Who Knows about Milk?

[ladelfina]

There's a brand of milk they sell here that comes in a high-tech container. It's light-proof, and you actually have to break into a plastic seal that is continuous with the pkg. There's no way for even a molecule of air or anything else to get into it; it's like milk in a pod. I noticed it lasts almost 2x as long once opened as the regularly packaged milk. Costs the same.

Here is the TetraPak container seal (top views):
Tetra Pak Italia - Impianto confezionamento alimentare, sistema di apertura
This soft plastic also forms the screw-on base for the outer lid, and the shoulder of the "bottle".. then somehow it merges into a series of paper, plastic and film layers.

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A good way to use up milk that may not as 'pure'-tasting as you'd like, but is not sour or rotten (there's a difference), is to make a kind of "ricotta" cheese with it:

-Heat milk til scalding.
-Take it off the heat and add white/cider vinegar or lemon juice and stir until it curdles. About 2-3 tbsp./ half-gallon. If the liquid isn't clear you may need a little more acid.
-Cover and let cool.
-Strain through cheesecloth. Really squeeze out the liquid (whey).
-Add salt to taste.

This tastes WAY better than industrial ricotta, although I have only tried it with whole milk.

A fun experiment, better than pouring it down the drain!

 

[Rustic23]

I wonder if milk would last longer if they sold it the the same type of container as boxed wine. No air would ever get in. I'm sure someone on this board knows.

 

[W2R]

One advantage to becoming used to skim milk, is that (amazingly) nonfat dry milk does not seem too bad, mixed with water.

When my fresh milk runs out, I just make milk from dry milk, by the glass.

 

[Webzter]

> nonfat dry milk does not seem too bad, mixed with water.

Can't do it.. too many memories as a kid with goverment cheese, peanut butter and dry milk. We'd trade away the imitation velveeta block for more peanut butter, but still. More power to you, though. That dry milk really is awesome stuff... Keeps forever!

Honestly though, I almost never touch milk now. My wife can't have much milk fat, but she can handle yogurt fine. So, I use yogurt a lot, even substituting it for milk with my cereal. I also use rice milk when needed (frosting mainly).

 

[Rustic23]

We mix 1/2 dry milk with 2%. Taste like milk. Saves on cash.

 

[greg]

I've gradually reduced my use of regular store bought cheese. I don't want all the salt and chemicals. I recently found out about panir. It's a fresh cheese made on the stove: boil up two quarts of milk, add juice from abut one or two lemons, and stir until the fresh cheese separates from the whey. I use it in stir fries and soups. It's very good with spinach.

Paneer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also read a story recently about milk in clear or opaque plastic containers and reactions under floro lights. Supposedly, not good.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

BBC News | Health | Milk fat knocks out sex diseases

so there really are benefits of incorporating food into sexuality.

(and they talk about me hijacking threads)

 

[dumpster56]

You guys still drink milk? Calcium from better sources.

 

[d]

milk is good food! not that i have anything to really add to the conversation, but that's never stopped me before. i drink a fair amount of milk for an adult (1.5 gal/wk), and have use skim only for more than 30 years -- it does take some gettin' used to, but once i became accustomed, it became and remains a clear preference. similarly, before i was able to get fresh skim i used dry non-fat -- that really took a while to get used to, but as long as it was cold, it was fine.

on the other end of the stick, i spent some time in Venezuala where the milk was fresh daily (in the cow that AM), and the milk-fat was not reduced to the standard 4%(?) as in the US ... it was wonderful! (but comming from skim, it took some gettin' used to as well)

 

[73ss454]

I as d drink about 1 1/2 gallons on milk a week. Also skim only for as long as I can remember. Gotta have milk to wash down the cake, no?

 

[thefed]

man, all this talk makes me want a glass! BUT, im lactose intolerant. So it's soy or nothing for me. Forget those pills....they dont work with straight milk, sometimes they work okay for a little cheese, a smallish cone, or something along those lines. sometimes lactaid doesnt even sit right



i figure my body is rejecting it ... so i don't need to be putting that in my body. some people argue that fact saying it's 'just' me lacking an enzyme so with the enzyme, it's okay to drink. Well, regardless of the science behind it, my body cant digest it without artificial assistance...so no thanks

 

[Khan]

I grew up on and around small farms. In the spring, the cows just loved grazing on green onions. Most people didn't want onion milk. There were some folks of Latvian background who would buy it to make onion butter (a traditional favorite).

