Who should pay for one family member to act as caregiver to parents?

[Mulligan]

Good luck with the future planning, Midpack. I hope there is a back up plan following sister if she becomes caregiver. My Grandmother agreed to take care of an elder relative (though didn't live with her). It got kind of bad after 10 years at the end when an 85 year old lady was trying to take care of a 105 year old lady. It is too bad things don't all go the way that has transpired with my elderly neighbors. In their late 80s they have just left their house and moved into an independent apartment connected to nursing care. They said it's better to leave a bit early on your own terms than have someone later force you to do it.


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[gauss]

What about getting parents to move near you in an independent living arrangement for now? Might make it more manageable if things deteriorate later. They probably won't like that proposal, but I bet it would be preferable to assisted living now.

Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Hermit]

We had a terrible time getting my dad to even visit an assisted living center. When we finally got him to visit, his eyes lit up because he could see happy people doing things he liked to do and he would have his own small apartment. He signed up for their waiting list that day. Just a thought. Have your parents visited a modern, well run assisted living center?

 

[Moemg]

Sorry you are going through this . Frankly it is probably time your parents look into an independent living facility that is attached to an assisted living community . My Mom fought this tooth & nail but now that she is in one she loves it . Your Sister means well but this scenario usually ends up badly .

 

[rodi]

No advice, just empathy. We've been dealing with similar situations with my MIL. SIL is doing the day to day help, locally. DH is dealing with all things financial (pays her bills, does the taxes, etc). The other 4 siblings are offering "advice" but no assistance. MIL is frail, but still living on her own.... but we know the days are numbered. Some of the other sibs are more concerned about what they say as their entitled inheritance rather than their mothers needs. MIL throws up roadblocks to any solutions we try to implement to support her wishes... then gets angry when her wishes aren't met. It's a frustrating situation.

I agree with the suggestion of you and your sister discussing things and making sure you're on the same page - then presenting any solutions/ideas to the parents in a united front. If they insist on "solutions" that aren't productive... you'll need to figure out, with your sister, how to gain control of the situation. At this point it sounds like your father is bordering on unrealistic solutions.

 

[Walt34]

It is the experiences that we have had with my mother and FIL that has persuaded us to plan on moving to a CCRC in ~5-8 years. My mother moved to one at 72 and it worked great for her, and she was only in assisted living for the last six months of her life.

FIL didn't want to face the reality of moving, fought it as long as he could and his last year of life was miserable. The irony is that everyone in the family believes that if he had made the move a few years earlier he would have loved it and would probably still be with us.

 

[imoldernu]

Sorry I can't give advice, but I'm afraid I may be like your dad. Should I live another 10 years, I'll likely be him... fiercely independent and determined.

The survival instinct is still there. "I can handle the situation." I might listen to my kids, but I'll be the one to decide. When mistakes are made, I'll pay for them.

So, here's the thinking. When problems come up, like inability to maintain my home the way others think it should be kept... if it gets cluttered and messy, I'll decide if and when to hire someone to help. If DW breaks a hip, and must go to assisted living... I'll make the decision to join her. If we have trouble with meals, will have them delivered or get home health aides. If it's a matter of money decisions, I'll make them, or if I'm unable... have already given power of attorney.

(above and below... read "I" and "my" as DW and me together. We are of one mind.)

Yes... but there are so many decisions!... so much to handle! Well, here's how my mind works: Compartmentalize... health, physical injury, money, home, legal papers/obligations, even a disaster, like fire or incurable illness....
When stuff happens... already mentally prepared to deal with problems, including death.

Along the way... I love my kids and their families, but don't and won't visit distress in my life on them. It would not be good for them or me to be in the middle of each other's lives.

It's a mental comfort level, but not something I keep to myself. We... the family, together and individually have opened access to our thoughts, financial condition, plans for the immediate future, our will, and what 'they' can expect in the event of our sudden departure. They know about my electronics "hoarding" and have the info for cleanup and disposal.
They have learned to graciously accept the oddball behavior.

Being open with all of this has relieved my mind to allow for concentration on our personal future.... and at the same time has lifted the weight of responsibility from my family. The last thing I want is to shift decisions and resultant worry to others. DW and I will make mistakes... we'll lose some money along the way, and one or the other... (if the odds hold up) will eventually become dementia patients. The onset is already under way, to be handled as it happens.
....................................................................................................

