Worried sick over UPENN student

[Senator]

I am sure she has been in statistically worse places. Even going on a date, with an unknown person, probably carries more risk.

Do you ask if she at least Googles all her acquaintances names before she is alone with them?

 

[target2019]

OP must be referring to Cooper Hospital. If she lives near UPENN, then it is a train ride to the transportation center, and a nice ride on the speed line. Nothing unsafe about that. Lots of security, city police, and state police I believe.

We go to the area several times a year.

People are murdered at shopping malls, concerts, and in small town churches. Use perspective.

 

[target2019]

How does she get to Cooper from Philly? The high speed line is usually the easiest and safest, the issue she will have is the last stop on the High speed line is I think 16th and Walnut and she'll have to hike to Penn.

Fom UPENN she will take a bus or Mkt St. Subway to 8th & Mkt, and transfer to the speed line.
There is always help available to escort young women around campus in the Phila. and Camden area. Just need to know the number to call.

 

[Senator]

People are murdered at shopping malls, concerts, and in small town churches. Use perspective.

And for the most part, the violence is committed by people that they know.

Stay away from drugs, do not deal drugs, and you will likely eliminate 90% of the violent crime. Do not go out at 2 AM and wander around unless you have to.

And if you are going to buy drugs, pay full price and move on. And expect to get robbed once in a while if you do buy drugs.

 

[Senator]

Fom UPENN she will take a bus or Mkt St. Subway to 8th & Mkt, and transfer to the speed line.
There is always help available to escort young women around campus in the Phila. and Camden area. Just need to know the number to call.

There is probably even help available to escort old women, or even men...

 

[Meadbh]

And then there’s the workplace itself. Hospitals are among the most dangerous places to work.

MMS: Error

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3826.pdf

Nobody is suggesting that you insist she drop medical school. But I do strongly recommend that you insist on the safety course.

 

[Luck_Club]

Thanks for all the suggestions please keep them coming.

After sleeping on it, I'm sure that UPENN has some safe way for the kids to transport between the hosipital and school. DD is tasked with finding the specific details on how that works logistically. We are going to insist on the self defense awareness class, as a condition of staying in the school. Good tip on the ear buds.

Someone mentioned Walnut & 16th. I think this is what originally brought the carelessness of our daughter with regard to her surroundings and personal safety. When my wife visited, and they got off 1 stop later that was a shorter walk to the campus, they had to walk past several groups of people hanging out on the street. It wasn't well lit, and my wife asked DD do you have the pepper spray? No was the reply.

I understand the common sense piece of safety.

 

[ivinsfan]

Those that pay make the rules..

Though I would pay dearly for it.

Wow....controlling much?

 

[ponyboy]

upenn is in a rough neighborhood...although pretty much all of philly is a dump. I always hated going there. My wife went to school outside of philly (collegeville)...KOP was the closest I ever wanted to get to that crime zone.

 

[bclover]

Someone mentioned Walnut & 16th. I think this is what originally brought the carelessness of our daughter with regard to her surroundings and personal safety. When my wife visited, and they got off 1 stop later that was a shorter walk to the campus, they had to walk past several groups of people hanging out on the street. It wasn't well lit, and my wife asked DD do you have the pepper spray? No was the reply.

I understand the common sense piece of safety.

So that entire area is a dichotomy in a way. I'm probably about 1.5 away in Fairmont. It's near Rittenhouse square which has whew some awesome multimillion dollar townhouses, fabulous stores and restaurants. so it's always bustling with folks. on the other hand because it's always bustling with people, it gets the knuckleheads along with folks out on the town.
It's a shopping mecca, apple store etc etc.

lately we've been having an issue on the weekends with groups of teens "hanging" out and causing issues. The police have assigned some bike and foot patrols to the area. It's more serious in the summer of course due to longer days.

Let me say, I go there ALL the time, lol I'm a shopper, one of my favorite restaurants in the summer is on 18th and walnut (Parc Bistro and cafe).