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Most milk taste changes are a result of feed changes or ingredient component swap out. I notice it in the spring and fall when the cows are flipped from grass feeding to hay. Theres a sudden small taste change and then I get used to it.

All y'all paying extra for organic milk might want to take a closer look at the ingredients and do a google search on the brand. Many organic milk products are made from powdered milk produced in other countries where the word "organic" has a different meaning. For example some countries that are major milk suppliers allow the use of hormones and antibiotics if the animal requires it and the definition of "requires" is pretty dang open.

The problems with organic is that due to the big boom in demand, the small US based sleepy hippy farms that used to produce actual organic before the new millennium cant keep up with the huge demand, so a lot of the production is being outsourced.

I really *wanted* to buy organic milk for Gabe, but it seemed that a lot of the options I had available to me were powdered maybe organics, which I decided just werent going to be worth the price vs fresh whole milk from cows I see grazing around town locally. IIRC finding stuff that has the "USDA Organic" label on it assures at least some decent level of true organic-ness. Stuff simply stamped "organic" without the USDA stamp is a big question mark.

You also have to pay attention to categories where organic isnt even defined. For example, there is no standard or definition for seafood or make-up, so I could condense sewage sludge and raise seafood in it or put a paste of it into a lipstick tube and call it organic.

I've also noticed that the "cheaper" milks have lots of ingredients. Milk, nonfat milk, powdered milk, milk solids. Seems they're creating a milk from a variety of sources, probably the cheapest available. Changes in these "mixes" probably creates some taste changes from one batch to another. IMO it also opens up the door for bad things to creep into the milk or quality to be reduced. So I only allow milk with two ingredients now. Milk, and vitamin D. Milk with 5-6 ingredients goes back on the shelf.

I've found that I can buy the brand name "expensive", two ingredient milk at costco for the same price as the "cheap" 6 ingredient milk at the supermarket.

 

[TromboneAl]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll check out Costco today -- maybe they'll have some free milk samples.

I wonder where the milk I buy comes from originally -- that is, are the cows somewhat local? Can you ship it around the country fast enough?

In the past, if I've bought something organic, it's not because of the organicness, but because I figured the company took more care with the product. Now, "organic" has been appropriated by the huge corporations, and doesn't mean much anymore.

I will hereby coin the term "mega-organic." You heard it here first.

 

[bright eyed]

gosh darnit cfb where would we be without you? all the retired folks should take on the task of thoroughly researching our food products/options so us workin folks can take a breather!

so now i opened my fridge and looked at the milk jug i have there now...1 gallon trader joe's whole milk organic...ingredients "organic grade" milk and vitamin d3...

it says organic assured by QAI... which is apparently a for profit set up QAI, World's Largest Organic Certifier, Still in Bed with Horizon & Aurora Certifying Factory Farm Practices as 'Organic'

i just want to eat some good food that won't make me or my kids sick or start their menstruation before they hit the age of 12, make them hyper or obese...is that too much to ask!

 

[ERD50]

i just want to eat some good food that won't make me or my kids sick or start their menstruation before they hit the age of 12, make them hyper or obese...is that too much to ask!

You should be glad you live in modern times. We have the safest, cheapest food available to us in history. Of course you can buy cheap junk too, but it isn't too hard to figure out that sugar candy/cereal isn't the best thing to base your diet on.

There is no evidence that BGH is dangerous to humans.

Canada's health board, Health Canada, commissioned a study which found "no biologically plausible reason for concern about human safety if rbST* were to be approved for sale in Canada.

*Bovine somatotropin (bST), or bovine growth hormone (BGH),

IOW, there are much bigger things to worry about. Anyone who makes a special trip or goes out of their way to buy organic is probably taking a much higher risk by being on the road an extra minute.

Over 40,000 deaths a year in traffic accidents, many more serious injuries, but deaths and injuries from our food supply are pretty rare. And some are from organic food (salmonella).

Misplaced concerns IMO.

-ERD50

 

[Webzter]

Well, I guess it has been a while since I've bought milk, or, I've never paid attention to size. A gallon of Organic Valley is going for $6.49 at the local store. The other brands are a about $2 less. They also sell a non-homogenized, grass-fed brand that sells for a little more...