Some time ago, I wrote that we don't daily share our life's problems with our kids. We don't live in their lives, nor they in ours. We don't exchange presents, Christmas cards, or subsidize their needs and wants... except in serious situations. Those comments received some understandable criticism...none the less, it worked out, and there is no loss of love because of this. We remain very close and caring.
.......................................................................................................

And so, no advice. Every family is different. Just adding a personal outlook... maybe to help understand that an 'this' old curmudgeon is not necessarily devoid of sensitivity, and there is room for others to be different from normal expectations.

Wish you the best in a challenging situation.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

They might be happier in assisted living with more activities and social connections, especially the parent that lives the longest. I don't have any advice on how to get there from the current situation, but I wish you luck.

I don't see why you should have to pay for your sister if they have the money. As long as they can well afford it, they should fund their own care whether it is paying your sister, a third party or an assisted living center if they have the funds. Why should you pay for your sister any more than you'd pay for a new TV for couch for them if they have plenty of money of their own and you have many more years of your own retirement you need to fund?

My sister worked for years as a paid caregiver to one of our elderly relatives. It worked out for awhile., but as the years wore on it became more and more demanding work and the time and lack of days off (none until they eventually found a relief caregiver) caused tension in her own family.

 

[Texas Proud]

I just do not see why you should be paying for DS expenses....

Parents have the money to spend and they should spend it... we have hired someone to take care of our mom for three days a week... we do spread around some of the other jobs such as bills and investments (me) and making sure her pills are correct (two of my sisters)... three kids do not do much since they do not live here, but if it required more time and effort where it was a 'job', then we would be asking them for help...

 

[pb4uski]

+1 Sorry, late to the party because our internet has been out. The oddest thing about this situation is your Dad's insistence that you pay. I don't get that. If your folks didn't have money that would be understandable, but that's not the case. I'd be tempted to respond that I'm retired and my planning didn't include paying for your expenses in addition to ours, especially since I know you can afford to but that would obviously cause more problems than it would solve.

I wonder if relocating to an assisted living facility would be a good thing for them to look into. My elderly uncle and aunt moved into such a place and loved it... they had a nice, albeit small apartment, plenty of people their age to talk and play cards with, and 3 meals a day in the dining room (nice meals too). Plus, when they needed higher levels of care they just moved to a different wing of the same facility. It is important to do that sooner rather than later - in my grandmother's case she waited too late and didn't qualify and ended up in a nursing home.

Unless DS is a nurse or experienced health care provider, it will be better all around. DS will be able to finish her career and I think your parents will be better off. The problem, change is hard and I suspect that your Dad will be resistance to change.

You may need to sic your Mom on him at some point if he continues to be unreasonable.

 

[Silver]

I resigned a hospital VP position to move to Florida to care for my father after my mother died. I can tell you from experience.....the plans needed to do this well are a process over time, not an event. And since your sister appears to be the only one willing to dive into the barrel, I believe she needs to be the point person in the process.

My bias is doing whatever your parents want in coordination with their primary care taker.....which sounds like your sister at this point. And adjust all expectations accordingly. Everything will change once the situation changes, and it will many times.

Dementia plays a huge role in older adult decision-making, even when it has not been diagnosed because they are able to function well. From what you have said about both your parents wishes (father asking you to pay, mother not wanting daughter to live in their house), I'll bet they both have some level of dementia leading to unrealistic expectations which is normal at that age.

I would support your parents and sister's wishes, be available to provide assistance as requested, and allow the inevitable to unfold.

 

[FIREd]

It sounds like your parents have enough money to pay for an unrelated caretaker. So I see no reason for you to have to chip in just because they select your sister as their caretaker. They should pay her, which will reduce their estate and the amount you inherit. It seems to be an acceptable outcome for you.

 

[Lucantes]

It sounds like your parents have enough money to pay for an unrelated caretaker. So I see no reason for you to have to chip in just because they select your sister as their caretaker. They should pay her, which will reduce their estate and the amount you inherit. It seems to be an acceptable outcome for you.