 

[bclover]

upenn is in a rough neighborhood...although pretty much all of philly is a dump. I always hated going there. My wife went to school outside of philly (collegeville)...KOP was the closest I ever wanted to get to that crime zone.

no way do you live in or have been to Philly if you think U of Penn is a rough area?
exactly what is "dumpy" about the city?? I guess NY and DC are dumps also?

but to each his own, you couldn't pay me to go to the philly suburbs with their trailer trash.
sounds just as ridiculous doesn't it.

Once again Philadelphia is a big city. It is the 5th largest city in the country. It has it's share of big city problems but it most certainly not a "dump". Considering if just had a wackadoodle walk into a small town church in Texas and murder a bunch of folks, the reality is one must be vigilant no matter where you go to school or live

 

[target2019]

Thanks for all the suggestions please keep them coming.

After sleeping on it, I'm sure that UPENN has some safe way for the kids to transport between the hosipital and school. DD is tasked with finding the specific details on how that works logistically. We are going to insist on the self defense awareness class, as a condition of staying in the school. Good tip on the ear buds.

Someone mentioned Walnut & 16th. I think this is what originally brought the carelessness of our daughter with regard to her surroundings and personal safety. When my wife visited, and they got off 1 stop later that was a shorter walk to the campus, they had to walk past several groups of people hanging out on the street. It wasn't well lit, and my wife asked DD do you have the pepper spray? No was the reply.

I understand the common sense piece of safety.

Passing along fear to DD is not a good idea. Pepper spray is a good idea, I agree.

I grew up in the city, and live near the city. Went to college in North Phila. Have worked there, too. Wife works in city for a very long time. Daughter went to school in Camden, and works near UPENN.

Yes, city crime rate is higher, but circumstances are specific. Sounds like you are helping them with advice, etc. Go with a group if possible. Don't wear necklaces or flaunt your bling.

Here is a positive story to consider.
$280,000 payback for Philadelphia homeless man who spent his last $20 helping N.J. woman

Peace.

 

[MRG]

Any big city has some unpleasant parts. When we were 21 we left home for Memphis. Oh what a time that was. We did live in a bad area and were a minority. Guess what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

Oh Camden. My birth certificate says I was born there.

 

[meierlde]

Another suggestion is to not use the cell phone while walking on the streets for better situational awareness (also do not use earbuds to listen to music). I do agree about the self defense training imho it should be given in 7th grade to all girls as part of PE. (At least equalizes the stranger on stranger issues)

 

[OldShooter]

First, I think you can accept this:

1) The school knows more about the risk situation than anyone else because they live it every day.

2) The school will not knowingly put any student into a situation with any more than minimal risk, if not because they are truly concerned about their students then because losing a big lawsuit would cost them in money and reputation.
​

So the simple fact that they are sending kids out on this program is testimony that it is very safe.

Also, when you come up with something like "the entire city has a 1 in 50 chance of becoming victim of violent crime" you really have to think it through. First, as was pointed out, most violent crime occurs between people who know each other and, sadly, among blacks. So let's make a wild guess that this turns the risk equation to something like 1 in 365. Further, assume that she is taking some of the advice here about being safe, so we'll make it 1 in 730. So during any 24 hour day her risk is around one in one thousand. Crime happens mostly at night, so her daytime rate is (guessing) maybe 1/4 of that. So one in four thousand. Bottom line: Oversimplified statistics, when examined, will almost always be far less alarming than they appear.

Boyfriend and STD risks are probably much higher for her.

 

[Bestwifeever]

A young woman from our town who had moved to Philadelphia for a job was murdered there about 20 years ago when she was out running by herself before 6:00 am. The city where it happened is a coincidence (it was a long time ago and Chicago has plenty of most dangerous city perceptions), but the police here and there all said that being out alone pre-dawn is more dangerous than late at night when more people are around. OP's daughter will learn street smarts if she hasn't already and it sounds like she will always be with other people.

 

[CoolRich59]

Even though I have no military or law enforcement background, I taught my daughter "situational awareness" and drilled it into her.

It's easy for a thug to ambush a young lady who is distracted and/or not paying attention.

It's much more difficult to do so with a young lady who is watching her surroundings, has her phone put away, and her hand on the cannister of pepper spray I insisted she always carry in her purse.

 

[CoolRich59]

Large urban areas will have companies that offer "street smart" self-defense courses, often specifically for women.

