Who woulda thunk a thread on milk could go political?
So, as momma bear might say, we don't want to run this thread too hot nor let this little node just shrivel up.
samclem:
I have trouble with a bit of your logic. You said "No, we know
exactly what causes all of these things [degenerative diseases]: Living a long time." To me this is like saying life causes death and even more and longer life life may cause more death. So, if this is what you mean then the best way to avoid death is to never become alive. Am I seeing the logic in your statement wrong? To my mind, long life does not cause the degeneration of the body. What causes the degeneration of the body in may instances is the weakening of the various organs and systems. For example, excessive use of the toxin liquor oftentimes causes the degeneration of the liver. When the liver starts to fail, degenerate, then other systems also start to fail
due to that initial degeneration
. Docters, scientists, know the real causes and effects of liver disease. It is rarely old age.
Now it may be true that an old fart of ninty or one hundred has systemic weaknesses due to a wild and woolly younger life. This could consist of heart problems, circulation problems, a whole host of issues that may have related causes in past behaviors or even partially in genetic factors. Each of these separate issues could probably be traced back to a particular lifestyle or set of lifestyle related issues (e.g. Doctor to patient: You're a hundred pounds over weight and now everything is failing because you ate the wrong foods, were too sedentary and drank to much beer.) When this sort of system failure occurs the doctor may say it is just due to old age. He may be saying this to be polite though because I'm pretty sure that all doctors are well aware of some folks of very old age that have few, if any, serious degenerative problems. This stuff is not endemic to old age. What is endemic is that lots of folks lead hard lives, don't get enough sleep, don't take care of their bodies correctly, and look for excuses. When the doctor says the old person's problems are caused by old age, he may know (the doctor) it is time to quit fighting a losing battle: it is just time for the old and sick fart to just enjoy the last quality of life because the quantity of life is/may be rapidly deteriorating.
So, I see a flaw in your perceptions and subsequent conclusions.
Also, I should have done a better job of explanation too. What we do in this country is provide massive amounts of non or slowly perishing foods to folks. Pasturization, as you mentioned, is a good example. We can kill a lot of microbes and germs and stuff just by raising the temperature near boiling. This is wonderful, because if we didn't do that many, many children and others wouldn't have the nutrition they need to have healthy bodies and clear minds. This is good. And there are lots of examples of good stuff that gets foods to folks cheaply and quickly. My issue is confined to a subset of all those foods: Those foods, often but not always, in the center of the grocery store--all the canned, packaged, and altered with (toxic
) chemicals. You about-faced my argument into one that said I was against all chemical--perhaps even H2O--a valuable ingredient used in making beer. You shouldn't twist things into what they are not--it's so [-]Republican[/-]Bush-like.
If you'd like to rework your arguments a tad, I'd be happy to continue down this milky way. I think my perceptions are valid and sound. And I'm willing to take you toward my conclusions. I can also address a few of your more legitimate concerns as best I can. Live long and [-]prosper[/-] don't degenerate.