 

[UncleHoney]

I just bought 2 gallons of milk for $2.99/gal at Krogers. Central Ohio prices.

We go through about 2 gallons a week, 1 skim and 1 2%.

 

[greg]

You should be glad you live in modern times. We have the safest, cheapest food available to us in history. Of course you can buy cheap junk too, but it isn't too hard to figure out that sugar candy/cereal isn't the best thing to base your diet on.

There is no evidence that BGH is dangerous to humans.

*Bovine somatotropin (bST), or bovine growth hormone (BGH),

IOW, there are much bigger things to worry about. Anyone who makes a special trip or goes out of their way to buy organic is probably taking a much higher risk by being on the road an extra minute.

Over 40,000 deaths a year in traffic accidents, many more serious injuries, but deaths and injuries from our food supply are pretty rare. And some are from organic food (salmonella).

Misplaced concerns IMO.

-ERD50

ERD50:

Raining here today.

"the safest, cheapest food . . . in history" I just don't know if that is even close to true. First, we do have loads of food (that comes mostly from the middle of the store) that is just loaded with various preservatives of all sorts--including salts. Many of these chemicals inhibit the natural breakdown of food, slow it down quite a bit, reducing methane release, bla, bla. Many of these chemicals simply retard seeing and smelling and tasting decay. And I won't mention red dye #?? which is used to make things appear fresher. What we do have in this country is a large quantity of food available that doesn't make you immediately sick.

Personally, that is not 'safe' as far as I'm concerned. By way of example, salt: We know blood pressure on average is way up in this country and many other modern and well off countries. We know salt, at minimum aggravates and raises BP. Salt, and I would say excessive salt, is an important ingredient in bread products. Fresh bread usually has less salt in it; typical Merkin bread that sits on a shelf for a week or two then at home for a week or two before getting moldy is full of salt and other preservatives. This is what prevents decay, and it also causes some (and maybe many) of the health problems folks face, especially as they grow older. Those preservatives slow mold down. Our food only has the appearance of safety.

In a sense, we are just trading one set of health problems for another in many cases IMO. The poor folks in Africa may have better blood pressure but there is a trade off in that they have many other contagious, etc. health problems. If they drink their milk directly out of the cow, they do pretty well, unless that cow is licking arsenic all day or some other toxin or being injected with some semi-toxin. Our food may appear cheap, but we pay for all that preservative use near the end of life (IMO) with incredibly high health care costs and pills that hide symptoms. Using your typical argument for things, food is not cheap. You need to include all the costs and consequences of eating it, not just the price at checkout.

Finally, we don't as yet know what is really going on in food with all the things we've started adding to it in the past fifty years especially. Sure, the gov't says we can safely eat 3 parts/million of lead or 7 parts/million of mercury or 14 parts/million of cow growth hormone, whatever those number are, but the tests that determined that are, to my knowledge, done in isolation from each of the other sets of tests--e.g. a small amount of lead is safe in isolation from a small amount of arsenic. But we actually combine all those things in our body when we ingest bread, meat, veggies, and milk all in one meal. And if we nuke in plastic in the microwave I don't think anyone knows what really is happening inside us. We have ingested a largish number, yet small individual (and safe?) amounts, of toxins. I suspect that for a few these are black swan events not yet quite emergent in consciousness. For others they may just accumulate for decades then one day explode in some form, perhaps as cancer or heart disease, or some other [-]modern western health problem[/-] thing.

There are millions of deaths each year from degenerative diseases, heart disease, cancers, strokes, etc., which can all, possibly, be partially attributed to poor diet and, possibly, different gestalts of small individual amounts of toxins. But I have no direct proof for you--as yet.

Fresh and as clean as possible from toxins is best IMO whenever possible.

--greg

 

[MikeD]

When I was a kid (I'm 53) the butter would be a different color (yellow) during the spring, summer, and most of the fall. During the winter it was white. My mother said it was due to the cows eating hay during the winter instead of grass. The butter is always the same color now. I think they dye it.

Mike D.

 

[twaddle]

i just want to eat some good food that won't make me or my kids sick or start their menstruation before they hit the age of 12, make them hyper or obese...is that too much to ask!

Tell them to eat their spinach, and then go outside and play.