Great idea. My only caveat would be to vet them to see if they are "reality based". I've heard some of these places tell women to do ridiculous things, like "dialogue with your attacker".

In addition to my post above, I required my daughter take a self-defense course. Before signing her up, I spent some time talking to the owner until I was satisfied she knew her stuff and had some "street" experience.

 

[ERD50]

First, I think you can accept this:

1) The school knows more about the risk situation than anyone else because they live it every day.

2) The school will not knowingly put any student into a situation with any more than minimal risk, if not because they are truly concerned about their students then because losing a big lawsuit would cost them in money and reputation.
​

So the simple fact that they are sending kids out on this program is testimony that it is very safe.
...

You cannot assume this.

My own DD volunteered for a teaching program over spring break a few years back, they were going to assist "under privileged children" for a week. OK, we knew that probably meant going into Chicago. When she got more details, they were to meet in one of the worst parts of one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago.

I had DD call to ask what safety precautions were being taken for the group. NONE. They were just supposed to all drive an meet at the school! The person organizing this had no clue as to the crime rate in that area, and that sending a bunch of suburban kids there in their own cars was not a prudent thing to do.

Unfortunately, her and her friends pulled out of that program, because we just did not feel it was safe. A shame, they could have done something to provide a safe meeting space (bus the kids to a safer area maybe?)

You have to look out for your family, don't count on the school to be doing it.

-ERD50

 

[pb4uski]

Lot of good ideas here. Situational awareness is paramount. Also like the idea of pepper-spray. Also, perhaps offer to pay for car service (or taxis or Ubers) from where she lives to where she works if public transportation is dicey or she would need to walk through some dodgy areas as part of her commute.

 

[OldShooter]

You cannot assume this. ...

I think there is quite a difference between an ongoing, years-long, academic program and a one-off do-good idea. So we will disagree on this.

The OP can, of course, contact the school and talk to the person who supervises the program then form her own opinion. I'm sure the OP can also find out what the history of the program has been regarding students being crime victims. I'm still betting that the program experience is near or at zero problems.

 

[CoolRich59]

You cannot assume this.

Totally agree (sorry OldShooter).

In my experience putting four kids through two different universities over the last 10 years, I don't trust them to do anything more than provide the education.

 

[ponyboy]

tell you child...stay off their cell phone while walking around. no headphones...head up...be aware of your surroundings. so many people staring at their phones...target on backs...good luck...its a jungle out there

 

[Luck_Club]

OP Again. I'm her dad, I know many assume due to the worry I'm the mom, but I get tasked with sorting out solutions for all the family difficulties.

I tend to agree we can't count on the school to take on the safety of the kids. The first semester they sent her alone to talk with a retired nurse in a sketchy neighborhood. Wife and I almost fell over dead at learning about that little stunt. I'm 100% sure they would tell me to take a hike if I asked them to assure my daughters safety in the most polite way saying "sorry, if you feel unsafe drop the program."


DD found a senior who had done clinical at that location and the entire group rented a car to go back and forth together. It sounds like the school is not getting involved in transportation and leaves that and the safety of that up to the discretion of the student. She can't seem to get any administrator to tell her how these rotations work logistically.

Someone said Philly is a dangerous city. I would agree. I've lived in DC, and only felt unsafe on 2 occasions, when I found myself stranded in SE DC as dark fell. I also almost went to grad school at University of Chicago, which is surrounded by rough dangerous places. So I know that every city has safe places Miracle Mile vs U Of Chicago. Georgetown & the monuments area of DC vs SE section.

The issue for our concern is UPENN is more like U of Chicago and SE DC areas once you step off the campus. It isn't like walking off campus at Georgetown or North Western.

Keep up the suggestions situational awareness etc. It is time Pappa & Mamma Bear start teaching their cub what is beyond the safety of the Forrest.

So far I have:
earbuds/phone away
Self defense class
Dress and appearance muted colors and appearance (ditch the flashy bag, and skirts)
Travel companion at all times off campus

 

[kgtest]

Run, hide, fight. In that order. That is the streetsmarts you need today. If you have earbuds in, are on your phone, and not acutely aware, you become an an easier target.