Wills, planning, etc

[cute fuzzy bunny]

So its about time for us to move beyond the basic simple will I filled out a few years ago from a template.

I'd like to do a set of wills, medical directive, power of attorney, basic estate planning etc.

Before consulting a lawyer, I'd like to get my own ducks in a row. Anyone use any of the willmaking/estate planning software and have any comments about it?

I was looking at "willmaker plus" from nolo. It sounds good...

 

[KB]

I just bought the Suze Orman's Will and Trust kit for 14.00 including shipping. I'm going through the process of writing up a will, revocable trust, durable power of attorney for health care and financial power of attorney. When I'm done, I'll take them to my attorney and go from there. It's an easy way to get started...

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Hi th. I have found NOLO generally excellent. I have an appointment next week with an attorney to update my will.
If I actually show up, it will be the first time since about 1975
that I have let someone else do my will. Still queasy about
paying someone to do it. I am trying to make DW feel more
secure if I check out. Otherwise I would not bother.

JG

 

[GTM]

There's a wesite NHPCrg that has free forms in all states for Medical Advance Directive and Health Care Rep.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ok, come on...where are the suze orman jokes?

I got a sweet deal on the willmaker plus s/w after reading a bunch of scintillating reviews. I'll let y'all know how it works out.

I saw where I could get some of the forms for free...I'm looking for an overall estate planning review sort of thing rather than just a few piecemeal parts.

 

[REWahoo]

Ok, come on...where are the suze orman jokes?

The question is "Where's Martha?" (Our Martha, not the Stewart variety). Surely she has an opinion on DIY lawyering.

REW

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

The best part of DIY lawyering is that if you persistently practice it you eventually end up in a place where you have lots and lots of time for formal education on the subject.

 

[JB]

I used NOLO for my Will, Durable Power of Attorney for FInances, and Healthcare Directive. I am satisfied with the resulting documents. I haven't paid for or met with a lawyer since I was 16, and that was a long time ago. I did pay an accountant once, it was a waste of $500 and I had to redo his work.

 

[MJ]

I got a sweet deal on the willmaker plus s/w after reading a bunch of scintillating reviews. I'll let y'all know how it works out.
I saw where I could get some of the forms for free...I'm looking for an overall estate planning review sort of thing rather than just a few piecemeal parts.

th,
Did you get 2004 or 2005? where did you get it from.
I found a legal form website that charges $24.95 to join and let's you download 2005 for free.

MJ

 

[MJ]

My Qickens 2000 came with Family Lawyer 2000.
Is anyone familiar with it? It has all the various documents I am looking for.
Is it too dated to trust for today's legal documents

Am I being penny wise and pound foolish?

MJ

 

[unclemick]

I have a very short olographic will. My stash is 85% trad IRA so the beneficiary is already designated.

My heath directive states that I have no health insurance and very little money in the U.S. So if they can't revive me to pay - use their own judgement. Everybody else in the household is setup financially independant now - so they 'could' do without me living or dead.

Hmmm??

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I have done a great deal of "DIY lawyering", plus also way more than my share of traditional lawyering. So far my DIY efforts worked out just fine and of course, I saved a fortune in fees.
Paying an attorney for will prep. seems kind of like a waste
(in my case). I have an appointment next Friday (the 13th)
with a local guy. I may not go. Anyway, will report back on how this
is resolved. I have a simple will, but it has a lot of "chewy" issues.

JG

 

[Martha]

I just walked over to ask our estate planners what they thought of NOLO and "will kits". Every one of those guys is out today. Golf? Who knows, but couldn't ask.

My thought is that if you have a lot of money or any complications in your situation, it is good to talk it over with a lawyer who might have some ideas a kit wouldn't have. For example, there are many ways beyond wills to pass assets to the next generation. But TH is doing that anyway. I also think that if you are considering a trust, I would have a lawyer do it because individual cirumstances and goals substantially effect how to design the trust or even if a trust is the right thing to do.

Now John, my dear, you keep talking about going to a lawyer and working on your will. Now you are talking about cancelling the appointment. Don't. Time to go and get it done given your situation with the C corp. There, that is as close to legal advice I am ever going to give here.

 

[Martha]

Hey, our most senior estate planner just walked into my office! I am honored. He told me to get to work and quit screwing around on the internet. But he's not the boss of me.

He said forms like NOLO forms are just fine. The form part is nothing. His secretary can prepare the will form. The lawyer's job and what he charges for is to make sure you think of all the variables and all the options. So you wouldn't save any money here by bringing in a NOLO will. He says people make mistakes all the time using the forms. They forget people don't die in the right order. Etc.

Now I'll go back to work.

 

[Eagle43]

Now John, my dear, you keep talking about going to a lawyer and working on your will. Now you are talking about cancelling the appointment. Don't. Time to go and get it done given your situation with the C corp. There, that is as close to legal advice I am ever going to give here.

Send him a bill, Martha. As a disciple of Ayn Rand, and a devout conservative, JG knows there is no free lunch. Of Course, he probably won't take your advice anyway.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Send him a bill, Martha.  As a disciple of Ayn Rand, and a devout conservative, JG knows there is no free lunch. Of Course, he probably won't take your advice anyway.

Martha is a smart lady. I may take her advice. We'll know in about a week.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I got the 2005 and it'll cost me $28 after rebate from buy.com

Martha - my understanding of this s/w is that its not just forms, but gives you all the info, asks a bunch of questions and then fills the forms in for you based on your answers. Besides the s/w is a book with more detail in it.

I'm not setting up any trusts or anything at this time. I just wanted to placeholder a will, medical directives, power of attorneys and the basic stuff like that. Been pondering it since we knew Gabe was coming along.

