything negative about a Honda at all. But see for yourself.
Our winner was a 2010 Ford Escape FWD 4 cylinder. The Escape has improved greatly, even though CR screwed up their reliability chart on it (those clowns) vs. their check-system. 2008 was an improved body design, 2009 brought improved 4 & 6 cylinder engines and a 6-speed automatic. A 2009/10 4 cyl. accelerates just as fast as a 2008 or before V6. The 4cyl. is fine, it goes when needed and doesn't sound like a 4-banger of old. Inside room is great for tall people, top of the windshield is well forward, top of side windows not near head, etc. It's boxy, and to us, that is what a SUV should be, or else just get a car instead. Even though it's boxy, a lot of attention was paid to streamlining little bits, so interstate travel is quiet at speed.
BTW, it has the highest US-content of any vehicle made in the USA, and is made not far from UncleMic!
Did not look at the Saturn VUE at first, because they were going to replace it with a new design. Saw & sat in the new one at an auto show. It was just a rebadged Opel whatever. European design, all swoopy, no room. They wrecked the concept. RIP.
Toyota RAV4, dropped it out early on because of the wrong-swinging rear door to Japanese side of the street, and spare mounted on the back. More on rear-mounted spares later...
Honda CR-V, the intro of the 3rd (present) generation fixed my objections to the previous designs. They got rid of the wrong-swinging door with tire on back, and went to a hatch with tire inside. That was good, as cars with the tire on the back suffer severe damage with even a small tap on the back, if that tire gets hit. Talked with a Honda guy at an auto show, he agreed, said generation 2 design was minimum $4k damages with small hit in rear, would bend up the whole hatch opening area of the body, in addition to the obvious tailgate/window/tire mounting destruction.
So they fixed many of my don't likes, but still have the gotcha's on equipment that pushes one to the top of the line to get darkened rear glass, cruise control, intermittant speed windshield wipers. You have to check their package lists very carefully. Games.
But we dropped out the CR-V eventually. They have created probably the worst rear side window body design ever. It is ugly, and it doesn't get better looking at it in time. It also reduces cargo room. And reduces driver visibility. If you test-drive one, really see if you will be comfortable with that blind spot in traffic. One wrong move is all it takes to try out your umbrella insurance
And with the reduced cargo area with the rear slanting in as compared to the generation 2. Consumer Reports even mentioned those in their review of the first year of the gen. 3. And it has to be bad for CR to ever say anything negative about a Honda at all. But see for yourself.Our winner was a 2010 Ford Escape FWD 4 cylinder. The Escape has improved greatly, even though CR screwed up their reliability chart on it (those clowns) vs. their check-system. 2008 was an improved body design, 2009 brought improved 4 & 6 cylinder engines and a 6-speed automatic. A 2009/10 4 cyl. accelerates just as fast as a 2008 or before V6. The 4cyl. is fine, it goes when needed and doesn't sound like a 4-banger of old. Inside room is great for tall people, top of the windshield is well forward, top of side windows not near head, etc. It's boxy, and to us, that is what a SUV should be, or else just get a car instead. Even though it's boxy, a lot of attention was paid to streamlining little bits, so interstate travel is quiet at speed.
BTW, it has the highest US-content of any vehicle made in the USA, and is made not far from UncleMic!
That car is just barely broken in. It has got another 100K mi to go. Don't we drive our car to the ground anymore? Am I the only one still doing that?
No, you're not the only one. I bought a 1985 Chevy pickup new and kept that for 18 years, replacing it with a new 2003 GMC pickup that I expect to keep for 20+ years. DW kept her '89 Olds Cierra for 14 years/140k miles and now has 106k miles on the 2003 Buick Century. Both have been very reliable but I'm meticulous (some say anal) about maintenance. Barring theft or accident I expect to get 200k miles or more from each mostly because we don't have the heavy stop-and-go traffic that we had in the DC area.
Then there's the 2008 Suzuki C90T motorcycle that I use if the temps are between 25 and the low 90's if the pavement is dry. There's just something "wrong" about taking a 2.5 ton pickup to pick up a prescription. I have 13k miles on that in 18 months.
When replacement time comes for DW's car we'll take a hard look at the Honda Fit and similar cars. And a neighbor has a Ford Focus that he's happy with.
rescueme
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I purchased my '89 Olds Cutlass Cierra new and ran it for over 18 years (100K+).
Never spent a dime on "strange stuff", other than battery, brakes, muffler/tailpipe a few times.
Funny thing about the muffler. After the first, the next three (we live in "salt country") were free. Still had to pay for the connecting pipes. At least these days (with SS pipes) the rust is not as much as a problem.
My "baby" is an '02 Mustang GT vert, which just turned 18k. I'm sure to pass before it does, but it's my "compensation car" (paid for with my VA disability check, and to compensate me for my "lost youth" due to the draft). Even if I can't drive it years from now, I'll be happy to be in it (parked in the driveway), with the top down, a good book, and a glass of wine to enjoy...
Moemg
Gone but not forgotten
Well the car search continues . I test drove the Honda CRV . Very nice car but I am not sure I want a SUV . I drove the Accord also nice but it's a little boring . They gave me a good price for the CRV . I like it a lot but I'm not in love with it . I then stopped at Nissan and test drove the altima . Also very nice and sportier than the Accord . All in all it's frustrating because I haven't seen a car I'm crazy about but the car buying experience is the same at every dealership whether you went through their Internet or not . Take a book and find the humor in it because they all do the same thing especially since there was no way I was buying a car until I was sure they had to bring out the big guns . Honda & Nissan both wanted me to take the car for a week to try it out . No way was I doing that . I was pretty much settled on the Nissan. I thought I got a great deal but it seems like there is still room for negotiations . I'm also going to check out the Accord coupe . I just like a sportier look . I looked at the Honda Insight ( a Hybrid ) . Nice car until I was going to take a test drive and realized you can not see out of the back window . It's so tiny you would be driving with limited visibility .
DangerMouse
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Telly interesting that you passed over the CRV for an Escape. We went from an Escape to the CRV. Found the design of the CRV to be much more pleasing, better engine and it also offered better stability on the road. Isn't the base of the Escape more like a truck? I found if you went to fast on the freeway in the Escape it always had the sensation as if it could roll very easily.
