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Old 10-31-2007, 10:46 AM   #81
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As a former automotive employee for a big 3 company and supplier, I can say the automotive industry is ripe with inefficiencies and corruption. I could see it when I worked there 10+ years ago, and it shows in the quality of the cars they make. Millions of americans switching to honda and toyota cannot be wrong. Consumer driven economy... make a better product, a more reliable product, and this problem would not exist.

GM, Ford and Chrysler made most of their sales, IMO, out of loyalty to "buy american", than they did because they built a better product. This short sightedness, IMO, will take around 20 years to correct.

Drove a Saturn, OK until about 150,000 miles. Good car, I would buy it again, but car is way to small for me (I drove an SC2 when I was single).
Drove a Ford Focus- started giving us problems before it was paid off. Good riddance on that one.

Drive an Civic and Ridgeline now and could not be happier.
My wife's uncle has a camry with 300k miles on it and still going strong. Many others I know have civics, accords and camry's with 200k miles on them. The equivalent ford car (focus) was dead after 80k miles.

Not even close.
My objection was the statement that American cars are made out of a random pile of parts. I'm for anyone buying any car they want.

But making insulting, broad statements about any group of people, whether it is military, government employees, doctors, lawyers, etc, is just lowering the conversation to name calling.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:51 AM   #82
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My objection was the statement that American cars are made out of a random pile of parts. I'm for anyone buying any car they want.

But making insulting, broad statements about any group of people, whether it is military, government employees, doctors, lawyers, etc, is just lowering the conversation to name calling.
fair... my experience with a supplier suggests that "pile of parts" might be similar to what happens, though.

I worked for a company outside the automotive industry at one point, and a supplier we shared with a tier 1 supplier for GM showed some of the quality checks used.

The quality process we used rejected X% parts because of material and similar defects. Those same parts GM considered acceptable and put in cars on the road 15 years ago... the commitment to top quality is not there.

I have many similar stories of my dealings with other automotive suppliers as well.
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:26 AM   #83
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f........... Those same parts GM considered acceptable and put in cars on the road 15 years ago... the commitment to top quality is not there.........
Bolding mine. I'm sure that what you are saying is true, but what is the good of running down US companies and rooting for their Asian competition? The US auto companies have taken their punishment, are on the ropes and many innocents have suffered or will suffer. The arrogant former executives have fled with their golden parachutes.

The point of my link is that progress is being made with domestic quality and it should be recognized. Then go buy any car you want.
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Old 10-31-2007, 09:41 PM   #84
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having learned the arcane system we currently have (chains, rods, fathoms, cubits, furlongs, pints, pounds, pecks, etc) i can hardly afford the grey matter which would be required to internalize another system, no matter how "scientific" it might be ... esp one which originated in France.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:12 PM   #85
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My objection was the statement that American cars are made out of a random pile of parts. I'm for anyone buying any car they want.

But making insulting, broad statements about any group of people, whether it is military, government employees, doctors, lawyers, etc, is just lowering the conversation to name calling.
I agree!
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Old 11-01-2007, 07:47 PM   #86
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I know it is fun to kick a guy when he is down, but what you are saying isn't true or respectful to many of us who either worked in the US auto industry or whose families got a leg up into the middle class through US auto jobs.

Consumer Reports: Ford makes strides, Toyota dips
Apologies for any slight, real or imagined. FWIW, I'm from the midwest, and entered the workforce and adulthood during the height of the "Rust Belt"...

In my day, I made car parts, including doors, catalytic convertors, and insulation mats, as well as steel cans, plastic bottles, cardboard boxes, foam packaging materials, tomato juice, creamed corn, and semiconductors. After participating in these endeavors, I can most definitively state that I'm surprised ANY of it works...
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