Calcium and Milk: Nutrition Source, Harvard School of Public Health

 

[bright eyed]

You should be glad you live in modern times. We have the safest, cheapest food available to us in history. Of course you can buy cheap junk too, but it isn't too hard to figure out that sugar candy/cereal isn't the best thing to base your diet on.
-ERD50

ditto what greg said

 

[OldAgePensioner]

After speaking with my NYU professor neighbor, apt 45L, he believes the female cow's milk tastes differently depending on whether she had been recently "serviced" by the bull. It's a hormonal thing. He's friends with a biology professor.

So Al, it's probably a large dose of sperm that you drank. It may even invigorate you.

Glad to clear that up for you.

 

[samclem]

ERD50:

"the safest, cheapest food . . . in history" I just don't know if that is even close to true.

I think it is true. Folks used to regularly get tuberculosis from milk, then we started to pasteurize it (which is, of course "processing"). There's no doubt that the use of chemical fertilizers and insecticides has drastically reduced he cost of food. (In fact, if we turned to organic methods, we could only produce the needed crops by bulldozing huge tracts of present forests. All those in favor, say "Aye")"

Chemicals in milk? That's like saying "there's oxygen in air." All milk (straight from the teat or in the room-temperature little box) is just a mixture of chemicals. To a chemist, "organic" just means the chemical is based on carbon. All of the most dangerous nerve gases are organic.

Many of the most dangerous carcinogens and other hazardous chemicals in food are produced in nature, and can exist at hazardous levels in plants never exposed to man-made chemicals. Because natural milk was already in existence before modern food safety laws, the things in it have not been subjected to the same scrutiny as things later added by man.

Is there junky food in the supermarkets? Sure. If a shopper decides a diet of "Chocolate Covered Sugar Bombs" is a good one, then he/she can eat them all day. Is there anyone who hasn't heard that trans-fats are potentially bad for you? Well, they are spelled out on the label, along with the other fats and the salt. The improved labeling is another factor that makes foods better today--junk is easier to avoid.

 

[samclem]

Organic food exposed | COSMOS magazine

Link above provides an interesting view of the "big picture" costs and value of organic farming.

In part:

"Organic farmers . . . use only naturally-occurring products to control pests, such as the elements sulphur and copper; pyrethrins and rotenone (both made by plants); BT spray and Spinosad (both made by bacteria). However, these natural pesticides are not harmless. For instance, sulphur irritates the lungs, and rotenone has been shown to cause Parkinson's disease in rats."

"Even the freshest organic apples – as well as other plant foods – contain natural compounds which, when extracted and given to rats in high doses, cause tumours. Toxicologist Bruce Ames of the University of California became famous in the 1970s for sounding the alarm on the cancer-causing (or carcinogenic) potential of man-made chemicals.
But after testing 'natural' pesticides in rats, he called off the warning. A paper he published in 1990 said it all. Entitled, "Dietary Pesticides (99.99 per cent All Natural)", it reported that in a regular diet, people consume about 10,000 times more natural carcinogens than synthetic ones. According to Ames, a single cup of coffee contains more natural carcinogens than a year's worth of the pesticide residues eaten on fruit and vegetables."

"IF CHEMICAL PESTICIDES ARE hazardous to health, then farm workers should be most affected. The results of a 13-year study of nearly 90,000 farmers and their families in Iowa and North Carolina . . . suggests we really don't have much to worry about. These people were exposed to higher doses of agricultural chemicals because of their proximity to spraying, and 65 per cent of them had personally spent more than 10 years applying pesticides. If any group of people were going to show a link between pesticide use and cancer, it would be them. They didn't.
A preliminary report published in 2004 showed that, compared to the normal population, their rates of cancer were actually lower. And they did not show any increased rate of brain-damaging diseases like Parkinson's. There was one exception: prostate cancer. This seemed to be linked to farmers using a particular fungicide called methyl bromide, which is now in the process of being phased out. "

Chemicals are either good or bad based on what they do to us, not where they come from.

By Greg:
"There are millions of deaths each year from degenerative diseases, heart disease, cancers, strokes, etc., which can all, possibly, be partially attributed to poor diet and, possibly, different gestalts of small individual amounts of toxins. But I have no direct proof for you--as yet."

No, we know exactly what causes all of these things: Living a long time. Before pasteurization (and indoor plumbing, chlorination of water, inclusion of preservatives and proper packaging of food, and other modern marvels) people didn't live long enough to have these problems. So, in effect, modern food production and processing did help "cause" these degenerative diseases. Thank goodness!