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View Poll Results: What is your Net Worth
Negative 1 0.60%
0 - 25,000 1 0.60%
25,000 - 50,000 3 1.81%
50,000 - 100,000 3 1.81%
100,000 - 200,000 6 3.61%
200,000 - 500,000 27 16.27%
500,000 - 1,000,000 45 27.11%
1,000,000 - 3,000,000 64 38.55%
3,000,000 - 5,000,000 14 8.43%
5,000,000 + 2 1.20%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 12:51 PM   #41
 
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Good, Nords! For the ER folks here, it always pays to think outside the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
If they're worth $5M+, is gender & marital status relevant?
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 12:51 PM   #42
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
Don't forget that there are two kinds of net worth:

There's the classic: Total assets - Total liabilities (which is what I assume you ask in your poll)

And there's the "harvestable" net worth I use to determine how much I need to be FI.* This net worth only takes into account those assets that will generate income to me, like my mutual funds, bonds, and bank CDs.* For example, your home counts as part of your net worth, in the classic sense.* However, if your only asset is a $1mil home with no mortgage, you will not be able to be FI unless you plan on tapping the equity by selling it, getting a reverse mortgage, renting it, etc.

The harvestable net-worth is more meaningful to me since I don't plan on generating any income from my home nor some of my other assets like my wedding ring and the pencil on my desk.
If we do it this way, what value do we assign to our pensions?* I.E., if I get a $50K per year pension, what net worth does that represent, since it's already "harvesting" for me? $50K/4%=$1.25M?*
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 01:58 PM   #43
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
If we do it this way, what value do we assign to our pensions?* I.E., if I get a $50K per year pension, what net worth does that represent, since it's already "harvesting" for me? $50K/4%=$1.25M?*
That calculation will probably overestimate your net worth -- but it depends on the assumptions you want to make.* Remember the 4% rule assumes that your expenses increase with inflation each year.* Unless your pension is indexed to inflation, the $50K loses real value each year.

One way to come up with a net worth for a pension is to use an annuity calculator.* intrcst's Retire Early Home Page can direct you to some online annnuity calculators.* Of course you have to make some assumptions about rate of return, etc. and can come up with a wide range of answers.

Then there is the risk question.* Would you buy an annuity if you didn't have a pension?* Would you adjust your equity/bond ratio if you didn't have a pension.* Bogle and others have argued that people should adjust their equity/bond ratio upward if they are collecting social security or pensions.*

One of the most thorough ways to come up with a net worth equivalent for a pension is to run FIRECALC including all your investments plus the pension (using a negative number in the first withdrawal box).* Let the program compute a spending rate for a 95% success rate.* Then eliminate the pension from the calculations and increase your nest egg till you achieve a 95% success rate again.* The amount you needed to increase your nest egg is the approximate value of your pension.* I played around with this a few years ago. (I found my notes on this after my original post). The answer depends on the ratio of expenses to pension, on the length of time in retirement, on your assumed equity/bond allocation, etc. A number I came up with was $10K of pension was equivalent to about $220K of present net worth. That assumed that the ratio of pension to spending was about 0.2, 30 year retirement, 50/50 equity bond, CPI inflation, commercial paper for bonds.* *
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 03:36 PM   #44
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Do you mean pile of . . . . money?
Patrick -
I want it to mean whatever you want it to mean....

DanTien
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 03:42 PM   #45
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Patrick -
I want it to mean whatever you want it to mean....

DanTien*
OK, Krugerrands, then!*
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 03:52 PM   #46
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
OK, Krugerrands, then!
Same as cash, which is just as good as money...YB
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 04:33 PM   #47
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Something doesn't add up. We seem to have a large fraction of people in this
group with net worth in the area of $2 million and yet when discussing living expenses
in ER we see numbers quoted in the $50-100/day range. Thats a SWR<2%.

Are people really using such a low SWR - a depressing prospect for us wannabees,
or maybe RE living expenses for the millionaires is higher than $50-100/day?

Zorba

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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 04:54 PM   #48
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba
Something doesn't add up. We seem to have a large fraction of people in this
group with net worth in the area of $2 million and yet when discussing living expenses
in ER we see numbers quoted in the $50-100/day range. Thats a SWR<2%.

Are people really using such a low SWR - a depressing prospect for us wannabees,
or maybe RE living expenses for the millionaires is higher than $50-100/day?

Zorba

Zorba: The only two actual retirees that I am aware of on this board that report the middle range of 50-100 a day would be Unclemick and John Galt. There a a few others that are living in other countries that may fall into that range.

Anyway, it's really beside the point regarding what somebody else spends. We all have different obligations and lifestyles. Whatever works best for you is what's important.

Does that make sense? Hope so.

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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 05:09 PM   #49
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead
Zorba:* The only two actual retirees that I am aware of on this board that report the middle range of 50-100 a day would be Unclemick and John Galt.* There a a few others that are living in other countries that may fall into that range.

Anyway, it's really beside the point regarding what somebody else spends.* We all have different obligations and lifestyles.* Whatever works best for you is what's important.

Does that make sense?* Hope so.