+1

 

[Bestwifeever]

Maybe the parents feel like they are helping the sister out financially if she moves to take care of them, like it's a job transfer almost for her, but although they have plenty of $ for their own support, they don't think they have enough to compensate her fully too, so the dad thinks the OP should do that in lieu of the OP being there himself to assume some of the duties.

If the sister is the oldest child, that may be why the parents think she should take care of them, not because she's the female.

Good luck with it.

 

[FUEGO]

It sounds like your parents have enough money to pay for an unrelated caretaker. So I see no reason for you to have to chip in just because they select your sister as their caretaker. They should pay her, which will reduce their estate and the amount you inherit. It seems to be an acceptable outcome for you.

Another +1

Just in general, I would think the only time kids would have to step in to pay for care for parents would be if the parents are destitute and the kids feel like helping out. In this case, the parents can pay for assisted living or an in home nurse/nurse's aide/helper. It could be a total stranger, and that person would have to be paid. The daughter could be paid and that would be a clean and efficient way to "equalize" the estate.

 

[rodi]

Dementia plays a huge role in older adult decision-making, even when it has not been diagnosed because they are able to function well. From what you have said about both your parents wishes (father asking you to pay, mother not wanting daughter to live in their house), I'll bet they both have some level of dementia leading to unrealistic expectations which is normal at that age.

I agree with this. Little stuff started to slip - but my MIL was very good at covering it up... Partially by making sure that no one looked at things too close. That may be the issue why your mom doesn't want your sister in the house... Harder to fake the little memory slips that are early signs of dementia if someone is close enough to observe.

Nords has written about how well his dad was at covering up the early signs of dementia, as well. I think it's basic human instinct to deny and cover up when our mind starts to go.

 

[urn2bfree]

I agree with this. Little stuff started to slip - but my MIL was very good at covering it up... Partially by making sure that no one looked at things too close. That may be the issue why your mom doesn't want your sister in the house... Harder to fake the little memory slips that are early signs of dementia if someone is close enough to observe.

Nords has written about how well his dad was at covering up the early signs of dementia, as well. I think it's basic human instinct to deny and cover up when our mind starts to go.

+1


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[Texas Proud]

I will add another thing that could be in the parents thinking....

They lived through the depression... so did my mom (who is older than OPs parents).... this changed the thinking of a lot of people on money...

Mom still is very cheap and even though she has plenty of money to pay for things just will not do it at times... she will nickel and dime things that are really important, even food...

So, if your parents are this way, then I can see where not spending money and wanting you to do so comes from....

 

[robnplunder]

This is what I would do if I am in your shoes. I'd do what DD wishes. This could be his last wish anyway. If that makes him feel better, so be it. It's not about money but what dad thinks is right thing to do. Even if I don't believe it is the right thing, I will do it with smile on my face. After all, I've got money to spare and my sister may not. What I gain by doing this is priceless.

 

[2B]

I agree with this. Little stuff started to slip - but my MIL was very good at covering it up... Partially by making sure that no one looked at things too close. That may be the issue why your mom doesn't want your sister in the house... Harder to fake the little memory slips that are early signs of dementia if someone is close enough to observe.

Nords has written about how well his dad was at covering up the early signs of dementia, as well. I think it's basic human instinct to deny and cover up when our mind starts to go.

+1

When my MIL fell and broke her hip, we thought FIL was in good shape. Within a few months it became obvious he wasn't. His electricity was almost cut off after he wasn't paying any bills for several month. He couldn't operate his microwave or pay for gas at the pump with his credit card. It was obvious that MIL had been covering for him for probably a couple of years. When DW asked her, she quickly said he wasn't able to function yet she didn't say anything to us before DW anguished about it.

Even after we had a neurologist diagnose Alzheimers', we had trouble with other people because FIL was so good at hiding it. We had some of his old friends get angry at DW for moving him out of his home. For ~5 minutes he could schmooze anyone. However, after the first 5 minutes he'd reintroduce himself like the person had just showed up and restart the schmooze tape.

 

[Hermit]

This is what I would do if I am in your shoes. I'd do what DD wishes. This could be his last wish anyway. If that makes him feel better, so be it. It's not about money but what dad thinks is right thing to do. Even if I don't believe it is the right thing, I will do it with smile on my face. After all, I've got money to spare and my sister may not. What I gain by doing this is priceless.