Once thats in place I can move to do the heavier lifting later.

 

[charlie]

My brother and I are each 50% beneficiaries of our mom's
account at Vanguard.  I have power of attorney for her
account and the other day she asked me who would manage
her account if I passed first.  That got me thinking more deeply
about Vanguard's beneficiary plan and what happens if my
brother or I passed before her.  It dawned on me that the
surviving brother would inherit 100% and the wife of the
deceased would get nothing from Vanguard.  I checked with
Mom and this was definitely NOT what she wanted to happen.
She wanted each "family" to have 50% ..... with which my
brother and I totally agree.  The problem is, I think, that to
give 50% to the surviving widow would incur a GIFT TAX.

I have a revocable living trust and could assign the trust as
a 50% beneficiary to solve the problem for myself.  Unfortunately,
my brother does not have a trust and can't afford to set one up.

As it stands now, I could change the beneficiary plan to name
my brother as 50% beneficiary and my trust as the other 50%
beneficiary.  

Another option would be to just let it go as is for now (she is 89)
and just let the surviving brother change the plan to name the
widow as a 50% beneficiary if either of us passes first.  

Although I have kidded about my brother (UP-Chuck) in the past
we totally trust each other.

Any suggestions?

Charlie    

 

[JB]

I cancelled my Vanguard Directed Beneficiary plan. It doesn't offer the flexibility I need (which isn't much).

 

[Martha]

I don't know how Vanguard works and maybe it doesn't allow this, but one option, Charlie, is to have the two of you named beneficiaries as "tenants in common" or provide for contingent beneficiaries if one of you dies. Some brokerages allow this but plenty are pretty rigid about what they allow. Or you could skip having beneficiaries and probate the asset. Or your mom could set up a trust to hold the account, with you and your brother and each of your heirs as beneficiaries of the trust.

Some problems with relying on trusting family members in this case is that your mother could end up incompetent, you or your brother dies, and your mother can't change the beneficiary to add someone new. Happens.

Just thoughts, not advice.

 

[Martha]

Martha - my understanding of this s/w is that its not just forms, but gives you all the info, asks a bunch of questions and then fills the forms in for you based on your answers. Besides the s/w is a book with more detail in it.

Because I haven't read the book or reviewed the software, I can't speak much more to this. The issues probably are that a question/answer system cannot account for all variables and can't predict what you might need outside of a will. But heck, it might be just fine for your situation.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I just wanna say where the money and property goes, who takes care of him if we're gone, that neither of us wants to be kept alive by a machine if the prognosis isnt good, and who has our power of attorney if we're disabled or gone. Pretty basic stuff. No ex-wives, no huge extended family who will contest anything, no bad people or weirdos we want to "cut out" of anything.

 

[Martha]

I just wanna say where the money and property goes, who takes care of him if we're gone, that neither of us wants to be kept alive by a machine if the prognosis isnt good, and who has our power of attorney if we're disabled or gone. Pretty basic stuff. No ex-wives, no huge extended family who will contest anything, no bad people or weirdos we want to "cut out" of anything.

Well then, just a couple more thoughts. First is, in the unlikely event you and your DW both die, you mentioned appointing a guardian for Gabe. The guardian will care for Gabe, but at 18 he would get all the money/assets. You might think about having the assets go into a trust for him if you both die, to pay out at whatever age you think is appropriate. I know if I had your bucks at 18, I would have had a fine party. Often it is better to have a bank than a person be the trustee because oddly enough it is often cheaper. The bank won't have to hire accountants, lawyers, etc. And no ackward family situations either--"but aunty, I neeeeeeed that Suzuki Hayabusa!"

Another point is that a power of attorney is only good so long as you are alive. After you a dead, it is a worthless piece of paper.

I am sure there are more thoughts that I haven't had! Good luck.

 

[charlie]

Thanks Martha, you rock! I had not thought of the incompetent
problem. We are modifying the plan to show my trust as 50%
beneficiary and my brother as the other 50%. That solves the
problem for me ..... I will work with my bro to get him to set up
a trust as well.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

A word of warning.

I used this willmaker software to successfully put together a will for my dad. That went well, he took the output to a retired lawyer he golfs with and he said there was nothing more he could add, go get it signed.

However, we did ours and then shelved it pending the resolution of some key issues, like who was going to be gabes guardian and who was going to take care of the money...the ideal people to do that were two different people, and they just fell into a family squabble around the time we were doing the will. Thought it'd work itself out, but it got worse so we decided to pick different people.

In the meanwhile, I scuttled our old computer and bought a new one.

Heres the fun part...you can install this 2005 software but after the end of the calendar year for this product it no longer applies any updates from the makers web site. Without the updates, the basic un-updated software will not open a file created by the updated s/w.

No amount of prying would get the maker to either fix the file so I can read it, or give me the updates. "The newest legal stuff is in the 2006 version and you have to buy that one". Wow, they're part of Quicken...what a surprise!

Basically I understand their argument, but the difference in the document between what I would have printed and executed six months ago and what I wanted to print and execute today is the same. I doubt enough legal changes have taken place that would render the output no longer useful or even mildly impaired. I could see cutting off 2-3 year old product or one that the maker knows has significant legitimate legal deficiencies. Not a 2005 product cut off in february of 2006. I guess you're screwed if you got this as a christmas present and didnt get around to installing it for a month...

Just a scheme to keep scrounging more money out of you every time you want to print out a document or make a small change.



Thanks, but I'll dredge up the old hard drive from the old PC, scrape the updated s/w off of it and do my own 'update'.

Another decent product screwed up by a bad decision and bad customer service.