Gotta weigh in.............. Jarhead is right. 25K per year is absolutely
no problem for us. We have 2 homes (both waterfront or near
waterfront) , 2 vehicles, 3 boats. DW works, and SS is one year away
for me. We eat out, travel, and NO budget at all (yet). I can't see
that we are deprived in any way. I'm pretty sure Unclemick would agree.

JG
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 05:28 PM   #50
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

It's called History - time and the market blessings of the 90's caused my net worth to out run the slow climb of my cheap a#s spending habits.

Wasn't about to change my comfort zone or spending habits just to suit the market.

Drifting up in spending - but slowly. Have no great unmet passions(like scuba dive Bora Bora) requiring me to wed SWR to a retirement calculator. Upgrading my chevy truck to a GMC - just doesn't give me the jollies like picking a used Maypop from the junkyard - makes driving fun - wondering how far you'll get on 'used tires'. Always keep a can of fix a flat handy.

Soooo - dink along like before - and if something pops up to float our boat - the margin of safety is there.

Hey! - we got Direct TV this year(not my idea).
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 05:29 PM   #51
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
It's called History - time and the market blessings of the 90's caused my net worth to out run the slow climb of my cheap a#s spending habits.

Wasn't about to change my comfort zone or spending habits just to suit the market.

Drifting up in spending - but slowly. Have no great unmet passions(like scuba dive Bora Bora) requiring me to wed SWR to a retirement calculator. Upgrading my chevy truck to a GMC - just doesn't give me the jollies like picking a used Maypop from the junkyard - makes driving fun - wondering how far you'll get on 'used tires'. Always keep a can of fix a flat handy.

Soooo - dink along like before - and if something pops up to float our boat - the margin of safety is there.

Hey! - we got Direct TV this year(not my idea).
Unclemick in 2008!

JG
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 05:30 PM   #52
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

JG and Jarhead are correct. 25K is no problem. Salmon Béarnaise for lunch after playing tennis this morning. Leaving for Asia in a couple of weeks for months...or more? Who knows? We are not deprived in the least. On my way to the pool.

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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 05:37 PM   #53
 
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Beware the straw poll. *Folks that are smug--and rightly so--about their achievements might be more likely to participate. *Why participate if you have a depressingly negative net worth and are here for research purposes?

It's sorta like the "Post a Picture of You Posting" thread. *You sure didn't see a photo of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba
Something doesn't add up. We seem to have a large fraction of people in this
group with net worth in the area of $2 million...
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:09 PM   #54
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Yes, Jarhead that makes alot of sense. Being 20 years younger than either JG or Unclemick, my
family obligations are very different. Still, based on past posts from these two, I suspect that we
share a common pride in being called cheap b**tards.

tozz is right to warn about the selection effects in such surveys but the $2 million number caught
my interest since that looks to be about my threshold to FIRE with a 3.5-4% SWR. Do I interpret
this that the majority of posters are running closer to 200/day?

Zorba

P.S. DanTien. Is a survey on SWR's far behind?

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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:28 PM   #55
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

I am not retired. My daily burn rate is about $125. This does not count saving. I don't think $100 in retirement would be any problem at all. I'm sure I could go lower without much pain.
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:41 PM   #56
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba
P.S.. DanTien. Is a survey on SWR's far behind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
requiring me to wed SWR to a retirement calculator.
Zorba - Sorry man, I've been out of the loop on some of the posts and the lingo being used.

Is unclemick trying to marry a Single Woman Retiree(FIRE I guess) (why must a calculator be involved? )? That's not right...

Do you want a poll on who wants to Marry a Single Woman Retiree (not mentioning a calculator)? as a means to achieving married and FIRE bliss?
Or how about this one: Are you willing to marry a SWR or SMR ,it really makes no difference as long as there is enough FI involved Poll?
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:50 PM   #57
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Dan - old buddy - you have just inadvertently stepped on the proverbial landmine.

SWR(safe withdrawal rate) is the stuff of legend on this forum, source of endless debate, and the holder of record - as in number of pages of posting. Not to mention - a favorite subject of one who was banned(no names please).

How much can you safely withdraw from your retirement portfolio without going bankrupt in retirement. Goggle retirement calculators on the web - or not.

Heh, heh, heh.
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:53 PM   #58
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Dan - old buddy - you have just inadvertently stepped on the proverbial landmine.

SWR(safe withdrawal rate) is the stuff of legend on this forum, source of endless debate, and the holder of record - as in number of pages of posting. Not to mention - a favorite subject of one who was banned(no names please).

How much can you safely withdraw from your retirement portfolio without going bankrupt in retirement. Goggle retirement calculators on the web - or not.

Heh, heh, heh.
I'm so silly sometimes. Thanks for straightening(sp?) that and me out.
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 06:58 PM   #59
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

I must say, I'm one of the whopping two people who fell into the 25-50k category. But I'm practically just starting out, so I don't feel too bad, yet.
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Re: Your Current Net Worth
Old 07-28-2005, 07:07 PM   #60
 
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Re: Your Current Net Worth

Quote:
Beware the straw poll. Folks that are smug--and rightly so--about their achievements might be more likely to participate. Why participate if you have a depressingly negative net worth and are here for research purposes?

It's sorta like the "Post a Picture of You Posting" thread. You sure didn't see a photo of me.
In other words, it's only us hunky studs (Dory, Cut-throat, and Me) who posted our pictures?

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