+1

When my MIL fell and broke her hip, we thought FIL was in good shape. Within a few months it became obvious he wasn't. His electricity was almost cut off after he wasn't paying any bills for several month. He couldn't operate his microwave or pay for gas at the pump with his credit card. It was obvious that MIL had been covering for him for probably a couple of years. When DW asked her, she quickly said he wasn't able to function yet she didn't say anything to us before DW anguished about it.

Even after we had a neurologist diagnose Alzheimers', we had trouble with other people because FIL was so good at hiding it. We had some of his old friends get angry at DW for moving him out of his home. For ~5 minutes he could schmooze anyone. However, after the first 5 minutes he'd reintroduce himself like the person had just showed up and restart the schmooze tape.

Unfortunately, I think robnplunde's approach can easily hide those deeper issues described by 2B. There is medicine that can help with dementia, but if you allow it to be covered up, there will be no help. An evaluation of both parents seems to be in order as suggested by many above. A good friend has dementia at 66. He is lucky that his DW got him to discuss it with his doctor and is now on medicine which seems to help. Good luck.

 

[Mulligan]

I will add another thing that could be in the parents thinking....

They lived through the depression... so did my mom (who is older than OPs parents).... this changed the thinking of a lot of people on money...

Mom still is very cheap and even though she has plenty of money to pay for things just will not do it at times... she will nickel and dime things that are really important, even food...

So, if your parents are this way, then I can see where not spending money and wanting you to do so comes from....

That was my only way to reconcile the situation. When one is older and vulnerable money is the last line of defense for protection. Instead of drawing down their resources have children do so then get reimbursed with inheritance. While I hope I wouldn't come to that conclusion when I am that age, it may be hard to let go of that security.


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[daylatedollarshort]

That was my only way to reconcile the situation. When one is older and vulnerable money is the last line of defense for protection. Instead of drawing down their resources have children do so then get reimbursed with inheritance. While I hope I wouldn't come to that conclusion when I am that age, it may be hard to let go of that security.

If the parents do end up living a long time with LTC needs and end up on Medicaid, it is probably better to spend down the parents assets, and not the adult kids, to Medicaid qualification levels. Otherwise, there may not be an inheritance passed on to the kids. The state could try to claim it for recovery of costs.

It might be a good time to have a chat with an elder law attorney.

 

[Meadbh]

This is what I would do if I am in your shoes. I'd do what DD wishes. This could be his last wish anyway. If that makes him feel better, so be it. It's not about money but what dad thinks is right thing to do. Even if I don't believe it is the right thing, I will do it with smile on my face. After all, I've got money to spare and my sister may not. What I gain by doing this is priceless.

I disagree. Very old people, even without dementia, frequently regress and become like children (toddlers) again: demanding, self centred and irrational. Just as a parent should not give in to a child's temper tantrums, an adult child should not enable the same behaviour in an elderly parent. The difficulty for the adult child lies in acknowledging the pattern of behaviour, setting fair boundaries, and not feeling guilty about it.

 

[Midpack]

Sorry you are going through this . Frankly it is probably time your parents look into an independent living facility that is attached to an assisted living community . My Mom fought this tooth & nail but now that she is in one she loves it . Your Sister means well but this scenario usually ends up badly .

I am not sure how I'd get our parents on this path, especially since sister has volunteered to move and care for them. However I agree, neither parents nor sister has thought thru all the possible outcomes. All three of them are assuming parents will pass suddenly without hospitalization, assisted living, nursing home care. Might be, but there could just as easily be things sister can't handle, and sooner rather than later. And no way to know how much longer they will live, if sister uproots herself and both parents pass away within a year or sooner, now sister has given up her career and moved to a city she does not want to live/retire to.

Parents never were very social. Dad's social life revolved around his golf buddies, but they've all passed away, and he can't/doesn't play anymore. Mom goes to church every Sunday, very important to her, but she's happy to confine her social life to church once a week. IOW, not sure how I'd even get them to try communal setting, they're determined to stay at home until they pass no matter what it takes.